Need Hearth Extension Opinions - See My Fireplace

[North_East]

Hello -
I am in the market for a Wood burning insert to fit my fireplace. Of course I am trying to take advantage of the 30% tax credit and I have looked at several units. Still undecided though...

My house is a raised ranch with the fireplace in the basement. Total sq ft: 1850
The fireplace dimensions are: 42W x 31H x 22D

I am planning to do the install myself with some help of others. By the looks of my fireplace, I will need to extend the hearth. Currently, it is only protruding about 11-12". This is not enough (see picture attached)

Can some suggestions be made as to what the best solution would be? Unfortunately, I can't afford to spend a ton of money but on the other hand, I need it to be safe and code acceptable...

Thanks in advance for the assist...

-Jg (1st post)

 

[Dakotas Dad]

You know you need a minimum of 16" in front of the stove.. Pick a stove/insert that only needs "ember protection" in front, and pull up carpet and put down a tiled area directly in front of the insert, that is guessing you are on a slab right there. No big deal, easy peezy as they say. And honestly, I would go for more than the 16" maybe 20"... put some 45 degree corners on it, maybe a bit of wood surround/transition...

More importantly, that looks like a pretty small room, in the basement. How do you plan to keep that from being a "furnace room", and still warm the rest of the house?

 

[oconnor]

With the raised hearth and the carpet, a simple row of tiles on the floor in front of the hearth would likely do what you need. You can get edging for where you would cut out the carpet. Lots easier than brickwork. Being a basement you shouldn`t have any trouble getting the tile down. If it is a raised subfloor, form up the area and fill with concrete before you tile it.

 

[North_East]

You know you need a minimum of 16" in front of the stove.. Pick a stove/insert that only needs "ember protection" in front, and pull up carpet and put down a tiled area directly in front of the insert, that is guessing you are on a slab right there. No big deal, easy peezy as they say. And honestly, I would go for more than the 16" maybe 20"... put some 45 degree corners on it, maybe a bit of wood surround/transition...

More importantly, that looks like a pretty small room, in the basement. How do you plan to keep that from being a "furnace room", and still warm the rest of the house?

Thanks for the suggestion. Putting tile down directly in front is the most obvious choice and proabably the easiest. And I am assuming it's a slab - but not 100% sure...

The 'furnace room' question has been on my mind since day one. There is a bedroom to the right of the partitioned wall (it is fairly large).

The picture was taken on the stairs that lead to the front door and the second set of stairs to the living room and kitchen upstairs (typical raised ranch).

My initial thought was to get a smaller insert and not depend on it to heat the entire house. BUT at the same time, I don't want it to get so hot downstairs that we can't even sit in that room...

Is this what's going to happen regardless of the insert??

 

[Dakotas Dad]

You know you need a minimum of 16" in front of the stove.. Pick a stove/insert that only needs "ember protection" in front, and pull up carpet and put down a tiled area directly in front of the insert, that is guessing you are on a slab right there. No big deal, easy peezy as they say. And honestly, I would go for more than the 16" maybe 20"... put some 45 degree corners on it, maybe a bit of wood surround/transition...

More importantly, that looks like a pretty small room, in the basement. How do you plan to keep that from being a "furnace room", and still warm the rest of the house?

Thanks for the suggestion. Putting tile down directly in front is the most obvious choice and proabably the easiest. And I am assuming it's a slab - but not 100% sure...

The 'furnace room' question has been on my mind since day one. There is a bedroom to the right of the partitioned wall (it is fairly large).

The picture was taken on the stairs that lead to the front door and the second set of stairs to the living room and kitchen upstairs (typical raised ranch).

My initial thought was to get a smaller insert and not depend on it to heat the entire house. BUT at the same time, I don't want it to get so hot downstairs that we can't even sit in that room...

Is this what's going to happen regardless of the insert??

Maybe, maybe not.. How is the door area? is it fairly open? It seems the best bet is to move cool air into the heated space, rather than the heated air out, but it all depends on the "flow" of the home. If you have a large landing area there where you took the picture from and it's open to the higher level of the house, should be able to get good flow with a fan, near the floor, on the upper story pointed back across into the foyer area, cooler air then dropping into stove room, warmed air exiting on it's own up the entrance way, but it will probably always be warmest there with the stove... but convection and airflow can do wonders. We heat 2100sqft with a stove rated for 1800sqft. and are happy, but we have a very open 2 story floor plan, and honestly I like it cooler upstairs in the bedrooms anyways(usually 2-3 degrees cooler). Without blowing a fan from the dining room into the living room, there is about a 10-12 degree difference.

 

[madison]

Maybe the picture is misleading, but the room looks pretty narrow/small and to my eyes, looks like it would get pretty hot with any decent size insert.

Regarding the hearth, agree with prev. posters, or possibly, could you use a piece of stone on top of the brick to extend the front protection?

 

[North_East]

Maybe, maybe not.. How is the door area? is it fairly open? It seems the best bet is to move cool air into the heated space, rather than the heated air out, but it all depends on the "flow" of the home. If you have a large landing area there where you took the picture from and it's open to the higher level of the house, should be able to get good flow with a fan, near the floor, on the upper story pointed back across into the foyer area, cooler air then dropping into stove room, warmed air exiting on it's own up the entrance way, but it will probably always be warmest there with the stove... but convection and airflow can do wonders. We heat 2100sqft with a stove rated for 1800sqft. and are happy, but we have a very open 2 story floor plan, and honestly I like it cooler upstairs in the bedrooms anyways(usually 2-3 degrees cooler). Without blowing a fan from the dining room into the living room, there is about a 10-12 degree difference.

It is fairly open (see pic). I have been told to get the biggest insert I can fit but that doesn't sound like a good idea. I was thinking more of something rated for like 1,400 sq ft (vs my 1850sq ft house). I have been looking at the Osburn units (1100 & 1600) -

Do you agree with my thoughts about a smaller unit?

 

[North_East]

Maybe the picture is misleading, but the room looks pretty narrow/small and to my eyes, looks like it would get pretty hot with any decent size insert.

Regarding the hearth, agree with prev. posters, or possibly, could you use a piece of stone on top of the brick to extend the front protection?

You are correct, the room is on the smaller/narrow side (I do not have the exact measuements on me) and temperature is my main concern.

A family member has just purchased over 50 acres and I am free to take all the wood I want. Along with the 30% tax credit, this is my reason for contemplating this decision....

 

[North_East]

The size of the room in the first picture is:

11' x 18' x 8

 

[North_East]

Here is a picture from the Fireplace wall (pic on Left)
Had some extra tile in the garage and starting to experiment (pic on Right)

Any opinions on size of unit based on the floor plan?

 

[begreen]

Based on what has been posted I would shop for an insert in the ~2 cu ft range. You will need to have the chimney cleaned and then I would strongly recommend a full liner be installed. The hearth will need an extension, but it sounds like you already are working that out.

 

[North_East]

Based on what has been posted I would shop for an insert in the ~2 cu ft range. You will need to have the chimney cleaned and then I would strongly recommend a full liner be installed. The hearth will need an extension, but it sounds like you already are working that out.

Thanks for the input BG...
The Chimney was just recently cleaned.
I am looking to purchase the Forever Flex 6", 25' SS liner (316ti) from ChimneySweepOnline.com ($430 shipped)
As for Inserts, I am looking into the Osburn stoves (Dynamitebuys.com). The 2000 Model has a 2.3 cu ft firebox. It's rated for up to 2,100 sq ft though. To me, that sounds like it would be too much with my environment. I was strongly considering the 1600 model...

(thoughts?)

 

[begreen]

The 1600 should work. It is 1.85 cu ft. I think a fair amount of heat will head up the staircase. If it needs a little fan assistance that is not a big deal. You may be burning smaller fires until it gets cold, but in winter it should be ok.

 

[joefrompa]

Hey Northeast,

A few comments having recently bought an insert with a similar Hearth setup:

1. They sell fairly thin micore hearth pads that will extend it out a reasonable amount to provide protection. It's like $80-100 and you can remove it during the warm months. Something to consider as an "easy" option.

2. I'm going with a fire-resistant wool rug and have been told that's acceptable. There is no fear of combustion due to heat with the way the hearth is raised 1' off the carpeting, the main fear is embers being thrown out of the fireplace. The rug is the way I'm choosing to go after seeing my in-laws do it for 5 years with a very similar setup.

3. I bought a Lopi Republic 1750 which is rated up to 2000 square feet. It's a 2.2 CF firebox and is an outstanding unit. I was able to get an amazing price at Gasworks in Frazer, PA, and I would highly recommend...let me know if that model interests you and I'll share details.

If you get over-hot, you can always:

1. Crack windows
2. Use less wood/let the fire burn down
3. Add circulation via fans

But if you plan on actually heating the house via wood, you can't add heating capacity after it's installed. Just something to consider.

Joe

 

[North_East]

Hey Northeast,

A few comments having recently bought an insert with a similar Hearth setup:

1. They sell fairly thin micore hearth pads that will extend it out a reasonable amount to provide protection. It's like $80-100 and you can remove it during the warm months. Something to consider as an "easy" option.

2. I'm going with a fire-resistant wool rug and have been told that's acceptable. There is no fear of combustion due to heat with the way the hearth is raised 1' off the carpeting, the main fear is embers being thrown out of the fireplace. The rug is the way I'm choosing to go after seeing my in-laws do it for 5 years with a very similar setup.

3. I bought a Lopi Republic 1750 which is rated up to 2000 square feet. It's a 2.2 CF firebox and is an outstanding unit. I was able to get an amazing price at Gasworks in Frazer, PA, and I would highly recommend...let me know if that model interests you and I'll share details.

If you get over-hot, you can always:

1. Crack windows
2. Use less wood/let the fire burn down
3. Add circulation via fans

But if you plan on actually heating the house via wood, you can't add heating capacity after it's installed. Just something to consider.

Joe

Thanks for the input Joe....
Options 1 & 2 sound like they would work out well (Option 2 would be my choice as well).

A few questions if you don't mind:

Did you perform the Install yourself or did Gasworks?
How about the Liner? Did you insulate and use a 6"ss straight up?
Are you using a Block-Off plate as well?
Do you have any pics to share?
I'm sure you are taking advantage of the 30% credit (if applicable as I read Inserts were not specified)

Thanks in advance...

 

[paanta]

JG, here's a reply to the PM you sent me:

I installed the Osburn 1600 last year in the upper floor of my house. The house is probably 1200SF upstairs with an apartment we rent out in the basement. The quality of the insert has been great. It's a SOLID beast and compared to anything else we looked at in the price range it looks better and seems better assembled all around. They seem to keep their prices low by using internet sales and avoiding all the advertising/overhead of having brick and mortar dealers rather than by making a low-quality product. Can't recommend the unit enough for the price point.

It'll put out more than enough to heat the house but the firebox isn't huge and by morning it's down to just a few coals unless I feed it overnight. Enough to relight a fire just by adding wood, but not really putting out much heat. At 1850 SF it'll be enough to heat the house, but will require a couple feedings overnight if you want to stay truly warm. If it's going to be your primary heat I'd absolutely size it up to the 2000. The 2000 is still cheap as heck for what you get, and it's a similar design.

I did the install myself, with no prior experience working on fireplaces or HVAC stuff. It was straightforward and I followed most all the advice folks here gave me as well as the manual. It was a lot of physical work, but there were no real surprises to speak of and I managed to do it all without a second pair of hands. The hardest part was actually placing the insert in place with the liner already locked in place by insulation. 6" liner, homemade sheet metal blockoff plate over the insert tapcon'd in place, lower half of the chimney insulated with the pour in mix. I ran out of it half way up and used loose perlite for the rest. At the time I think rockford chimney supply had the best deal on liners.

If you're doing it yourself you're saving money, so there's *no* excuse to cut corners like a less scrupulous pro might. I did it myself because the two guys who gave us installation quotes were recommending stuff contrary to what I read here and contrary to all the installation manuals I read (particularly regarding clearances to combustibles). Line it, insulate it, make sure all the clearances are right. You don't want to be responsible for burning your house down or killing your family, y'know?

The thing really changed my life. Used to be we'd keep the house at 62-65, so I was always a little cold. Then you'd step out into 5 degree Michigan winters and instantly feel like you were living in some kind of hell on earth. Now, with the main living space at 80F or MORE it's almost a relief to hit that nice cold air. Knowing your living room is going to be a sauna when you get home really makes the weather tolerable. Guests know that if they don't wear short sleeves they're going to risk heat stroke in mid-January.

Best investment we've ever made.

 

[burleymike]

Glad to hear you are so happy with your Osburn, I just ordered the 2400 from Dynamitebuys.com with a liner for the best price I could find anywhere. I am dreading getting everything to line up with the block off plate and all, oh well the block off plate cost me $3.00 so if I mess up the cut I can go get another piece of steel.

I have a hearth that is just like your hearth, it is 16" off the floor and it is 16" deep. I am going to go with some tiles on the floor, I am not too worried though since we have hardwood floors, I did however put a lot of time and money into installing/finishing them so I want to keep them burn mark free.

 

[pyper]

It would be nice to elevate the tile.

When we built my hearth we made a 2x4 frame, covered it with plywood, covered that with a sufficient layer of non-combustable cement backer board, and covered that with stone.

An easier option for you, since you've got a slab, would be concrete block, and or pavers (covered with tile).

 

[tickbitty]

Hello -
I am in the market for a Wood burning insert to fit my fireplace. Of course I am trying to take advantage of the 30% tax credit and I have looked at several units. Still undecided though...

My house is a raised ranch with the fireplace in the basement. Total sq ft: 1850
The fireplace dimensions are: 42W x 31H x 22D

I am planning to do the install myself with some help of others. By the looks of my fireplace, I will need to extend the hearth. Currently, it is only protruding about 11-12". This is not enough (see picture attached)

Can some suggestions be made as to what the best solution would be? Unfortunately, I can't afford to spend a ton of money but on the other hand, I need it to be safe and code acceptable...

Thanks in advance for the assist...

-Jg (1st post)

The easiest way to get your front ember protection is one of these:
http://www.northlineexpress.com/itemdesc.asp?ic=5HY-UL1848BL-1C

At around 50$ that might be the cheapest too, but tiles aren't terribly expensive either!

 

[tickbitty]

OMG Paanta, that Osburn installation is beautiful, I love the colored tile surround!

 

[North_East]

Hello -
I am in the market for a Wood burning insert to fit my fireplace. Of course I am trying to take advantage of the 30% tax credit and I have looked at several units. Still undecided though...

My house is a raised ranch with the fireplace in the basement. Total sq ft: 1850
The fireplace dimensions are: 42W x 31H x 22D

I am planning to do the install myself with some help of others. By the looks of my fireplace, I will need to extend the hearth. Currently, it is only protruding about 11-12". This is not enough (see picture attached)

Can some suggestions be made as to what the best solution would be? Unfortunately, I can't afford to spend a ton of money but on the other hand, I need it to be safe and code acceptable...

Thanks in advance for the assist...

-Jg (1st post)

The easiest way to get your front ember protection is one of these:
http://www.northlineexpress.com/itemdesc.asp?ic=5HY-UL1848BL-1C

At around 50$ that might be the cheapest too, but tiles aren't terribly expensive either!

That Hearth Pad Extender may be the way to go. Do we know if the Building Inspector will approve that?
Tiles are cheap (especially if you already have some leftover) but more work with ripping up the carpet and preparation....

I agree, Paanta's setup is hot (no pun intended)

 

[Seth22]

OMG Paanta, that Osburn installation is beautiful, I love the colored tile surround!

When I first saw the picture, I thought it was from a Pottery Barn magazine. That is good looking.

 

[North_East]

After long thought and much reading on this site, I have decided to go with the 'Osburn 2000' Wood Insert.
It has a 2.3 cu ft firebox - This was really the deciding factor.
I would rather have the larger firebox and the option for an overnight burn...

I'll be ordering the Liner and Insert today and hope to have it in place within the next 2 weeks...

I was outside all day yesterday (with my two little boys) cuttin' and splittin'. It was a good, fun day...

Thanks for the help to all the members that chimed in. And I may be back for installation assistance