Longer Burns vs. Efficient

[Heaterhunter]

After previously burning non-EPA for 3 years(almost a lifetime huh ) then going to EPA for 4 months this winter I would say the only heating scenario that I would ever use a non-EPA stove would be a camp for weekends so I could get quick heat and I wasn't so worried about wood consumption. Max instantaneous heat output of non-EPA stoves are higher and throw more heat for +/- 1 hour of the burn cycle(EPA burns tend to be 3-4 hrs longer). This is the ONLY benefit I see with a non-EPA. Other than that your wasting wood, heat, and convenience. Just my inexperienced opinion.

 

[HotCoals]

I am a newbie to wood burning and found this on jotuls website and it has me stumped especially the last line.
(broken link removed to http://jotul.com/us/home/pre-epa-airtight-stove-vs-non-catalytic-clean-buring)

"Non-catalytic woodstoves use secondary combustion air in order to burn off wood gases before they can leave the firebox. Because of this, they are not as controllable as a pre-E.P.A. “airtight” woodstoves. It was possible to “turn down” a pre-E.P.A. woodstove and achieve a long low smoldering fire. This was often perceived as being highly efficient. From an emissions viewpoint nothing could be further from the truth. From a user-friendly viewpoint, I fully understand why this was perceived as being efficient. For example, let’s load a non-catalytic woodstove with six sticks of wood. Over a period of 4 hours let’s say it produces 30,000 btu’s of heat per hour with less than 7.5 grams of particulate emissions per hour. Now let’s load the same six sticks into a pre-E.P.A., “airtight” woodstove. This stove may burn for 8 hours producing 10,000 btu’s per hour with around 80 grams of particulate emissions per hour. 4 X 30,000 = 120,000 btu’s; 8 X 10,000 = 80,000 btu’s. You see a difference here of nearly 40,000 btu’s. The E.P.A. stove has produced more heat from the same amount of fuel. The “airtight’ burned longer (more controlled) than did the E.P.A. certified stove but wasted 40,000 btu’s of energy up the chimney in the form of wood smoke (unburned wood gas). Some of it went into the environment and some of it condensed in the form of creosote in the chimney. I’m making numbers up but under the identical conditions (same chimney, same house, same fuel, different stoves) these numbers are accurate. An E.P.A. certified woodstove should produce about the same amount of heat with a third less wood than an old “airtight” but it does it at a price. It will burn much faster and for a shorter period of time than the old “airtight”."

If that last line is true why do so many on here say they get longer burn times?

What he is saying imo is that the pre epa airtight could be burnt way low .
So in the shoulder season say with temps of 40-45 you could get a real long burn..been there done it a bunch of times.

Then the epa comes a long and says we can't have this..too much smoke and particulates.
So the re-burn secondary epa tube stove comes to fruition.
Now you can't cut the air back like you could before but you are doing a way better job of burning the gas's therefore you get more heat from the same amount of wood..everything else being equal.

 

[04HemiRam2500]

That is where I think a non epa wood be good for me though as I live in an area where typically I see many 40 and 50 days throughout the winter. Of course this winter being the exception by many.

 

[HotCoals]

That is where I think a non epa wood be good for me though as I live in an area where typically I see many 40 and 50 days throughout the winter. Of course this winter being the exception by many.

Actually a cat stove would be the better choice with your temps. Cheers!

 

[04HemiRam2500]

Yeah and I di think of that but i have heard some really high! prices to replace the cat in them.

Also, you bring up a good point though do the cat stoves need a strong draft once you engage the cat. Also, don't most if not all of them have a cat bypass.

 

[tarzan]

Hot coals is right unless you just enjoy cleaning your chimney.

 

[HotCoals]

Yeah and I di think of that but i have heard some really high! prices to replace the cat in them.

Some can cost 300 bucks..some way less then that.
For a long time I had a blaze king smoke dragon..it did the job with one cleaning a season.
Now I'm on my 4th season with the King cat and I'm burning around 3 and 1/3 cords compared to the 5 cords I use to burn.
I can burn low enough when it's 45 out without getting the house to warm also.
My only regreat is that I didn't buy the stove sooner.
Yeah after 6 years I may need to buy a new cat..maybe not. The money I'm saving buying way less wood will make up for that easy. Plus it does a good job in the deep cold also with a little more air.
Check out a few diff cats stoves and see what the cat replacement cost is would be my advice.

 

[Charles1981]

My 2040 has a very small cat that costs about 140-170 to replace. Unfortunately it has degraded somewhat after 1.5 seasons. I will be sending it in under warranty (pro-rated) and maybe have to pay 50-75$ to replace it (hopefully VC doesn't try and screw me over and blame my burning practices or otherwise on the replacement and refuse to replace it pro-rated).

 

[HotCoals]

Yeah and I di think of that but i have heard some really high! prices to replace the cat in them.

Also, you bring up a good point though do the cat stoves need a strong draft once you engage the cat. Also, don't most if not all of them have a cat bypass.

When the cat is hot it will promote more draft because it is heating the air in the stove a lot.
Yes I have yet to see a cat stove without a by-pass.

 

[04HemiRam2500]

So, when the cat is activated your draft wont go down compared to a non cat stove with burn tubes? Also, say you run the stove without the cat isn't that like using a non epa so it is the best of both worlds?

 

[BrotherBart]

Put that 30-NC on a pallet and send it freight pre-paid to the Fed-Ex Freight terminal at Manassas, VA care of BrotherBart.

 

[BrotherBart]

If the forecast if 40 or 50, fire it in the morning and let it burn out and light'er back up at sundown. I have more of those days than you do and it ain't even a problem. With my big ole pre-epa stove it was royal pain in the butt.

 

[04HemiRam2500]

Hey BB honestly if Mike can't help me out but it definitely looks like he will its yours man. Just make me a reasonable offer. I even have the bigger blower and a set of unused baffle boards!

 

[HotCoals]

So, when the cat is activated your draft wont go down compared to a non cat stove with burn tubes? Also, say you run the stove without the cat isn't that like using a non epa so it is the best of both worlds?

No I never said to run the stove without the cat..I did say I had a old smoke dragon Blaze King without a cat or reburn tubes.
I would never run my cat stove with the by-pass open..only on reloads for awhile.

You really need to see one in action.
Trust me if your draft is sufficient to the point that smoke will not enter the room with the door open on reloads, it will be fine with the cat engaged.

 

[04HemiRam2500]

I am not saying to run the stove without the cat although as far as performance wouldn't a pre epa compare to that scenario?

 

[HotCoals]

I am not saying to run the stove without the cat although as far as performance wouldn't a pre epa compare to that scenario?

I suppose because with mine open it looked just like my old bk without a cat inside.

 

[BrotherBart]

I ain't paying nothing for it. Just taking a problem off of your hands.

 

[HotCoals]

I am not saying to run the stove without the cat although as far as performance wouldn't a pre epa compare to that scenario?

When it's above 30f out I can do 24 hour loads easy. Sometimes as long as 40 and keep the house 70-75 easy.
But know that my stove holds a lot of wood! lol

 

[Seasoned Oak]

Newer non EPA stoves are the WORST of both worlds. No Reburn and not airtight so they can be rated EPA exempt. Pros is no creosote,cons are extremely short burn times. You practically have to load every 2 hours.

 

[HotCoals]

When it's above 30f out I can do 24 hour loads easy. Sometimes as long as 40 and keep the house 70-75 easy.
But know that my stove holds a lot of wood! lol

The princess would work real nice for you. Plus there are other cat stoves out there that will get er done.
Sometimes depending on the heating needs a tube stove can be a great fit..but I don't think so where you live unless you don't mind re lighting everyday.