Jotul F500 replacing VC Defiant

[claydogg84]

So I've been for the most part silently lurking these forums trying to ease my mind, but I still have some doubts. Let me start with the situation. I bought a house last year, picked up an old Vermont Casting Defiant Parlor stove off Craigslist. Loved this beast from the start - Puts off tremendous heat and takes huge chunks of wood with no issues. The problem was I "rigged" the piping into my masonry chimney which led to problems (10-15 gallons of creosote and a chimney fire that I didn't even know about). So this season I did it right. Installed the best 8" oval SS flex liner I could find, poured insulation around it, and installed a cap(didn't have one before). So... In the process of moving the stove somehow I got a decent crack in the base heading into the firebox. We were actually very careful with this beast and didn't drop it hard at all so I'm not sure how the crack happened. To avoid any potential issues as the stove runs 24/7 in the winter months (I'm in NY), I decided to take the plunge and buy a new stove. I ended up going with the Jotul F500 because the F600 just wouldn't fit in my fireplace opening. My concerns are that I'm going to be disappointed with the output compared to the Defiant as the Jotul seems so much smaller. And also, my house is around 2,000 sq ft which is the max for this stove. Lastly - the 8" oval liner I installed is never coming out of the chimney, and the dealer assured me the Jotul will run fine on it. What do you guys think? If nothing else, just ease my mind as I'll be picking up and installing the Jotul on Saturday.

 

[begreen]

The Jotul Oslo is going to be an entirely different burning experience. It's a great stove, but give yourself a month or two to learn it. At the end of the day, the Defiant may end up as the more radiant stove, but the Oslo will put out the btus and with burning less wood. Or get a larger stove like the Quad Isle Royale or Jotul F55.

 

[Simonkenton]

Is that 8 inch pipe going to work with the Oslo? Seems to me like it won't.

 

[begreen]

Depends, it might if it is tall enough.

 

[claydogg84]

It's about 21' of 8" oval. And this was the biggest stove I could fit in my fireplace opening. I have a 28 1/2" tall opening, so I had to purchase the short leg kit as well.

 

[fraxinus]

Perhaps the excessive creosote was a result of the stove pipe set up, but the usual reason for this with the old Defiants was running the stove with too little air. These stoves put out so much heat that the natural tendency was to shut down the air contol which created a smoldering fire and lots and lots of creosote. I replaced my old Defiant with the Jotul F600 five years ago and had the same concern about heat output. Granted, the Oslo is a smaller stove, but I don't think you have anthing to worry about especially since you seem to have found the Defiant's output somewhat too much.

I would second begreen's comment about a learning curve. The old Defiants were fine with less than ideally seasoned wood. The EPA Jotul stoves are not. They need wood of about 20% moisture content for ideal operation and can be difficult to start, especially in the fall and spring. An 8" flue should be fine. I've had no problems with the F600 on a nominal 8 x 12 flue in a 35 foot chimney.

 

[claydogg84]

The person I had come "sweep" the chimney said my issue was the way the firebox (area above damper before flue tiles start, not sure on name) was not built correctly and the smoke was getting stuck there too long. I had put the Defiant on the hearth extension to a T pipe and then straight into the damper. I just made the outlet of the T oval to fit through the damper. I sealed off around the pipe that went through the damper framing but I knew what I was doing was a temporary one year thing. The defiant is running so much better with the new 8" liner I put in, it's really a shame for me to be replacing it without getting to feel its real potential this winter. My wood is plenty seasoned - at least 1 1/2 years split and stacked before I get to it while some of it is in the 2 year mark.

 

[claydogg84]

I could use a few more opinions regarding the heat output compared to the old Defiant. Or for that matter anyone that upgraded from an older stove to the Oslo. Picking it up in the morning and honestly I'm more nervous about not being enough when really I should be excited considering the price.

 

[Michael Golden]

I have a oslo, and it throws a ton of heat. Never had VC though so I can't compare the two.

 

[jotul8e2]

I have a oslo, and it throws a ton of heat....

But like the man said, you must have dry wood. My first year I had wood that was "dry enough" and it was fairly miserable. The second year I had wood that was fairly seasoned, and it was ok. Now I have have fully seasoned wood and can easily heat my 2500 sq. ft. house down to ambient temperatures of about 10 deg. f.

 

[Toploader]

I ran an old Defiant for years and now an Oslo, although in different locations. The Defiant can produce more heat than the Oslo but the difference is minimal. The Oslo is a superior stove in so many ways and can really pump out the heat. In order to get the most out of it, of course dry wood is crucial, but also using wood that is 22-24 inches long is a must to make the most of the firebox size and get long burn times.
I'm surprised that your Defiant fit a 28 1/2" high opening, my recollection of that stove is that it was at least as tall as the F600 if not taller.

 

[claydogg84]

My wood is plenty dry, I'm worried about the size as I have big splits for my Defiant. Hopefully I can run at least 1 big split with a few smaller ones.

 

[claydogg84]

Also, I made custom feet(for the defiant) to make it fit in my current location. It wasn't a big deal because unlike most new stoves it has no ash pan.

 

[Toploader]

My wood is plenty dry, I'm worried about the size as I have big splits for my Defiant. Hopefully I can run at least 1 big split with a few smaller ones.

Yes, you shouldn't have a problem there, the height advantage of the Defiant's fire box is the biggest difference between the two but if you are just talking about a single large split or two then any split that fits into the Defiant will fit into the Oslo.

 

[claydogg84]

Got it in today, just started my first break in burn.

 

[Michael Golden]

Got it in today, just started my first break in burn.

Looks great! Enjoy it.....l

 

[RSNovi]

Nice looking setup!

 

[claydogg84]

Thanks guys.

 

[Toploader]

Looks really nice, I love the fact that it's raised up off the floor that'll make side door loading really easy.

 

[claydogg84]

Any of you guys mind giving me some tips on getting the Oslo up to temp? I don't think I could over fire this stove if I wanted to. The only way I was able to get it up to 550 was to leave the side door cracked for 10 minutes or so. I thought it would warm up with a good fire and the air completely open but no. Slowly crawls up to temp but it would take forever. I'm also doing this from scratch, no coals, so that may have something to do with it. And for the secondary burn, will they only kick in when I knock the air down?

 

[Toploader]

Leaving the door open a bit for ten minutes or so, cold start only, is very common with this stove because it isn't an "easy breather". I do it every time I do a cold start, I don't even think about not doing it. Using a timer is a really good idea because it can get away from you if you leave it too long.
Yes the secondaries do kick in once the air is cut back. I think cutting back the air is an individual thing based on the stove and chimney set up, with mine, on a good load of dry wood I'll start moving the air back bit by bit at about 400 if it seems like the fire is really building, by the time the stove top reaches 500 I have the air control all the way back, this way the load will last a little longer for me. For you it sounds like letting the stove get a bit hotter before dialling back the air is the way to go but of course after a few weeks of using the stove you'll have this figured out.
This stove very controllable and reliable so leaving the door open a crack on start up is a minor inconvenience that I'm happy to put up with.
Good luck figuring it out and don't hesitate to ask any other questions you might have.

 

[RSNovi]

I have to be careful with my Oslo not to over fire. I have come into the stove room a few times with that dreaded hot smell. Hitting 750 is not an issue with my setup.

I agree that I always use the side door cracked open to get the fir going. Once it has taken off after about 10 minutes the stove will be fine with the door shut. It will hit 400 usually within a half hour.

 

[claydogg84]

What temp are you running the stove to with the door cracked? My thermometer is on the top right. The defiant I had it in and middle and I would get that to 600, close the damper and the second air port - would cruise at 550 for a couple hours and then slowly taper off.

 

[Toploader]

I'm thinking around 350 or so but I go more by what the fire looks like and whether or not l'm in a hurry to get the stove up to temp or not. The sooner you close the door the longer it takes to get up to temp but it will eventually get there. Keep the thermometer on the right back corner not in the middle like you did for the Defiant.

 

[claydogg84]

Should I be trying to get the stove warm with a big roaring fire? Or should I get a good fire going in the firebox and start shutting down the air to trigger the secondaries? This stove is so much different than my Defiant and it's making me second guess the purchase.