Might be the best buy on the Ebay this year

[elkimmeg]

This is a rebuild of a the current model 2550 Vermont Encore the auction ends in an hour and to bid is $600
This easilly retails for between 1100 to 1300 in this condition completely rebuilt by a dealer
Dylan this is right next door to you

http://cgi.ebay.com/Vermont-Casting...3QQihZ005QQcategoryZ41987QQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem

 

[daninohio]

By the same token, I don't wanna sound like an ebay expert....I CERTAINLY AM NOT. For example, in the auction in question, I'm unclear as to why the winning bidder's bid didn't 'appear' as a lower figure....the next highest bid was $111. I would've thought that, for the winning bid to be pushed to $600, another bid would have had to been placed for $595, or whatever incremental zone they were in. Anyone understand it differently??

Dylan,

My understanding is that in a situation like you describe, the first person bid $101.11, bidder #2 bid $590 (or so) and in doing so Ebay proxy bid $111 for him so as to outbid bidder #1 by $10. Then bidder #3 came along and bid $600 or more and $600 was good enough to outbid bidder #2 and so the whole amount of bidder #2's bid showed up at once in the final bidding. Had an intermediate bidder come along and bid $200, $300, $400 and $500, those amount would have shown up in the bidding history. My understanding anyway.

 

[Metal]

You are right Dylan, something weird happened there. I don't see a "buy it now" option so I can't understand why the price jumped so quickly.

 

[BrotherBart]

If it had a reserve on it, say $600, and somebody placed a $600 or higher bid it would immediately jump to the six hundred.

 

[suematteva]

My ebay experience is 1 item purchased....wouldn't it have said "reserve not met" ?

 

[Metal]

I learn something new every day!

 

[BrotherBart]

My ebay experience is 1 item purchased....wouldn't it have said "reserve not met" ?

Not if the reserve was $600. It would have been met.

From eBay's Help system:

"In Reserve Price Auctions, if your maximum bid is the first to be greater than the seller's reserve price, the eBay system will automatically jump the price up to meet the reserve, and bidding will continue from there."

 

[jjbaer]

My ebay experience is 1 item purchased....wouldn't it have said "reserve not met" ?

Not if the reserve was $600. It would have been met.

From eBay's Help system:

"In Reserve Price Auctions, if your maximum bid is the first to be greater than the seller's reserve price, the eBay system will automatically jump the price up to meet the reserve, and bidding will continue from there."

Hi,

That's what I don't like about e-bay...If the current high bid is, say, $120 and I bid, say, $130 with a max of $600 and let's assume the reserve is $600, I don't think it should be allowed to jump my bid to $600 because that, in effect, means the person auctioning the item is really bidding against you by driving your bid up to his Reserve price and auctioneers bidding on their own items is forbidden.....! If my max is really $600, any price increases above my going in bid of $130, should only happen in response to other legitimate bidders who are also bidding for the same item and NOT by being driven up by the hidden RESERVE price set by the auctioneer.

Also, the game seems "rigged" because reserve prices are hidden from bidders but they use that same "hidden price" to their advantage to then drive up my bid. Not good

 

[jjbaer]

My ebay experience is 1 item purchased....wouldn't it have said "reserve not met" ?

Not if the reserve was $600. It would have been met.

From eBay's Help system:

"In Reserve Price Auctions, if your maximum bid is the first to be greater than the seller's reserve price, the eBay system will automatically jump the price up to meet the reserve, and bidding will continue from there."

Hi,

That's what I don't like about e-bay...If the current high bid is, say, $120 and I bid, say, $130 with a max of $600 and let's assume the reserve is $600, I don't think it should be allowed to jump my bid to $600 because that, in effect, means the person auctioning the item is really bidding against you by driving your bid up to his Reserve price and auctioneers bidding on their own items is forbidden.....! If my max is really $600, any price increases above my going in bid of $130, should only happen in response to other legitimate bidders who are also bidding for the same item and NOT by being driven up by the hidden RESERVE price set by the auctioneer.

Also, the game seems "rigged" because reserve prices are hidden from bidders but they use that same "hidden price" to their advantage to then drive up my bid. Not good

I knida disagree, CI. You're indicating a willingness to be 'dragged' to that max....AND, the seller is paying (to ebay) a premium for the privilege of having a reserve, as well as taking the risk of a fee if it doesn't reach the reserve. Those elements, IMO, comprise the 'essense of the reserve'.

I disagree......when I go to any public auction, I only bid against other real bidders (yes...I know...there are plants, etc) and my max bid is kept in my "head".....I only increment my bid up to my max bid in response to actual bids and NOT to some "hidden reserve" set by the owner. NOW...once the auction is over, the owner can tell the winning bidder "hey, your supposed winning bid didn't meet my reserve" and at that point, the auction either 1) ends with no winner or 2) the winner is given the chance to up his bid to the reserve. What NEVER happens, however, is my bid being automatically INCREASED in response to a "hidden reserve" that only the auctioneer can see......to do so is unethical. Also, my max bid is hidden from other bidders but they give it to the auctioneer (e-bay) who then in-turn, boosts my bid.....not ethical......

 

[struggle]

I agree with being able to use a reserve. It is up to the holder of the item to determine how valuable it is to him/her. Once that price range is met then the item goes. I currently have an item on ebay now which I set the reserve at $30. I was getting nervous as I though it might not hit the reserve and I also set a buy it now of $45 and the auction ends in 3 hours and the reserve was met last night.

The reserve protects me from getting hosed on something of value to me not you. If you do not like the price then move on to another item. I sold two snowmobiles, trailer and all related equipment and set a $6K reserve., Now way was I going to go with out a reserve on something like that.

On smaller items it is kind of a double edged sword as some people do shy away from reserve auctions. If you know the item is worth haveing a reserve then it is best to use it. I have found on some items they do better with out a reserve as then the I do not want to lose the auction fight kicks in. If you get a few people bidding against each other then things get stupid high and they end up paying more for an item then it real is worth.

 

[jjbaer]

I agree with being able to use a reserve. It is up to the holder of the item to determine how valuable it is to him/her. Once that price range is met then the item goes. I currently have an item on ebay now which I set the reserve at $30. I was getting nervous as I though it might not hit the reserve and I also set a buy it now of $45 and the auction ends in 3 hours and the reserve was met last night.

The reserve protects me from getting hosed on something of value to me not you. If you do not like the price then move on to another item. I sold two snowmobiles, trailer and all related equipment and set a $6K reserve., Now way was I going to go with out a reserve on something like that.

On smaller items it is kind of a double edged sword as some people do shy away from reserve auctions. If you know the item is worth haveing a reserve then it is best to use it. I have found on some items they do better with out a reserve as then the I do not want to lose the auction fight kicks in. If you get a few people bidding against each other then things get stupid high and they end up paying more for an item then it real is worth.

You miss the point: all I'm saying is that in a "real auction" the hidden reserve is NEVER used to boost my price to the reserve without my permission...that's all.

 

[Metal]

As long as you put in your maximum bid (your perceived value of the object) you won't get screwed and your bid won't go any higher. That is the trick with Ebay, knowing you max and not going over it. It is kind of like knowing when to leave the table in Vegas.

 

[jjbaer]

As long as you put in your maximum bid (your perceived value of the object) you won't get screwed and your bid won't go any higher. That is the trick with Ebay, knowing you max and not going over it. It is kind of like knowing when to leave the table in Vegas.

Metal,

You seem to evade the comparison....all I'm saying is that a real auction NEVER uses the hidden reserve to force my bid to the reserve level but E-Bay does..........that's all.

 

[BrotherBart]

As long as you put in your maximum bid (your perceived value of the object) you won't get screwed and your bid won't go any higher. That is the trick with Ebay, knowing you max and not going over it. It is kind of like knowing when to leave the table in Vegas.

Metal,

You seem to evade the comparison....all I'm saying is that a real auction NEVER uses the hidden reserve to force my bid to the reserve level but E-Bay does..........that's all.

But live and eBay auctions have one thing in common in this case. If you don't bid at least the reserve amount, ya don't get the goods.

eBay changed the reserve bidding a while back. It was driving people nuts that when they put in a "max" bid on a reserve auction the system only kicked the bid up the next required increment. No matter how bad you wanted the item or how much you bid, if somebody didn't come along and overbid you and your and their proxys keep bumping up by increments to the reserve price then there was no way you could buy the item. You could be the high bidder and willing to pay the reserve or more but still couldn't buy the item.

So they changed it to the current process. Good, bad or ugly. This way sucks. The other way sucked.

One compensation is that now if the seller also puts a "Buy It Now" price on it as well as a reserve, the BIN stays available until the reserve price is met. Not removed when the first bid, under reserve, is placed like before.

 

[BrotherBart]

IMNSHO, this has been one of the most informative threads since the one that determined that wood shrinks best/most on those days that smoke spirals clockwise while ascending a chimney.

I agree totally. Worth about as much as two pounds of ashes.

 

[elkimmeg]

if the winning bidder take possesion like my title said this could be the best buy for a modern stove in that condition $600 for a completely rebuilt 2550 Encore
is the best buy I seen this season to Dylan it was next door to him, I almost bought it just to resell and make$ 400 or more

 

[masterswimmer]

castiron, based on your criteria, ebay does exactly what you asked them to do, bid up to the highest amount you proxied in order to win the bidding. If you only bid $590 on the auction in question, ebay would have incrementally outbid the previous bidder on your behalf. If nobody outbid the reserve, the auction would have closed without a winning bidder. However, if you bid by proxy the amount of the reserve, then the auction truly starts. If you bid $650, ebay would only have entered a bid of $600 for you and incrementally increased it above that to your maximum.

What benefit is there to a reserve auction that never reaches the reserve? If someone says, 'I am willing to spend $600 on the item', then why wouldn't they immediately take that as the opening bid? It totally makes sense............to me.

swimmer

 

[jjbaer]

As long as you put in your maximum bid (your perceived value of the object) you won't get screwed and your bid won't go any higher. That is the trick with Ebay, knowing you max and not going over it. It is kind of like knowing when to leave the table in Vegas.

Metal,

You seem to evade the comparison....all I'm saying is that a real auction NEVER uses the hidden reserve to force my bid to the reserve level but E-Bay does..........that's all.

But live and eBay auctions have one thing in common in this case. If you don't bid at least the reserve amount, ya don't get the goods.

eBay changed the reserve bidding a while back. It was driving people nuts that when they put in a "max" bid on a reserve auction the system only kicked the bid up the next required increment. No matter how bad you wanted the item or how much you bid, if somebody didn't come along and overbid you and your and their proxys keep bumping up by increments to the reserve price then there was no way you could buy the item. You could be the high bidder and willing to pay the reserve or more but still couldn't buy the item.

So they changed it to the current process. Good, bad or ugly. This way sucks. The other way sucked.

One compensation is that now if the seller also puts a "Buy It Now" price on it as well as a reserve, the BIN stays available until the reserve price is met. Not removed when the first bid, under reserve, is placed like before.

Yes. Also, if there is a buy it now price but no reserve, the buy it now price disappears upon the first bid being entered.

 

[BrotherBart]

castiron:

"Yes. Also, if there is a buy it now price but no reserve, the buy it now price disappears upon the first bid being entered."

Yeah. And the BIN used to disappear on reserve auctions when the first bid was place also. Even if the bid was under the reserve. Prety much made BIN prices useless. "BIN Stompers" would just place a one dollar bid and poof, it went away. Along with the extra fee the seller had paid for the BIN on the listing.

 

[jjbaer]

As long as you put in your maximum bid (your perceived value of the object) you won't get screwed and your bid won't go any higher. That is the trick with Ebay, knowing you max and not going over it. It is kind of like knowing when to leave the table in Vegas.

Metal,

You seem to evade the comparison....all I'm saying is that a real auction NEVER uses the hidden reserve to force my bid to the reserve level but E-Bay does..........that's all.

But live and eBay auctions have one thing in common in this case. If you don't bid at least the reserve amount, ya don't get the goods.

eBay changed the reserve bidding a while back. It was driving people nuts that when they put in a "max" bid on a reserve auction the system only kicked the bid up the next required increment. No matter how bad you wanted the item or how much you bid, if somebody didn't come along and overbid you and your and their proxys keep bumping up by increments to the reserve price then there was no way you could buy the item. You could be the high bidder and willing to pay the reserve or more but still couldn't buy the item.

So they changed it to the current process. Good, bad or ugly. This way sucks. The other way sucked.

One compensation is that now if the seller also puts a "Buy It Now" price on it as well as a reserve, the BIN stays available until the reserve price is met. Not removed when the first bid, under reserve, is placed like before.

 

[Corie]

Right, but the reason people don't do that castiron is because they want to suck you in to bidding by making you believe you might actually win the item for an obscenely low price. Gotta love that.


I like the system gunbroker.com uses a little bit better.

They often use reserve prices, but MANY times buyers will start the bidding at a value near what the gun is worth, rather than trying to create a bidding frenzy. Besides that though, what I really like is that if there is any action during the last 15 minutes of the auction, another 15 minutes is added to the auction to allow further bidding.

This continues until there is no more bidding, which I feel more accurately represents live auctions and also prevents the sniping which I think makes ebay a real piece of junk. I can't stand losing an auction in the last .2 seconds because that can't happen in the real world.

 

[jjbaer]

castiron, based on your criteria, ebay does exactly what you asked them to do, bid up to the highest amount you proxied in order to win the bidding. If you only bid $590 on the auction in question, ebay would have incrementally outbid the previous bidder on your behalf. If nobody outbid the reserve, the auction would have closed without a winning bidder. However, if you bid by proxy the amount of the reserve, then the auction truly starts. If you bid $650, ebay would only have entered a bid of $600 for you and incrementally increased it above that to your maximum.

What benefit is there to a reserve auction that never reaches the reserve? If someone says, 'I am willing to spend $600 on the item', then why wouldn't they immediately take that as the opening bid? It totally makes sense............to me.

swimmer

I agree with that only when you do away with reserves and make the min starting bid equal what you would have put into a reserve. Why is this different: because then as a bidder, I know that from my very first bid, that each bid has the opportunity to win (because my starting bid had to be at or above the min bid) and that I'm not just wasting my time...so....let's be up-front with bidders: do away with reserves and only, at most, allow Buy It Now bids and/or Minimum starting bids

 

[masterswimmer]

I agree with that only when you do away with reserves and make the min starting bid equal what you would have put into a reserve. Why is this different: because then as a bidder, I know that from my very first bid, that each bid has the opportunity to win (because my starting bid had to be at or above the min bid) and that I'm not just wasting my time...so....let's be up-front with bidders: do away with reserves and only, at most, allow Buy It Now bids and/or Minimum starting bids

Now we're talking. I like that idea. Eliminate reserve auctions and require the seller to open the bidding at a $ amount they'd be willing to accept.

 

[jjbaer]

I agree with that only when you do away with reserves and make the min starting bid equal what you would have put into a reserve. Why is this different: because then as a bidder, I know that from my very first bid, that each bid has the opportunity to win (because my starting bid had to be at or above the min bid) and that I'm not just wasting my time...so....let's be up-front with bidders: do away with reserves and only, at most, allow Buy It Now bids and/or Minimum starting bids

Now we're talking. I like that idea. Eliminate reserve auctions and require the seller to open the bidding at a $ amount they'd be willing to accept.

As I said before, I agree with that. However, to me the logical consequence of that would be FAR fewer items being placed for auction....and ebay wants VOLUME, VOLUME, VOLUME.

Hi,

You're missing the point...I maintain that right now volume is lower than it would be if you did it my way because if buyers are like me, I refuse to even bid on any item having a reserve. However, I DO bid on auctions that don't have a reserve and which only have a min starting bid in place because I know from the start, that each of my bids is a potential winner without having to worry if I met some unknown reserve limit.. so, I maintain volumes would be even higher than they are now if sellers would just be upfront with bidders and get rid of the reserve..........

 

[jjbaer]

I agree with that only when you do away with reserves and make the min starting bid equal what you would have put into a reserve. Why is this different: because then as a bidder, I know that from my very first bid, that each bid has the opportunity to win (because my starting bid had to be at or above the min bid) and that I'm not just wasting my time...so....let's be up-front with bidders: do away with reserves and only, at most, allow Buy It Now bids and/or Minimum starting bids

Now we're talking. I like that idea. Eliminate reserve auctions and require the seller to open the bidding at a $ amount they'd be willing to accept.

As I said before, I agree with that. However, to me the logical consequence of that would be FAR fewer items being placed for auction....and ebay wants VOLUME, VOLUME, VOLUME.

Hi,

You're missing the point...I maintain that right now volume is lower than it would be if you did it my way because if buyers are like me, I refuse to even bid on any item having a reserve. However, I DO bid on auctions that don't have a reserve and which only have a min starting bid in place because I know from the start, that each of my bids is a potential winner without having to worry if I met some unknown reserve limit.. so, I maintain volumes would be even higher than they are now if sellers would just be upfront with bidders and get rid of the reserve..........

Well then, I guess we can agree to disagree here....for the moment, anyway. Perhaps I'll come around to your point, with time.

Dylan,

That's why most people hate shopping for a car......because there's a hidden reserve at which point the dealer won't sell...and we end up haggling back and forth, sometimes never arriving at a price.........