Need help sizing a stove for a tiny cabin up north

[draughtdude]

Hi Guys,

I'm a long time reader of the forums here, but I've come across a bit of a quandry with my new project so I thought I'd join up and ask the folks who know.

I'm currently constructing a 280 sq ft stick-frame cabin close to the northern ontario line where we regularly see -20C in the winter with occasional dips down to -35C, and the occasional -40C. It's actually -15C right now lol.

I want to heat with wood, but am unsure what size to go with, cat or non cat, etc. I had my sights set on a pacific energy neo 1.6 but perhaps that's too big? It's also kinda pricey. I visited the stove store and compared it to a Jotul F100 and the usable firebox size looks the same, but the specs for the Jotul I think are slightly less than 1 cu ft.

The cabin has R42 floors, R22 in the walls, and R36 roof, with appropximately 100 sq ft of window space to make it nice and bright.

Any thoughts on something that won't cook me out but might allow me to wake up reasonably warm?

Thanks,

John

 

[CenterTree]

...
I'm currently constructing a 280 sq ft stick-frame cabin close to the northern ontario line where we regularly see -20C in the winter with occasional dips down to -35C, and the occasional -40C. It's actually -15C right now lol.....



...The cabin has R42 floors, R22 in the walls, and R36 roof, with appropximately 100 sq ft of window space to make it nice and bright.

Any thoughts on something that won't cook me out but might allow me to wake up reasonably warm?

Thanks,

John

That is a well insulated room and so small that you may get by with just a cigaret lighter for heat.


How long will your "stays" be in the cabin? Single nights or week long events?

 

[draughtdude]

I plan on living in it for the next few years at least. It will be kept warm all winter unless I go away for a week or two. I had plans for propane heat as backup.

 

[transmogrifire]

i have a jotul 602 in calgary, it heats a room that size quite nicely. can get some fairly long burns out of it with hardwood.

 

[draughtdude]

i have a jotul 602 in calgary, it heats a room that size quite nicely. can get some fairly long burns out of it with hardwood.

It doesn't get too hot in there?

 

[Chimney Smoke]

With something that small and heating it with wood you're going to have no choice other than too hot and leave windows open. I have an 18X24 insulated hunting camp in northern Maine. We just had a junk burned out woodstove in it until a few years ago when I bought a used small Vermont Castings stove, not sure the model. The camp will go from ambient air temp to about 70 in around 90 minutes. After the 2 hour mark it's upper 70's and I have windows open. This is just with softwood as well - fir and poplar. With a woodstove in your cabin I think you'll be burning mostly kindling to start the fire and get the stove hot and then let it burn out.

 

[begreen]

This is a challenge. Wood heats in cycles unless you get a cat stove. I would consider a Vermont Castings Intrepid II cat stove or a Woodstock Keystone for this reason. In cheap basic stoves maybe look at the PE True North TN19. It's oversized so you will be running partial loads most of the time, but it will have the reserves to do an all night fire for when it is very cold outside.

 

[saskwoodburner]

I'm fairly new to wood burning, so take what I say with a grain of salt. I'm about an hour north of Saskatoon, so we get our share of rediculous cold over here. Anyways, I bought an Englander 17 (goes by the name Timber Ridge from CanadianTire) to install in an old mobile home. The firebox is only 1 or 1.1 cubic feet, and it keeps us plenty warm without trying.

With how insulated your cabin sounds, you shouldn't have problems keeping the heat in there with any small stove.

 

[draughtdude]

Saskwoodburner, thanks for the suggestion. I hadn't heard of this stove before and after some checking it has bumped itself to the top of the list, albeit mostly because I can get it for $800 from the local Canadian tire and it's firebox is nice and small. The modern look is cool too. How big is your place?

Begreen, so you think a cat stove might be a good option? I am kind of worried about having a load in the firebox (even a small one) and then dampering it down to let the cats work, and then have the wood last too long, and end up with the same net effect as a cyclical non-cat stove. Any thoughts?

ChimneySmoke, how cold outside is it generally when you experience this with your cabin?


This is all really good food for thought. One thing I keep coming back to is the window area that I will have, at just over 100 sq ft of window space in a small cabin I can't help but think this will help with the stove oversize problem and allow me to fire more normally. What do you guys think?

 

[draughtdude]

Was looking at the Vermont castings intepid II specs and it states a 5 hour burn time. I then ran across 20hr burn times for blaze kings smaller offerings like the sirrocco 20, which is physically too big for my application, but the firebox size isn't 4 times the intrepid. Does anyone have any real world feedback on the intrepid's low burn time and maybe stove top temps?

 

[MaintenanceMan]

I certainly think the 17 Would heat your space just fine. It's been a great stove for me. But if your worried about overheating your space or short burn times and frequent reloads you should read up on Cat stoves. A Woodstock Keystone, Buck Stove 20, or Blaze king might be a better fit.

If your not interested in a Cat stove then the 17 will give you around 3-4 hr fires at best with good hardwood. My experience with it the few times the temps have been that cold is that it drafts hard and really eats through the wood creating a 2-3 hr reload. Not very ideal if your going to try and run it all night long. I usually get a good last reload before I go to bed which will burn out in 3-4 hours and then my gas furnace takes over before I get up. I'm also heating a lot bigger space in a warmer climate too though. Often I can have enough coals depending on the type of wood I'm burning to restart in the morning with just kindling. Another non-cat you might consider would be the Alderlea T4. It has a shade bigger firebox (same as the neo 1.6) and cast iron jacket which would buffer the heat some and radiate a bit longer possibly helping more through the night than a steel stove.

 

[Squirrel]

Hi, I'm heating 750 sq ft well insulated with lots of south windows near Ottawa with a morso squirrel 1410. It keeps the place warm enough using good hardwood and I let it go out if the sun comes out unless it's below -25C. On warmer days a quick "Flash Fire" gives heat for a couple of hours. Loaded up and turned low before bed there will be a few coals left in the morning and the house will have lost a few degrees.
I would worry about running any larger stove slowly when it's really cold, at -25 I get icicles on the chimney cap. It would be better with a 5" chimney but code says NO!

 

[draughtdude]

Hi, I'm heating 750 sq ft well insulated with lots of south windows near Ottawa with a morso squirrel 1410. It keeps the place warm enough using good hardwood and I let it go out if the sun comes out unless it's below -25C. On warmer days a quick "Flash Fire" gives heat for a couple of hours. Loaded up and turned low before bed there will be a few coals left in the morning and the house will have lost a few degrees.
I would worry about running any larger stove slowly when it's really cold, at -25 I get icicles on the chimney cap. It would be better with a 5" chimney but code says NO!

Squirrel, sounds like you have a nice passive solar design. My folks built and live in something similar... if it's sunny on a January day even at -20 they don't need any heat. Pretty cool. Do you have any photos of your stove firebox? I'm having a hard time grasping how big of a stove it really is without taking a trip to Toronto to see the closest dealer.

 

[draughtdude]

I certainly think the 17 Would heat your space just fine. It's been a great stove for me. But if your worried about overheating your space or short burn times and frequent reloads you should read up on Cat stoves. A Woodstock Keystone, Buck Stove 20, or Blaze king might be a better fit.

If your not interested in a Cat stove then the 17 will give you around 3-4 hr fires at best with good hardwood. My experience with it the few times the temps have been that cold is that it drafts hard and really eats through the wood creating a 2-3 hr reload. Not very ideal if your going to try and run it all night long. I usually get a good last reload before I go to bed which will burn out in 3-4 hours and then my gas furnace takes over before I get up. I'm also heating a lot bigger space in a warmer climate too though. Often I can have enough coals depending on the type of wood I'm burning to restart in the morning with just kindling. Another non-cat you might consider would be the Alderlea T4. It has a shade bigger firebox (same as the neo 1.6) and cast iron jacket which would buffer the heat some and radiate a bit longer possibly helping more through the night than a steel stove.

Maintenanceman, those burn times sound kinda short but I guess it is a small stove. How tall is your flue?

 

[MaintenanceMan]

Right at 15 ft. which is minimum per the manual.

 

[Chimney Smoke]

I use my cabin for hunting and have stayed in it with the temps as low as 15F. The floor of the cabin is not insulated so it loses a lot of heat overnight but when the fire's burning I always have a window open.

 

[Squirrel]

My place was passive solar designed about 1890 (Folks back then were saving firewood too)
Ask and you shall receive!

 

[Tenn Dave]

Hi Guys,

I'm a long time reader of the forums here, but I've come across a bit of a quandry with my new project so I thought I'd join up and ask the folks who know.

I'm currently constructing a 280 sq ft stick-frame cabin close to the northern ontario line where we regularly see -20C in the winter with occasional dips down to -35C, and the occasional -40C. It's actually -15C right now lol.

I want to heat with wood, but am unsure what size to go with, cat or non cat, etc. I had my sights set on a pacific energy neo 1.6 but perhaps that's too big? It's also kinda pricey. I visited the stove store and compared it to a Jotul F100 and the usable firebox size looks the same, but the specs for the Jotul I think are slightly less than 1 cu ft.

The cabin has R42 floors, R22 in the walls, and R36 roof, with appropximately 100 sq ft of window space to make it nice and bright.

Any thoughts on something that won't cook me out but might allow me to wake up reasonably warm?

Thanks,

John

John, with a house that small and tight, be careful about oxygen depletion and carbon monoxide. An outside air kit would probably be a good idea.

 

[draughtdude]

John, with a house that small and tight, be careful about oxygen depletion and carbon monoxide. An outside air kit would probably be a good idea.

Tenn Dave, I had intentions of doing make-up air. I hadn't considered that being dangerous but now I'm thinking about it! Do you think make-up air done well would be adequate? How would you do it?

Squirrel, Thanks for the photo! That little guy looks awesome, and I still can't believe it heats your 750 sq ft! Do you do any overnight burns with it? If so, how long does it last for?

 

[Tenn Dave]

Tenn Dave, I had intentions of doing make-up air. I hadn't considered that being dangerous but now I'm thinking about it! Do you think make-up air done well would be adequate? How would you do it?

Squirrel, Thanks for the photo! That little guy looks awesome, and I still can't believe it heats your 750 sq ft! Do you do any overnight burns with it? If so, how long does it last for?

John. I'm really not qualified to answer your question. I just remember once a few friends of mine were building a small hunting cabin and were planning on using an inside stand alone propane heater. However, the heater had a warning on it that you could not use it in a tightly enclosed space due to oxygen depletion and possible CO poisoning. Please be safe and research this. Better safe then sorry. Good luck.

 

[Squirrel]

I don't do overnight burns. The stove will give off noticeable heat for about 3hrs if loading hardwood on a coal bed. The trick is having decent insulation and air sealing. I don't have make up air and the total air inlet area on the stove is only about 1"sq , the house probably leaks way more than that! I do have CO detectors though.
Before buying the stove I used electric heat for one winter so I could measure the Kwh I used and knew the stove was big enough for a few days at -40 and windy.

 

[saskwoodburner]

Saskwoodburner, thanks for the suggestion. I hadn't heard of this stove before and after some checking it has bumped itself to the top of the list, albeit mostly because I can get it for $800 from the local Canadian tire and it's firebox is nice and small. The modern look is cool too. How big is your place?
?

We're in an old 12x60 for the next couple years. We lucked out and got the stove for $600 before taxes.

I see in your original post your cabin is 280 square feet. The 17 will provide more than enough heat.

 

[weatherguy]

Are you on a budget? One of the blaze king 20's series would probably do the trick with long burn times.

 

[mellow]

I wish Kimberly's were cheaper, seems like a good fit for this setup, also able to use pellet stove piping with them.

(broken link removed)

 

[draughtdude]

Are you on a budget? One of the blaze king 20's series would probably do the trick with long burn times.

Yeah, I am on a bit of a budget so the englander is likely what I'm going to get after the feedback I've received - thanks guys. I looked at the blaze kings and I am worried that a 20 series would be overkill, and physically they're larger than I'd like to put in. The way the cabin will be set up a stove that is less deep and has small back-to-wall clearances would be ideal.

That's not to say I won't upgrade to a cat stove in the future, just to try it out. What about Dutchwest stoves? Are they pretty good?