Kinetic vs hydraulic

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Bad LP

Minister of Fire
Nov 28, 2014
1,796
Northern Maine
I like watching them on YouTube. Dont the gears and rod wear out pretty quickly?

There is a rack, a pinon and the pinon shaft. I haven't heard anything about people wearing them out but I do run high pressure grease on the rack. It is all rather slow moving. Think of an arbor press on its back. The Chinese stuff was busting teeth and I don't know about the DR but the DR and the SS are very close to each other in cost at the end of the day.
 

Ashful

Minister of Fire
Mar 7, 2012
15,717
Philadelphia
Another factor folks should keep in mind, in reference to the fast cycle hydraulics (eg. 6 second Iron and Oak, mentioned earlier), is that the faster hydraulics can have much less power than their slower brethren. I used the 22-ton 6 second I&O many times, and stalled it in knotty stuff numerous times, but I've never stalled or stopped my much slower 22-ton 11 second Huskee. It takes more horsepower and torque to drive those high-volume pumps to the same pressure you get out of a 11 gpm pump.

triptester has already traveled this road, so need for me to completely re-state it here: https://www.hearth.com/talk/threads/new-huskee-22-ton-cycle-time.128296/
 
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VirginiaIron

Minister of Fire
Dec 19, 2013
1,086
Central Virginia
Another factor folks should keep in mind, in reference to the fast cycle hydraulics (eg. 6 second Iron and Oak, mentioned earlier), is that the faster hydraulics can have much less power than their slower brethren. I used the 22-ton 6 second I&O many times, and stalled it in knotty stuff numerous times, but I've never stalled or stopped my much slower 22-ton 11 second Huskee. It takes more horsepower and torque to drive those high-volume pumps to the same pressure you get out of a 11 gpm pump.

triptester has already traveled this road, so need for me to completely re-state it here: https://www.hearth.com/talk/threads/new-huskee-22-ton-cycle-time.128296/
On my homemade splitter, when I removed one of my 3/8 hoses I found the hose only had about a 1/16" opening in both fittings. I have a two stage 11gpm? pump and I was happy with the cycle time. But now that I am renovating the splitter I think I will remove that restrictor hose and see how much faster it is.
 

jetsam

Minister of Fire
Dec 12, 2015
5,283
Long Island, NY
youtu.be
Another factor folks should keep in mind, in reference to the fast cycle hydraulics (eg. 6 second Iron and Oak, mentioned earlier), is that the faster hydraulics can have much less power than their slower brethren. I used the 22-ton 6 second I&O many times, and stalled it in knotty stuff numerous times, but I've never stalled or stopped my much slower 22-ton 11 second Huskee. It takes more horsepower and torque to drive those high-volume pumps to the same pressure you get out of a 11 gpm pump.

triptester has already traveled this road, so need for me to completely re-state it here: https://www.hearth.com/talk/threads/new-huskee-22-ton-cycle-time.128296/

That was a bit of a surprise to me when I was shopping for splitters. I had a chance to get a slightly banged up DHT 27 ton at the same price as a new DHT 22. Sounded great, but after a little research I wound up going with the 22 (because they're the same pump and engine, and it's cheaper to add a log catcher to the 22 than it is to put a new cylinder on the 27 to get cycle times back down where I wanted them).
 

jetsam

Minister of Fire
Dec 12, 2015
5,283
Long Island, NY
youtu.be
Some spec sheet numbers from DHT, because they show the differences in cycle time between different cylinder, pump, and engine sizes.

SmartSelectImage_2017-03-28-16-16-19.png
SmartSelectImage_2017-03-28-16-16-46.png
SmartSelectImage_2017-03-28-16-17-06.png
SmartSelectImage_2017-03-28-16-17-24.png
 
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saewoody

Feeling the Heat
Feb 15, 2017
456
CT
Saewoody are you any closer to figuring out what you need?

Well I have certainly gotten some good information and points for both sides of the argument. I appreciate all the info everyone has contributed. I believe I will have an opportunity in the near future to try out a super splitter due to a generous offer from somebody here on the forum! That will certainly help me to make a decision.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
 
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Tar12

Minister of Fire
Dec 9, 2016
1,734
Indiana
Well I have certainly gotten some good information and points for both sides of the argument. I appreciate all the info everyone has contributed. I believe I will have an opportunity in the near future to try out a super splitter due to a generous offer from somebody here on the forum! That will certainly help me to make a decision.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
There isn't a better way than to try a product! Find some of the nastiest stuff that you encounter and give it a whirl! I hope it works for you...I wish I had access to enough small stuff...I would have one myself!
 
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woodhog73

Minister of Fire
Jan 12, 2016
780
Somewhere cold !
You could always splurge for a $200 dollar Gransfors Bruks maul. Ya that's right $200 for a splitting axe / maul. It goes as fast as you can swing it.

I'm getting old. Closer to 50 than 40. But if I HAD to I could still hand split faster than any splitter around. So could 90 percent of the readers on this forum. Put a 24 inch round inside a car tire on the ground, get me real angry, and there ain't no splitter on the planet that's gonna destroy that 24 inch round faster LOL :)

Now it might not be good for you though. I recommend having good health insurance and a good chiropractor if you choose this direction.
 
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Ashful

Minister of Fire
Mar 7, 2012
15,717
Philadelphia
You could always splurge for a $200 dollar Gransfors Bruks maul. Ya that's right $200 for a splitting axe / maul. It goes as fast as you can swing it.

I'm getting old. Closer to 50 than 40. But if I HAD to I could still hand split faster than any splitter around. So could 90 percent of the readers on this forum. Put a 24 inch round inside a car tire on the ground, get me real angry, and there ain't no splitter on the planet that's gonna destroy that 24 inch round faster LOL :)

Now it might not be good for you though. I recommend having good health insurance and a good chiropractor if you choose this direction.

I grew up splitting by hand, but my parents burned maybe only 3 cords per year. When I got back into wood heating six years ago, I went back to splitting by hand, and really enjoyed it at first. But the 10 - 14 cords per year I was trying to split caused me all sorts of shoulder trouble.

I still enjoyed splitting by hand, so I settled into a routine of splitting as much as I could by hand, and then renting a splitter once per year to play catch up. That was still beating me up, so I eventually broke down and purchased my own splitter.

Now, maybe type or three years later, my shoulders still have not recovered 100% from the abuse I put on them those few years, and I'm not sure they ever will. You only get one body to destroy, and I'd rather cause that damage via more pleasurable pursuits.
 
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jetsam

Minister of Fire
Dec 12, 2015
5,283
Long Island, NY
youtu.be
Now, maybe type or three years later, my shoulders still have not recovered 100% from the abuse I put on them those few years, and I'm not sure they ever will. You only get one body to destroy, and I'd rather cause that damage via more pleasurable pursuits.

I actually find that splitting the easy stuff by maul causes me less pain than lifting all those rounds up onto the splitter (or crouching in front of it in vertical mode). I split nowhere near what you do (maybe 6 cords last year, but it'll be more like 3/yr once I am done playing catchup and have a few years laid in).

Agreed that I need all those parts to work for fun stuff!
 

woodhog73

Minister of Fire
Jan 12, 2016
780
Somewhere cold !
But the 10 - 14 cords per year I was trying to split caused me all sorts of shoulder trouble.

You must be heating with wood full time or close to it ? That's a lot of firewood to process by hand. No way at my age would I attempt to hand split 10 plus cords of hardwood a year. No doubt a splitter was / is worth it's weight in gold in your case.

I only burn roughly 2 cord a winter. So I'm ok with slow splitters. However 2 other family households heat with wood in my immediate family and we harvest in a good year 20 cords of oak, maple, and birch and in some years over 30. Thanks to the families farm and it's thirsty outdoor boiler which will consume a cord a week in the coldest temperatures . But I only help them cut I don't split for them. They use a power take off splitter attached to one of the farm tractors and it splits pretty fast. Not sure how fast but much better than my little 22 ton
 

Ashful

Minister of Fire
Mar 7, 2012
15,717
Philadelphia
You must be heating with wood full time or close to it ? That's a lot of firewood to process by hand.
lol... are you new here? j/k

My house is not what one would call "efficient". I was previously burning 6 - 8 cords of wood per year, offset by 1000 - 1400 gallons oil, plus running two heat pumps. I was splitting 10 - 14 cords per year, trying to get 3 years ahead, at that usage rate.

With my new stoves and burning habits, I it looks like my usage may be lower in the future. We will see!
 

saewoody

Feeling the Heat
Feb 15, 2017
456
CT
You could always splurge for a $200 dollar Gransfors Bruks maul. Ya that's right $200 for a splitting axe / maul. It goes as fast as you can swing it.

I'm getting old. Closer to 50 than 40. But if I HAD to I could still hand split faster than any splitter around. So could 90 percent of the readers on this forum. Put a 24 inch round inside a car tire on the ground, get me real angry, and there ain't no splitter on the planet that's gonna destroy that 24 inch round faster LOL :)

Now it might not be good for you though. I recommend having good health insurance and a good chiropractor if you choose this direction.

I always think to myself that I would like to split most of my wood by hand, but I know I can't "run" nearly as long as a splitter can! That and my wife says I'm crazy to even think about it. And I do get concerned about how it might break down the body over time.

It's kind of like when I bought my house 13 years ago and came home with a brand new reel push mower for the nearly 1/2 acre lawn. I figured I was 25 years old and that would help keep me in great shape. My wife said I was crazy and talked me into returning it and getting a modern mower. Well I did, and even that took close to 90 minutes to mow the lawn if I was bagging. I quickly upgraded to an old 36" commercial walk behind mower. Cut my mowing time in half! The idea of staying in shape is great. Actually accomplishing what you want/need to as quickly as possible is even better.


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BrotherBart

Modesterator
Staff member
Got over hand splitting in 1988 and bought that spllter. Now at age 70 I credit it for me being able to be age 70.
 

BrotherBart

Modesterator
Staff member
And cycle times only impress me if they are slow. The reason I still have two hands.
 

TreePointer

Minister of Fire
Sep 22, 2010
3,122
PA
I enjoyed hand splitting when I was younger and felt good after the workout. I did reach a point in which the time saved using an hydraulic splitter was more valuable to me than the workout. Fast forward years later--after a separated shoulder, rotator cuff surgery, and one elbow injury (all from other activities), a power splitter is just plain smart.
 

Ashful

Minister of Fire
Mar 7, 2012
15,717
Philadelphia
And cycle times only impress me if they are slow. The reason I still have two hands.
You haven't seen my hotrod splitter thread? I'm working up plans to upgrade your Huskee 22-ton. Currently debating 6 inches per second vs. 8 inches per second, and the horsepower / physical motor size implications.
 

VirginiaIron

Minister of Fire
Dec 19, 2013
1,086
Central Virginia
You could always splurge for a $200 dollar Gransfors Bruks maul. Ya that's right $200 for a splitting axe / maul. It goes as fast as you can swing it.

I'm getting old. Closer to 50 than 40. But if I HAD to I could still hand split faster than any splitter around. So could 90 percent of the readers on this forum. Put a 24 inch round inside a car tire on the ground, get me real angry, and there ain't no splitter on the planet that's gonna destroy that 24 inch round faster LOL :)

Now it might not be good for you though. I recommend having good health insurance and a good chiropractor if you choose this direction.
I recently felled some small/medium sized dead standing trees and it was nice to take the maul and split them in no time. It was certainly faster than my splitter.
 

VirginiaIron

Minister of Fire
Dec 19, 2013
1,086
Central Virginia
You haven't seen my hotrod splitter thread? I'm working up plans to upgrade your Huskee 22-ton. Currently debating 6 inches per second vs. 8 inches per second, and the horsepower / physical motor size implications.

Do you have a link?
 

Jags

Moderate Moderator
Staff member
Aug 2, 2006
18,288
Northern IL
One of my often repeated comments on this forum...
The time to get a splitter is BEFORE you wreck yourself.
I do value a timely splitter. My big boy runs a big bore (5") and I do find myself waiting for the return stroke fairly often. Currently splitting a batch of hackberry that requires full stroke for each split (stringy). Yes - I wish my splitter had a faster stroke, but not looking for one that slams the wood into the wedge. I believe there is a happy medium somewhere in there, but that might be different for each person due to the variables in what is being processed.
 
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Ashful

Minister of Fire
Mar 7, 2012
15,717
Philadelphia
One of my often repeated comments on this forum...
The time to get a splitter is BEFORE you wreck yourself.
I do value a timely splitter. My big boy runs a big bore (5") and I do find myself waiting for the return stroke fairly often. Currently splitting a batch of hackberry that requires full stroke for each split (stringy). Yes - I wish my splitter had a faster stroke, but not looking for one that slams the wood into the wedge. I believe there is a happy medium somewhere in there, but that might be different for each person due to the variables in what is being processed.
Have you shopped 3-stage pumps, or thought about paralleling up multiple 2-stage pumps with the required reliefs between them, to get 3 or 4 speeds?
 

Ashful

Minister of Fire
Mar 7, 2012
15,717
Philadelphia
Do you have a link?
Started as me shopping for something faster, but quickly turned to some math on upgrading what I already own:
https://www.hearth.com/talk/threads/fast-cycle-vertical-splitter.161493/#post-2170268

I will post a full bloody thread on the thing, if I end up doing this. I'm currently leaning toward 22 GPM, which should give me 7 second cycle time. I could go faster, but one does wonder about liability if you build the fastest splitter on earth, and it ends up hurting someone. At 7 seconds, I'm right in the middle of the pack on the best fast-cycle commercial hydraulic splitters.
 

Jags

Moderate Moderator
Staff member
Aug 2, 2006
18,288
Northern IL
Have you shopped 3-stage pumps, or thought about paralleling up multiple 2-stage pumps with the required reliefs between them, to get 3 or 4 speeds?
Naa - no need for the complications. A 28GPM pump on a 5" bore will have similar (if not slightly faster) cycle times as a 22 gpm pump on a 4" bore. About perfect in my eyes.
 
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blades

Minister of Fire
Nov 23, 2008
3,679
WI, Leroy
Hydro speed is all about how fast you can fill and empty the cylinder- biggest short circuit is a lot of the cylinders commonly used are 1/2" ports. My valve is 3/4" ports so somewhere in the future if when the cylinder goes it will be replaced by a 3/4" port cylinder- I am sure there is a whole lot of math figures to arrive at the possible decrease in time of ram travel. Likely doesn't amount to much but it also takes one more restriction point out. Yep I know the output of the pump with its 1/2" port is finite ( in this case 11gpm on a 8hp briggs). I all ready have HI-flow fittings.
 

VirginiaIron

Minister of Fire
Dec 19, 2013
1,086
Central Virginia
Started as me shopping for something faster, but quickly turned to some math on upgrading what I already own:
https://www.hearth.com/talk/threads/fast-cycle-vertical-splitter.161493/#post-2170268

I will post a full bloody thread on the thing, if I end up doing this. I'm currently leaning toward 22 GPM, which should give me 7 second cycle time. I could go faster, but one does wonder about liability if you build the fastest splitter on earth, and it ends up hurting someone. At 7 seconds, I'm right in the middle of the pack on the best fast-cycle commercial hydraulic splitters.

I am hoping that my second modification will take care of the 40-50 inch rounds if/when I get them :)