KT302 Blaze King New guy

[North of 60]

everyone I talk to in Alaska here says BLAZE KING is the best..
Ray

Not sure what your getting at Ray. Does all the new BK,s suck then. 90% of there line up is all catalytic. Its not just old school. Only two of there new stove styles that are EPA are non cat. The Briarwood II and and the Royal Guardian 3001. Check it out.
this may help. http://www.blazeking.com/wood-stoves.html
Cheers
N of 60

 

[greythorn3]

oh its gonna be done safe, but there will be no inspection.. its not required where i live. i dont know why but everyone at the dealer i talked to said that that cats dont really work well in alaska..

Ray

 

[Gooserider]

oh its gonna be done safe, but there will be no inspection.. its not required where i live. i dont know why but everyone at the dealer i talked to said that that cats dont really work well in alaska..

Ray

Well, you might ask how many models of cat stove does that dealer have on his showroom floor??? %-P I will admit to being somewhat underwhelmed by my VC cat, but I have not seen anybody complaining about the BK cat stoves... They are not a high popularity brand as best I can tell, but all of our posters that have them seem to be in the far north, and are very happy with them... I'd ask the dealer what's different about the wood in AK that would keep a stove from working there that works well in Candada?

Gooserider

 

[greythorn3]

oh its gonna be done safe, but there will be no inspection.. its not required where i live. i dont know why but everyone at the dealer i talked to said that that cats dont really work well in alaska..

Ray

Well, you might ask how many models of cat stove does that dealer have on his showroom floor??? %-P I will admit to being somewhat underwhelmed by my VC cat, but I have not seen anybody complaining about the BK cat stoves... They are not a high popularity brand as best I can tell, but all of our posters that have them seem to be in the far north, and are very happy with them... I'd ask the dealer what's different about the wood in AK that would keep a stove from working there that works well in Candada?

Gooserider

ya now that you meantion it all he had was LOPI stoves and NONE were cat stoves........ he is the same guy that said 8" pipe is extinct that 6" is the new size.. all his stoves had 6" pipes too!

Ray

 

[Gooserider]

oh its gonna be done safe, but there will be no inspection.. its not required where i live. i dont know why but everyone at the dealer i talked to said that that cats dont really work well in alaska..

Ray

Well, you might ask how many models of cat stove does that dealer have on his showroom floor??? %-P I will admit to being somewhat underwhelmed by my VC cat, but I have not seen anybody complaining about the BK cat stoves... They are not a high popularity brand as best I can tell, but all of our posters that have them seem to be in the far north, and are very happy with them... I'd ask the dealer what's different about the wood in AK that would keep a stove from working there that works well in Candada?

Gooserider

ya now that you meantion it all he had was LOPI stoves and NONE were cat stoves........ he is the same guy that said 8" pipe is extinct that 6" is the new size.. all his stoves had 6" pipes too!

Ray

Do you expect the local Ford dealer to tell you how smart you'd be to get a Chevy? - Same deal... :coolgrin: FWIW, I know that one of our currently happy BK owners replaced a smaller stove that he didn't find adequate to his needs, IIRC it was a LOPI, but I may be wrong on that detail...

A lot of the BK's are really big heat makers compared to the average on the market, as such they may tend towards overkill in our end of the world, where we don't have such extreme heating demands. Another factor is that I understand most of your wood supply tends to be softwoods, because that is what grows up there, while we tend more towards oak, maple and other hardwoods... Because hardwoods are denser, we can get away with a smaller firebox, where softwood burners need to have a larger capacity to get a long burn time...

This is why I think most of our BK people tend to be in the far north, as the stove designs are better suited for that environment.

Gooserider


Gooserider

 

[greythorn3]

oh its gonna be done safe, but there will be no inspection.. its not required where i live. i dont know why but everyone at the dealer i talked to said that that cats dont really work well in alaska..

Ray

Well, you might ask how many models of cat stove does that dealer have on his showroom floor??? %-P I will admit to being somewhat underwhelmed by my VC cat, but I have not seen anybody complaining about the BK cat stoves... They are not a high popularity brand as best I can tell, but all of our posters that have them seem to be in the far north, and are very happy with them... I'd ask the dealer what's different about the wood in AK that would keep a stove from working there that works well in Candada?

Gooserider

ya now that you meantion it all he had was LOPI stoves and NONE were cat stoves........ he is the same guy that said 8" pipe is extinct that 6" is the new size.. all his stoves had 6" pipes too!

Ray

Do you expect the local Ford dealer to tell you how smart you'd be to get a Chevy? - Same deal... :coolgrin: FWIW, I know that one of our currently happy BK owners replaced a smaller stove that he didn't find adequate to his needs, IIRC it was a LOPI, but I may be wrong on that detail...

A lot of the BK's are really big heat makers compared to the average on the market, as such they may tend towards overkill in our end of the world, where we don't have such extreme heating demands. Another factor is that I understand most of your wood supply tends to be softwoods, because that is what grows up there, while we tend more towards oak, maple and other hardwoods... Because hardwoods are denser, we can get away with a smaller firebox, where softwood burners need to have a larger capacity to get a long burn time...

This is why I think most of our BK people tend to be in the far north, as the stove designs are better suited for that environment.

Gooserider


Gooserider

Heck that makes perfect sense! thanks for bringing it to light.. i know when its between -20f and -30F for a week straight my boiler has a hard time keeping my entire residence at 65F! hehehe the woodstove will be a great addition to them times and evenings when we wana get warm..

Ray

 

[greythorn3]

is it best to run the single wall all the way to the ceiling then doublel wall in the attic all the way to the cap on top?


Ray

 

[Wet1]

Goose,

Near as I can tell, it's pretty hard to compare a VC cat stove to a BK cat stove. I've never heard any rave reviews about the VC cats, but I don't think I've ever heard a bad thing about the BK cats... just lots and lots of praise.

I believe the person you were referring to that recently replaced his smaller stove with a BK might be Rich L. If so, he's gone through a handful of stoves in the last year trying to find something that will heat is drafty old house in MA. I believe this includes the Woodstock Fireview and Classic, Hearthstone II and Mansfield, and the P.E. Summit. I think the previous stove before the BKK the Woodstock Fireview, which I think he returned back to Woodstock after using it for months and found it didn't meet his needs. The BKK seems to have done the trick.

There actually many BK owners in the lower 48 states. I personally know of 4 BK owners in CT and MA alone, and many more here on the forum. Despite being a big heater, the BK cat stoves are very flexible. In fact, you can generally get them to burn lower then many traditional secondary burn EPA stoves since they have an automatic thermostat and cat. This coupled with the large firebox is why the BKK is capable of burning over 40 hours on a single load of wood. Testing has shown the BK will burn cleanly at a 7000 btu average output and do so for up to a couple days on a single load, this is something you just can't do in other stoves, especially a non-cat stove. So while Wolkkiller can heat his 2500 sq ft place in North Pole with outside temps down to -45°F with only a BK King, that same stove is able to heat a much smaller area in the lower 48 in much more mild conditions w/o blasting the owners out of the house. Is it overkill to install a BKK in a <1500 sq ft home in the lower 48? Sure, but it's flexable enough to do so w/o blasting the owner out. The BK might not be the prettest girl on the block, but its certainly one of the most flexaible and funtional stoves on the market... IMO, it doesn't have an equal when it comes to all around performance.

Greythorn,
Your BK will produce some massive heat when called to do so, but it will not burn low and long like the newer BK cats. But if you need heat, that stove should be capable of generating in spades... just be ready to go through massive amounts of wood keeping it fed.

BTW, I would use double wall pipe all the way up. This will keep your flue cleaner and it offers an increased safety margin.

 

[Gooserider]

Goose,

Near as I can tell, it's pretty hard to compare a VC cat stove to a BK cat stove. I've never heard any rave reviews about the VC cats, but I don't think I've ever heard a bad thing about the BK cats... just lots and lots of praise.

I believe the person you were referring to that recently replaced his smaller stove with a BK might be Rich L. If so, he's gone through a handful of stoves in the last year trying to find something that will heat is drafty old house in MA. I believe this includes the Woodstock Fireview and Classic, Hearthstone II and Mansfield, and the P.E. Summit. I think the previous stove before the BKK the Woodstock Fireview, which I think he returned back to Woodstock after using it for months and found it didn't meet his needs. The BKK seems to have done the trick.

There actually many BK owners in the lower 48 states. I personally know of 4 BK owners in CT and MA alone, and many more here on the forum. Despite being a big heater, the BK cat stoves are very flexible. In fact, you can generally get them to burn lower then many traditional secondary burn EPA stoves since they have an automatic thermostat and cat. This coupled with the large firebox is why the BKK is capable of burning over 40 hours on a single load of wood. Testing has shown the BK will burn cleanly at a 7000 btu average output and do so for up to a couple days on a single load, this is something you just can't do in other stoves, especially a non-cat stove. So while Wolkkiller can heat his 2500 sq ft place in North Pole with outside temps down to -45°F with only a BK King, that same stove is able to heat a much smaller area in the lower 48 in much more mild conditions w/o blasting the owners out of the house. Is it overkill to install a BKK in a <1500 sq ft home in the lower 48? Sure, but it's flexable enough to do so w/o blasting the owner out. The BK might not be the prettest girl on the block, but its certainly one of the most flexaible and funtional stoves on the market... IMO, it doesn't have an equal when it comes to all around performance.

Greythorn,
Your BK will produce some massive heat when called to do so, but it will not burn low and long like the newer BK cats. But if you need heat, that stove should be capable of generating in spades... just be ready to go through massive amounts of wood keeping it fed.

BTW, I would use double wall pipe all the way up. This will keep your flue cleaner and it offers an increased safety margin.

You'll get no arguement from me on that, I haven't been spending all that much time in the Hearthroom lately, as I'm more interested in trying to get a boiler setup at this point. It just seems the people I recall w/ BK's in their sigs seemed to live in the far North, but I could easily be missing a few folks...

On the pipe question it's a tradeoff - you also don't want to be running double wall through the attic... You need to be in CLASS A, chimney pipe as soon as you get to a ceiling or wall, or anything that will be boxed in where you can't readily see the pipe exterior... "Double Wall" is connector pipe, that can only be used in the same space the stove is in. Using single wall connector pipe in the room with the stove will get you a bit more heat output, as the pipe becomes a radiant surface, but this will cool your smoke and give you less draft and more creosote buildup. Double wall will give less heat, but also build up less creosote - given the pre-epa nature of that stove, I'd probably be inclined to go with double wall, but could be persuaded to use either... Definitely you want to make sure to keep your cleaning requirements in mind when designing your setup, as you will probably be needing to clean often....

Gooserider

 

[Bigg_Redd]

ok sorry i forgot about htis, well ive burned it in my back yard to get he old crap out heres some pics of it, still looking for 8 in stove pipe and recomendations of taking out my fireplace to put this wood stove in its place.. heres my wood stove and heres my fireplace i wanna take out to put the wood stove there.. im gonna make the hearth go to the floor so the wood stove can sit on it... also im goign to increase the stone opening size.. this is a fireplace on a exterior wall with a outside chase for it.. please offer suggestions.. im all ears. ive started repainting the stove also..

Ray

Are you SURE that's not a CAT stove? BK has been making cat stoves in that configuration for 30+ years.

 

[BrotherBart]

Are you SURE that's not a CAT stove? BK has been making cat stoves in that configuration for 30+ years.

Nope. The only thing in the top of a 302 is a "smoke shelf".

 

[Wet1]

BB is right, that's not a cat model. BK is still using basically the same stove body today as they did back then... they've just changed the guts a little over the years (air wash, cat, etc) and altered the front door/vents.


Goose,
I hear you on the boiler. That's a move I'll probably make at some point if/when I start using more of the house in the winter... it's hard to move heat up four floors with a single space heater and two becomes a little more work.

 

[greythorn3]

godo info guys.. the total pipe length should be less then 20 feet and it will go STRAIGHT up!.. i would like to use single wall to get the heat off the pipe inside.. and its cheaper.. do you think with single wall i will have a draft problem with 15-20' of pipe straight up?

Ray

 

[greythorn3]

Also im not going to have any code people look at nothing...
Ray

There's that Alaska spirit! ;-)

Damn right we are still free around here!

 

[North of 60]

I dont think you are picking up what the rest are laying down for ya. Where is this single wall going?

 

[greythorn3]

from stove to right before it enters the ceiling? is that the correct way?

 

[firefighterjake]

. . .
Also im not going to have any code people look at nothing...


Ray

. . . Lastly, while I tend to share your distaste for code people and mandatory inspections etc. . .
Gooserider

We're not all bad people . . . some of us are actually quite friendly and more than happy to come up with other "acceptable means of protection" when the standard way of doing something doesn't quite work out for whatever reason.

By the way, Ray, are you right in Anchorage proper or in one of the "suburbs?" My sister lives in Portage with her husband and works at one of the local hospitals as a cardiac tech . . . loves it up there . . . she's still trying to convince me to come up and snowmobile . . . I mean snowmachine as you guys call it . . . in the winter. The summers I like just fine . . . I'm not so sure about the winters though . . . fantastic state to visit.

 

[Gooserider]

. . .
Also im not going to have any code people look at nothing...


Ray

. . . Lastly, while I tend to share your distaste for code people and mandatory inspections etc. . .
Gooserider

We're not all bad people . . . some of us are actually quite friendly and more than happy to come up with other "acceptable means of protection" when the standard way of doing something doesn't quite work out for whatever reason.

By the way, Ray, are you right in Anchorage proper or in one of the "suburbs?" My sister lives in Portage with her husband and works at one of the local hospitals as a cardiac tech . . . loves it up there . . . she's still trying to convince me to come up and snowmobile . . . I mean snowmachine as you guys call it . . . in the winter. The summers I like just fine . . . I'm not so sure about the winters though . . . fantastic state to visit.

It isn't the individuals I have a problem with, I'm sure most are nice, and I wouldn't mind having the metaphorical beer with them...

But I don't like the notion of the gov't telling you that you have to get their PERMISSION to work on your own property, and pay extra for the priviledge... Then having to pay for an inspection that in my experience adds little or no value to the job (I've found at least 4-5 significant violations in electrical and plumbing in our supposedly built to code and inspected house) AND knowing that the inspector will be returning to his office by way of the tax assessors office to tell him how much to jack up your rates (Our inspector has told us at Town Meeting that he sees that as one of his main functions!)

Indeed, in some cases it seems the rules have NOTHING to do with safety... The Mass Boiler Rules people just effectively prohibited Euro-boilers, and most US wood gasification boilers from being installed in the state as part of "closed" systems. They say that one must pay $800-1,000 or more extra for an ASME "H Stamp" model - Available from only two makers. The ASME standard for boilers doesn't even APPLY to modern design wood gasifiers other than in very general terms.... The Euro-boilers are built to the CE standard EN-303-5, which was written specifically for solid fuel boilers, and is comparable to or tougher than the ASME standard in most respects.... At the same time one is perfectly free to do a European style "Open" system where the boiler is pressurized by a water column. In theory if one had a tall enough house, you could have an "open" system that exceeded the boilers TEST pressure, completely within the rules....

Gooserider

 

[firefighterjake]

. . .
Also im not going to have any code people look at nothing...


Ray

. . . Lastly, while I tend to share your distaste for code people and mandatory inspections etc. . .
Gooserider

We're not all bad people . . . some of us are actually quite friendly and more than happy to come up with other "acceptable means of protection" when the standard way of doing something doesn't quite work out for whatever reason.

By the way, Ray, are you right in Anchorage proper or in one of the "suburbs?" My sister lives in Portage with her husband and works at one of the local hospitals as a cardiac tech . . . loves it up there . . . she's still trying to convince me to come up and snowmobile . . . I mean snowmachine as you guys call it . . . in the winter. The summers I like just fine . . . I'm not so sure about the winters though . . . fantastic state to visit.

It isn't the individuals I have a problem with, I'm sure most are nice, and I wouldn't mind having the metaphorical beer with them...

But I don't like the notion of the gov't telling you that you have to get their PERMISSION to work on your own property, and pay extra for the priviledge... Then having to pay for an inspection that in my experience adds little or no value to the job (I've found at least 4-5 significant violations in electrical and plumbing in our supposedly built to code and inspected house) AND knowing that the inspector will be returning to his office by way of the tax assessors office to tell him how much to jack up your rates (Our inspector has told us at Town Meeting that he sees that as one of his main functions!)

Indeed, in some cases it seems the rules have NOTHING to do with safety... The Mass Boiler Rules people just effectively prohibited Euro-boilers, and most US wood gasification boilers from being installed in the state as part of "closed" systems. They say that one must pay $800-1,000 or more extra for an ASME "H Stamp" model - Available from only two makers. The ASME standard for boilers doesn't even APPLY to modern design wood gasifiers other than in very general terms.... The Euro-boilers are built to the CE standard EN-303-5, which was written specifically for solid fuel boilers, and is comparable to or tougher than the ASME standard in most respects.... At the same time one is perfectly free to do a European style "Open" system where the boiler is pressurized by a water column. In theory if one had a tall enough house, you could have an "open" system that exceeded the boilers TEST pressure, completely within the rules....

Gooserider

I hear ya Goose . . . and understand completely . . . just one of the reasons I live where I live in the country and not in the City. And I too have seen Inspectors who really don't know a whole heckuva lot . . . kind of scary sometimes to see these folks in action . . . and don't get me going on all the permits that folks have to pay for . . . I never even realized that in the City where I work you have to pay to get a yard sale permit.

So my main question . . . what are you doing in Democratachusetts . . . your type of thinking is definitely not along the "State's" line of thinking.

 

[Gooserider]

. . .
Also im not going to have any code people look at nothing...


Ray

. . . Lastly, while I tend to share your distaste for code people and mandatory inspections etc. . .
Gooserider

We're not all bad people . . . some of us are actually quite friendly and more than happy to come up with other "acceptable means of protection" when the standard way of doing something doesn't quite work out for whatever reason.

By the way, Ray, are you right in Anchorage proper or in one of the "suburbs?" My sister lives in Portage with her husband and works at one of the local hospitals as a cardiac tech . . . loves it up there . . . she's still trying to convince me to come up and snowmobile . . . I mean snowmachine as you guys call it . . . in the winter. The summers I like just fine . . . I'm not so sure about the winters though . . . fantastic state to visit.

It isn't the individuals I have a problem with, I'm sure most are nice, and I wouldn't mind having the metaphorical beer with them...

But I don't like the notion of the gov't telling you that you have to get their PERMISSION to work on your own property, and pay extra for the priviledge... Then having to pay for an inspection that in my experience adds little or no value to the job (I've found at least 4-5 significant violations in electrical and plumbing in our supposedly built to code and inspected house) AND knowing that the inspector will be returning to his office by way of the tax assessors office to tell him how much to jack up your rates (Our inspector has told us at Town Meeting that he sees that as one of his main functions!)

Indeed, in some cases it seems the rules have NOTHING to do with safety... The Mass Boiler Rules people just effectively prohibited Euro-boilers, and most US wood gasification boilers from being installed in the state as part of "closed" systems. They say that one must pay $800-1,000 or more extra for an ASME "H Stamp" model - Available from only two makers. The ASME standard for boilers doesn't even APPLY to modern design wood gasifiers other than in very general terms.... The Euro-boilers are built to the CE standard EN-303-5, which was written specifically for solid fuel boilers, and is comparable to or tougher than the ASME standard in most respects.... At the same time one is perfectly free to do a European style "Open" system where the boiler is pressurized by a water column. In theory if one had a tall enough house, you could have an "open" system that exceeded the boilers TEST pressure, completely within the rules....

Gooserider

I hear ya Goose . . . and understand completely . . . just one of the reasons I live where I live in the country and not in the City. And I too have seen Inspectors who really don't know a whole heckuva lot . . . kind of scary sometimes to see these folks in action . . . and don't get me going on all the permits that folks have to pay for . . . I never even realized that in the City where I work you have to pay to get a yard sale permit.

So my main question . . . what are you doing in Democratachusetts . . . your type of thinking is definitely not along the "State's" line of thinking.

Long involved story, but bottom line summary of the present situation is that it's where the GF lives and works - she is in high tech, (Senior Software Engineer) and while we are supporters of the Free State Project she hasn't been able to find anything in her job class in NH or any of the other states that are similarly inclined... Given that she is by far the primary earner of the household, we aren't about to try to do the move until / unless she can find a job that will continue to support us in the lifestyle to which we have become accustomed.

Gooserider

 

[Todd]

godo info guys.. the total pipe length should be less then 20 feet and it will go STRAIGHT up!.. i would like to use single wall to get the heat off the pipe inside.. and its cheaper.. do you think with single wall i will have a draft problem with 15-20' of pipe straight up?

Ray

With a 15-20' chimney you should draft fine with single wall up to the ceiling support and class A chimney above that.

 

[greythorn3]

i believe the single wall will be a stretch less then 6' but then its 3 feet in the attic and another 2 feet higher then anything around it within 10 feet so that should make it about about 13 feet or so tall.. straight

ya them code guys dont care much about wood stoves here there is no inspection or permits required that i am aware of.. we just follow the clearances ont eh stove for our own saftey

Ray

 

[Todd]

If it's only 13' I think I'd go with double wall stove pipe, that's kind a short.

 

[greythorn3]

i could make it as tall as i want.. but anyhow i have not much $ at the time and wanted to get the OUTSIDE stuff done, how do i go about installing it thru the roof with the cap and pipe with the shingles? what tdo i need to purchase, that i can get away with only purchasing now untill i got the money to buy the other items for the inside of the house

Ray

 

[Gooserider]

i could make it as tall as i want.. but anyhow i have not much $ at the time and wanted to get the OUTSIDE stuff done, how do i go about installing it thru the roof with the cap and pipe with the shingles? what tdo i need to purchase, that i can get away with only purchasing now untill i got the money to buy the other items for the inside of the house

Ray

I would suggest looking at some of the catalogs for details, but from what I've seen, most of the Class A chimneys have a "support kit" at the ceiling or roof level and everything else either sits on that kit or hangs from it... There are also roof penetration kits that have the flashing and other metal work needed to go through the roof, and floor penetration kits for going through floors other than the one where the support kit is installed.

From what you describe, what it sounds like you will need to get started is the support kit, enough Class A pipe for the run from the support kit to the top of the chimney, a roof penetration kit and the cap. The pipe inside the house can be the galvanized or aluminized steel exterior stuff which is a little less money, for the exterior most people reccomend using stainless, though I've seen reports that the galvie holds up OK, just doesn't look as nice.

Many of the places that do chimney sales will offer kits with all the above stuff, and / or will give you free advice on what your install will need...

Looking in my bookmark collection I found The Chimney Liner Depot that sells Duratech chimney stuff - Never done business with them, so I can't say how they are on prices, service, etc... but they seem to have a fairly nice tech section that will at least get you started.

Gooserider