My NM Insurance Agent's Reaction to Vogelzang Boxwood BX26E

[TinasArk]

I have a couple of threads with detail, currently going regarding this season's set-up and use of a Vogelzang BX26E Boxwood Stove.

Many people here in Hearth.com have been extremely helpful to me and many have brought up what might happen with my Homeowner's Insurance. I had mentioned in a prior thread that we had no issues with the Insurance company. I can't hold back any more. I emailed Rick ("fossil") about this. He replied to my email, as well as saying it was okay to post here in Hearth.com. This is how my Homeowner's Insurance Agent REALLY reacted...

EMAIL TO RICK:
Hi Rick (fossil), Because of your former "Lobo" status...perhaps you'll recognize this to be true about the Land of Manana, here.

I just had to share the following notations from a phone call I had with my insurance office. While I find it humorous on one hand, I find it disconcerting on the other...
_________________________________________________________________________________________________________

PHONE CONVERSATION NOTES:
At approx. 11:30am today, I spoke with Xxxxxxx from “Xxxxxx Xxxxx” State Farm Office here in Xxxxxxx , NM . She was calling me in regard to an email which I sent Xxxxxx through his State Farm website, telling him I wanted to talk about wood stoves.

I asked Xxxxxxx if there were any particulars on wood stoves which were not allowed to be used in the home and about their “specs”, (i.e., clearance wall, hearth, etc.) and she said she didn’t know of any.

She told me there are so many really old stoves “up here” … you know, like pot belly and such. I told her I’d done quite a bit of research with NFPA and an online group, and told her what that was. She said it sounded like I’d done my homework. I asked her about what needed to be done regarding the insurance once the stove is put in. I asked if she/they needed to come out and have a look-see or if they needed pictures of the installation. Her reply was, “No…as long as you do the piping right, we just take your word for it. We know you’re going to want to do it safely; and besides, it doesn’t change the cost of your homeowner’s insurance”.

::: visualize image of jaw dropped Tina here:::
_________________________________________________________________________________________________________

END, EMAIL TO RICK:
Rick, the lack of concern about any part of installing this wood stove makes me nervous about what all the other people in my area may have going in their homes! I would love to post this in Hearth.com, but no one will believe it! lol

 

[webbie]

That was the response I would expect in a lot of areas. I had insurance agents tell me decades ago that they didn't want to get a permit for their installation....and I questioned them as to whether it would be covered if the house burned down - at the time, they told me anything short of arson by themselves would be covered.

Fact is, many people burn their houses down with really stupid stuff that is WAY outside any code (long extension cords, space heaters 24/7, etc. etc) and, last time I heard, all the claims are paid. In fact, if they were not paid - the banks would quickly stage a revolt, since it is really the banks money up for grabs there.

It is an important point to make - that you do not have to lie or mislead to tell people how to so the right thing. Some people say you should get a permit and inform your insurance company so you will get paid if you burn your house down. To me that is the same old, same old Fear Factor. What a person should do is install the stove safely as per the owners manuals - or have a pro do. They should be somewhat familiar with the basic codes NFPA. And they should inform (but not ask) their insurance company and get a permit (where required).

Separating the fact from the fantasy are important. It is a big county and lots of places have NO building official to even go to...and, if you try, they'll tell you that you don't need a permit, etc.

Just to be clear - it is my advice for folks to buy a listed and approved stove. It confirms that the unit is safe in certain ways. But that does not mean every other unit is unsafe. Site built Masonry Heaters, for instance, are not UL approved...nor are site built masonry fireplaces. In fact, tests show that site built masonry fireplaces FAIL the UL tests.

It does not surprise me that they think you are going to do it correctly.....after all, isn't that why we fly in commercial airliners? Because we assume the pilots want to live as much as we do......

Taking this to it's logical conclusion....maybe the local building official and insurance company want you to install a webcam so they can monitor that you operate the stove as per UL standards......

 

[TinasArk]

Craig...and that's why YOU'RE the Administrator. I liked your P.O.V.

 

[Jags]

Craig...and that's why YOU'RE the Administrator. I liked your P.O.V.

Naaa...he's the Administrator because he was the first one to think of the Hearth.com address. :lol:

 

[webbie]

Naaa...he's the Administrator because he was the first one to think of the Hearth.com address. :lol:

Nah, not the first one to think....the first one to DO.

 

[karri0n]

Good luck getting the same result in CT, home of the insurance capital of the world. It doesn't surprise me that in NM you got away with it just fine, but in any coastal, city, or liberal area, the "fear factor" is completely ingrained in all the businesses, homeowners, and local governments, and as such, you will likely run in to a lot more problems. Just another reason to live in the country and burn wood.

 

[Jags]

Naaa...he's the Administrator because he was the first one to think of the Hearth.com address. :lol:

Nah, not the first one to think....the first one to DO.

I gotta hand it too ya Craig, I respect a man that takes his passion and makes something from it.

 

[dougand3]

When I installed my Resolute Acclaim, I called:
1. County Permit Dept (this is a hi-tech county - NASA, Redstone Arsenal, Defense and Space contractors galore - here, if you ask the question - "What are you - a rocket scientist??????" - chances are the answer will be "yes") - They indicated no inspection required unless it was over $12k to install. Tells me it's not about safety but about whether it can raise the "Tax Value" of your property, therefore, bump up your prop tax bill.

2. Insurance Company - a BIG national company hq-ed in Texas, well respected in the biz. Talking to them was a hoot. My rates went up a $1/month - not for any fire safety concerns but because they calculated they would spend $5k to replace what I have installed. For most of the conversation, I had to repeatedly convince them this was not a fancy $1800 kitchen stove but a house heater. And when the nice lady signed off - she says "Have fun in that fabulous new kitchen!" LOL

Some codes may seem like overkill but if you are inside them - seems more comfortable to me.

 

[fossil]

Naaa...he's the Administrator because he was the first one to think of the Hearth.com address. :lol:

Nah, not the first one to think....the first one to DO.

C'mon...he's the "Administrator" because he owns the place, and he gets to pick whatever title suits him. Tomorrow he might be the "Emperor", or the "Pubah". Who's gonna tell him he can't? Rick

 

[Jags]

Naaa...he's the Administrator because he was the first one to think of the Hearth.com address. :lol:

Nah, not the first one to think....the first one to DO.

C'mon...he's the "Administrator" because he owns the place, and he gets to pick whatever title suits him. Tomorrow he might be the "Emperor", or the "Pubah". Who's gonna tell him he can't? Rick

Technically he rents. :lol:

 

[Brian VT]

My rates went up a $1/month - not for any fire safety concerns but because they calculated they would spend $5k to replace what I have installed.

Pretty much the same thing here.

 

[TinasArk]

Just another reason to live in the country and burn wood.

LMAO! Love that!
******
I was born in NY and raised in CA...that's why I was became more than jaw dropped about it.
Still...these stories/posts from other similar accounts are a bit mind boggling to me.

 

[mtarbert]

Last spring a customer (painting) of mine had a coal/wood kitchen installed in her old farmhouse. The company that sold the stove also installed it. It is a modern cook stove that she paid in excess of 2000 dollars for the unit and install. A few days after the job was completed I saw the mess that the installers made. The stove was 12 inches from wood beaded board wall siding and 10 inches from a wood sash window. She called (at my urging) for a factory rep who eventually came ....inspected....and had the stove removed and prompthy refunded the Ladies money. I cannot imagine what would have happened if the Lady relied on that stove and install for her heat.The installers work for a company that sells stoves out of Lancaster Pa.
Mike

 

[fossil]

Same company as Tina, but different state and time. Back in 1996, we bought a weekend place out in the Shenandoah Valley in Virginia. There was a little Sierra side-loader freestanding stove existing in the place. We went to the local State Farm agent looking for a policy, and he came out the nine miles to the place with us to look it over and take some measurements, said everything looked fine, and wrote us what I thought was a very reasonable policy on the place. Just depends on who, where, & when, I guess. Personally, I believe in full disclosure, then I at least feel I've met my end of the bargain. Rick

 

[LLigetfa]

When I installed my first RSF, the insurance company required that it be UL approved and that the installation be inspected by the fire marshall. I did my own installation. When I put the house up for sale, I hired an accredited chimney sweep to clean and inspect the installation and got a clean bill of health that I used as a selling feature.

With my current home's RSF install, I only needed the building inspector's approval.

 

[firefighterjake]

I'm with Rick . . . I put a call into my insurance company before the installation and only had to meet a few requirements -- namely professional installation, inspection from the FD and a completed form asking for clearances, if smoke detectors were present, etc. No change in rates.

However, I was prepared to jump ship if need be and shop around for a better insurance company if they had stated they would not cover the woodstove or would be raising rates significantly.

I did not want to go through my parent's experience where they failed to let the Insurance Company know they had installed an outdoor boiler and had built a shed around it (I still am perplexed as to why my father felt compelled to build a shed around the boiler which already looks like a shed anyways). The outdoor woodboiler caused a fire (either a problem with the electrical connection or a hot ash that spilled out and ended up too close to the combustible wall of the shed) which destroyed my parent's house (incidentally it was very odd fighting a fire in your childhood home as a firefighter.)

The insurance company paid off the claim, but stated that since my parents failed to let them know about the boiler and shed that they would not honor the Full Replacement Costs clause of the policy and would only be giving them X number of dollars . . . which to be honest was a fair amount for their home. I'm still not sure if they could have argued their case or not for the Full Replacement Value . . . but ever since then I figure it's better to be safe than sorry.