Liner questions

[dapperistdan]

Hi guys,

I'm installing a wood stove this fall. I picked out the stove (Alderlea T5), now its time for the liner. The liner will be going into a 8"x12" ceramic flu inside a mason chimney. The stove will be piped thru a 2x4 wall into the chimney.

1.) Do i really need a liner? I'm pretty sure i do for proper draft, just making sure.

2.) Is there a big difference in what type of liner I use? does it need to be flexible or solid?

3.) on a lot of stove/chimney runs, people seem to use Tee's instead of elbows to connect to the thimble to the liner?

any info would be great,
Thanks

 

[webby3650]

You will need to use a 2 piece Tee with a snout long enough to reach through the thimble. Make sure there is no combustibles around this area, it should be all masonry surrounding the area around the thimble.
Use flex liner, there are many different grades and brands out there. There is nothing at all wrong with single wall flex, it works great, its easy to install, cheaper, and has the same lifetime warranty that heavy liners offer.

 

[pen]

What wood stove are you installing?

Does this stove have a 6 inch stove collar or an 8 inch stove collar?

What sort of clearance distances do you have on this 2x4 wall?

 

[chimneylinerjames]

3.) on a lot of stove/chimney runs, people seem to use Tee's instead of elbows to connect to the thimble to the liner?

Yes, use a tee, an elbow is more difficult to install and will block up with creosote.

Solid, (rigid) liner is the best, smooth wall=best draft. But the single wall liner will also work fine.

 

[dapperistdan]

Yes, use a tee, an elbow is more difficult to install and will block up with creosote.

Solid, (rigid) liner is the best, smooth wall=best draft. But the single wall liner will also work fine.

Awesome. Thanks for the great replies.

Pen, the stove is a Pacific Energy Alderlea T5. With double wall pipe, the clearance from combustible is 5". The exit is 6".

To install, do you connect the tee to the bottom of liner and feed it down the flue? Then just push/connect the thimble into the tee branch?

Also, is the bottom section of the tee supposed to be blocked off?

 

[chimneylinerjames]

The tee is installed on the liner then fed down the chimney. The snout is then attached to the tee from the bottom. The tee also comes with a cap on the bottom that blocks the bottom off.

This explains the tee connection at around the 6:15 mark.

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[bholler]

I feel heavy single wall flex is the best liner it is smooth wall also and is a whole lot easier to install than rigid. Just my 2 cents regular light wall and rigid are good liner to i just think heavy wall is better

 

[dapperistdan]

I feel heavy single wall flex is the best liner it is smooth wall also and is a whole lot easier to install than rigid. Just my 2 cents regular light wall and rigid are good liner to i just think heavy wall is better

Great video, that helps a lot. Is the insulation completely necessary? What are the benefits? Whats the purpose of the mesh?

Thanks bholler, good to know.

Also, where can I order this stuff online? Or should i just get it from the store i'm buying my stove from?

 

[bholler]

The insulation will give you zero clearance from the outer masonry of the chimney to combustibles. Wit hout the insulation you need 1" air gap for an external chimney 2" for an internal one. It also improves performance greatly by making the liner heat faster and hold heat better. The mesh is just to protect the insulation with out it the foil face would get shredded when the liner is installed.

 

[dapperistdan]

The insulation will give you zero clearance from the outer masonry of the chimney to combustibles. Wit hout the insulation you need 1" air gap for an external chimney 2" for an internal one. It also improves performance greatly by making the liner heat faster and hold heat better. The mesh is just to protect the insulation with out it the foil face would get shredded when the liner is installed.

right, but since i have a clay liner inside a masonry chimney i should be fine correct? i can just use 316 stainless liner righT?

 

[bholler]

If it is for wood you can use 304 or 316 and no the clay liners don't change the requirement for insulation for zero clearance.

 

[webby3650]

When I clean a chimney with a liner, I can almost always tell if it insulated or not. Chimneys are usually dirtiest at the top, after it exits the envolope of the home. It's pretty apparent if there is no insulation, or where the insulation stops, usually about a foot from the top plate.
That's one reason I always stuff the flue around the liner with cerimac wool insulation at the top

 

[mellow]

Just like webby said, you can see where the insulation ends, see this picture of my liner you can see exactly where the insulation ends and the buildup starts a couple feet from the top. I have since stuffed roxul down it.

 

[mellow]

Whats the purpose of the mesh?

The chicken wire mesh helps protect the insulation during install, without it the insulation could rip as it is just a thin aluminum covering the rock wool that you wrap around the pipe.

 

[chimneylinerjames]

Also the mesh keep the insulation on the liner. With out it the spray glue and tape will fail. So it not only protects it some during the install it keeps it tight against the liner after it has been installed.

 

[dapperistdan]

Also the mesh keep the insulation on the liner. With out it the spray glue and tape will fail. So it not only protects it some during the install it keeps it tight against the liner after it has been installed.

Very interesting, the guy from the stove shop never mentioned any of this insulation. Will an insulated liner fit down a 8"x 12" flue? It seems like it would be a tight fit.

I also still don't quite understand, aren't these chimneys/flues meant to have fireplaces/stoves directly vented to them without a stainless liner?

 

[dapperistdan]

Very interesting, the guy from the stove shop never mentioned any of this insulation. Will an insulated liner fit down a 8"x 12" flue? It seems like it would be a tight fit.

I also still don't quite understand, aren't these chimneys/flues meant to have fireplaces/stoves directly vented to them without a stainless liner?

I'm not saying that I'm not convinced that i need insulation around my liner, you guys have definitely demonstrated why its necessary.

 

[chimneylinerjames]

Terra cotta flues are old technology. They were designed for coal, still work great with coal. As knowledge and experience has increased over the years, so has technology. Stainless steel liners are now the standard. Codes are slowly catching up.

 

[mellow]

I would have a Level II inspection done with a camera on the flue if you do not want to put insulation on the liner. That will let you know the condition of the terracotta, any cracks in it and insulation should be installed.

 

[dapperistdan]

I would have a Level II inspection done with a camera on the flue if you do not want to put insulation on the liner. That will let you know the condition of the terracotta, any cracks in it and insulation should be installed.

Flue has never been used. House was built in 1990, chimney installed sometime afterwards. I guess an inspection couldn't hurt, or I should probably just insulate...seems to have a lot of benefits.

Again, do you guys think the insulated liner would fit down the capped flue in the image?

 

[chimneylinerjames]

If you have to you can ovalize the liner. Then it will definitely fit. Use insulation, there are only positives with using insulation.

 

[begreen]

There are preinsulated 6" round liners on the market that may fit. If not, you can buy oval DuraLiner made for this situation. Comes in rigid and flex sections.

 

[chimneylinerjames]

There are many manufacturers that offer oval liners if you need that. Rigid, light flex, medium weight.

 

[bholler]

And once again it does not matter for code if the liners are cracked or not without proper clearance you need insulation

 

[dapperistdan]

And once again it does not matter for code if the liners are cracked or not without proper clearance you need insulation

You guys have been such a great help. I'm still unsure of the stainless tee that the liner drops into. Does the tee need to be insulated at all? Does the tee have clearances?
I was looking into using something like this http://www.chimneylinerdepot.com/store/17/product/Flex-King-Chimney-Liner-6X25-Tee-Kit.html
the tee doesnt seem to be double walled or anything like that.