new here with questions about Osburn 3300 vs 3500 and Chinook 30.2

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marty319

Feeling the Heat
Nov 17, 2014
432
Belair mb
I have the 3300 as well,has been to warm here to let it rip but I think it's going to be a great stove.drafts better that any stove I have ever owned and I have had 3 differant stoves on the same chimney.i also have the blower on mine that really kicks the heat into the room

20211021_071605.jpg
 

BKVP

Minister of Fire
If you buy our Chinook 30.2, you will need the dual fans to help get the most amount of heat projected into the living space. In the shoulder season it may not be needed.

BTW, Cool crib!
 
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SpaceBus

Minister of Fire
Nov 18, 2018
6,446
Downeast Maine
I have a feeling there are two separate 12x8" clay lined flues in the one chimney.
 

begreen

Mooderator
Staff member
Nov 18, 2005
91,415
South Puget Sound, WA
I have a feeling there are two separate 12x8" clay lined flues in the one chimney.
It's why I have been asking for picture of that chimney top.
 

Bethany Waterfall

New Member
Oct 28, 2021
22
schoharie, NY
It's why I have been asking for picture of that chimney top.
Here's a picture of the chimney top. The chimney sweep was excited to hear that the stove could be used with 6" pipe and is very happy to replace the baffle set and keep the stove. He says there is 23' of pipe. The shuttered window is the full height attic. There is one 90 degree elbow from the pipe coming out of the stove where it connects to the brick chimney & clay liner (you can see that in the photo of the great hall below) He recommended using two 45 degree pieces to minimize the horizontal run.
We only ever had one liner and one stove running up through the brick chimney (I had it relined when I bought the house in 2000). I will have to take a picture of the woodstove that was in place when I bought the house. It's pretty amazing. Basically, a massive iron round bonfire box with the classic faces of tragedy/comedy on sliding doors. I replaced that with a VC Defiant in 2000, and then with the Canyon in 2011. It is a heating beast and supposedly 78% efficient, though emissions are about 2.5g/hr.

(previous post edited and corrected manufacture date of Canyon :) Thanks to ABmax24 )

Screen Shot 2021-11-09 at 5.57.41 PM.png Screen Shot 2021-11-09 at 5.42.27 PM.png
Screen Shot 2021-11-09 at 5.42.05 PM.png Screen Shot 2021-11-06 at 4.44.53 PM.png Screen Shot 2021-11-09 at 5.47.00 PM.png
 
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ABMax24

Minister of Fire
Sep 18, 2019
1,327
Grande Prairie, Alberta, Canada
Here's a picture of the chimney top. The chimney sweep was excited to hear that the stove could be used with 6" pipe and is very happy to replace the baffle set and keep the stove. He says there is 23' of pipe. The shuttered window is the full height attic. There is one 90 degree elbow from the pipe coming out of the stove where it connects to the brick chimney & clay liner (you can see that in the photo of the great hall below) He recommended using two 45 degree pieces to minimize the horizontal run.
And I double checked the back of the stove and the Canyon is from 2000, not from 2011 as I had previously thought. We bought it new in 2011, so not quite sure how I picked up a brand new 10 year old stove.... But it is a heating beast and supposedly 78% efficient, though emissions are about 2.5g/hr.
We only ever had one liner and one stove running up through the brick chimney (I had it relined when I bought the house in 2000). I will have to take a picture of the woodstove that was in place when I bought the house. It's pretty amazing. Basically, a massive iron round bonfire box with the classic faces of tragedy/comedy on sliding doors. I replaced that with a VC Defiant in 2000, and then with the Canyon in 2011.
View attachment 285097 View attachment 285093
View attachment 285094 View attachment 285096 View attachment 285095

April 10, 2000 is the date of either UL or emissions certification.

Look at the bottom of that tag, date of manufacture was March of 2011.
 
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stoveliker

Minister of Fire
Nov 17, 2019
3,002
Long Island NY
If you buy our Chinook 30.2, you will need the dual fans to help get the most amount of heat projected into the living space. In the shoulder season it may not be needed.

BTW, Cool crib!

I am surprised. Does the Chinook really put measurably more heat in a room with a fan?
Of course it distributes better, but is that needed here? This is the living quarters, not the big hall (for which a ceiling fan would probably work better anyway).

If indeed the flue gases are cooler with the fan, then shouldn't the OP simply get a larger output stove rather than decreasing the flue temps even more when the engineering is already such that chimneys need insulation, to keep reasonable the temps at the top?

Far be it from me to question you, but I'm puzzled. Could you explain?
 

BKVP

Minister of Fire
I am surprised. Does the Chinook really put measurably more heat in a room with a fan?
Of course it distributes better, but is that needed here? This is the living quarters, not the big hall (for which a ceiling fan would probably work better anyway).

If indeed the flue gases are cooler with the fan, then shouldn't the OP simply get a larger output stove rather than decreasing the flue temps even more when the engineering is already such that chimneys need insulation, to keep reasonable the temps at the top?

Far be it from me to question you, but I'm puzzled. Could you explain?
RWE. Real world experience being shared with us by owners. As to whether it's needed or not, up to the user I guess.
 

Bethany Waterfall

New Member
Oct 28, 2021
22
schoharie, NY
Do you have a basement with easy access for wood wood? Ask because a wood furnace ducted through the floor could be helpful. 10 cords is a lot. I get the ambiance of a wood stove in that space. I wouldn’t want to completely remove it. Just thinking if it economical heat you need that might be one option. Expense of making all these changes now with limited supply of stoves I just want to explore all your options as thinking is free.

Edit… venting is an issue.
actually.... funny you should mention that. I have a VaporFire 100 sitting unused in my basement for the past 5 years. The story of why is long and frustrating. At the time I bought it, I was still running retreats and having regular gatherings here and needed a way to more easily heat the first floor bar, kitchen, and owners quarters in a less back breaking, economical, and eco-friendly manner (I have two LP gas heaters for the kitchen and bar) . Plus, I didn't live here full time so I would drain the house for weeks at time in winter ... and then quickly fire it all up again for family weekends or large gatherings. I wated a non-liquid heating system to replace the gas heaters, and since I was already running one woodstove, the VF seemed the best solution. However, a retrofit installation ended up being quite complicated and expensive and basically made the basement unusable. My partner at the time was overseeing it all, but finishing projects and making decisions was not his strong suit, so the VF sat there for years waiting for the perfect solution. Now that I live here full time, geothermal seems like a much better way to go and will give me freedom to go away for a few days or a few weeks worry free. I am also EXTREMELY sensitive to low frequency fan hum. I love the silence of the woodstoves. Furnaces and fan noise in general usually drive me nuts. The dry blown heat of a furnace plus fan noise plus expensive and complicated duct work means that I now have the unused VaporFire sitting in my basement. Can I interest anyone in a VF100 furnace?
 
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SpaceBus

Minister of Fire
Nov 18, 2018
6,446
Downeast Maine
actually.... funny you should mention that. I have a VaporFire 100 sitting unused in my basement for the past 5 years. The story of why is long and frustrating. At the time I bought it, I was still running retreats and having regular gatherings here and needed a way to more easily heat the first floor bar, kitchen, and owners quarters in a less back breaking, economical, and eco-friendly manner (I have two LP gas heaters for the kitchen and bar) . Plus, I didn't live here full time so I would drain the house for weeks at time in winter ... and then quickly fire it all up again for family weekends or large gatherings. I wated a non-liquid heating system to replace the gas heaters, and since I was already running one woodstove, the VF seemed the best solution. However, a retrofit installation ended up being quite complicated and expensive and basically made the basement unusable. My partner at the time was overseeing it all, but finishing projects and making decisions was not his strong suit, so the VF sat there for years waiting for the perfect solution. Now that I live here full time, geothermal seems like a much better way to go and will give me freedom to go away for a few days or a few weeks worry free. I am also EXTREMELY sensitive to low frequency fan hum. I love the silence of the woodstoves. Furnaces and fan noise in general usually drive me nuts. The dry blown heat of a furnace plus fan noise plus expensive and complicated duct work means that I now have the unused VaporFire sitting in my basement. Can I interest anyone in a VF100 furnace?
I think you could find a buyer for that, especially with the stove shortage. That could fund the relining of a flue and/or a stove.
 
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ABMax24

Minister of Fire
Sep 18, 2019
1,327
Grande Prairie, Alberta, Canada
I am surprised. Does the Chinook really put measurably more heat in a room with a fan?
Of course it distributes better, but is that needed here? This is the living quarters, not the big hall (for which a ceiling fan would probably work better anyway).

If indeed the flue gases are cooler with the fan, then shouldn't the OP simply get a larger output stove rather than decreasing the flue temps even more when the engineering is already such that chimneys need insulation, to keep reasonable the temps at the top?

Far be it from me to question you, but I'm puzzled. Could you explain?

I don't see how it wouldn't add more heat to the room, the Chinook effectively has a jacket around it, much like my Osburn, I definitely notice a difference having the fan on, checking the stove top temp with the fan off and then on also confirms this as the stove top cools off with the fan on.
 

stoveliker

Minister of Fire
Nov 17, 2019
3,002
Long Island NY
I don't see how it wouldn't add more heat to the room, the Chinook effectively has a jacket around it, much like my Osburn, I definitely notice a difference having the fan on, checking the stove top temp with the fan off and then on also confirms this as the stove top cools off with the fan on.

Stove top temp is not that relevant on a jacketed stove. Only the flue temp matters - energy produced, split into two parts, one part into the room, the other into the flue. If the fan decreases.flue temps,.ok. But I don't want that. And the "insulate" advice suggests more energy extraction is not advisable.
 

stoveliker

Minister of Fire
Nov 17, 2019
3,002
Long Island NY
RWE. Real world experience being shared with us by owners. As to whether it's needed or not, up to the user I guess.

Fair enough. If the user pays, you get a margin.

In my experience, user experience matters for economics (after all you sell a utility that needs to meet expectations), but the psychology of user experience adds a layer onto such "rwe-data" that makes it quite unreliable. Good for selling, but I suspect the numbers don't add up, or are detrimental for flue temps.

To the OP, I run a Chinook from my basement, heating a 1700 sqft home above. I don't need to run it full throttle.
I don't see the need for the fan. Yes, it's a jacketed stove, but convection (the purpose of the jacket) extracts the heat. A fan is useful for spreading it around - that depends on your geometry. From my basement it's not needed.

Regardless, look at clearances;make sure you can later add the fan if you want to.
 
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ABMax24

Minister of Fire
Sep 18, 2019
1,327
Grande Prairie, Alberta, Canada
Stove top temp is not that relevant on a jacketed stove. Only the flue temp matters - energy produced, split into two parts, one part into the room, the other into the flue. If the fan decreases.flue temps,.ok. But I don't want that. And the "insulate" advice suggests more energy extraction is not advisable.

I was referring to the actual stove top (call it top of the firebox), not the top of the jacket. Air blowing between the top of the firebox and the jacket cools off the firebox top, which in turn lowers flue temps.

Flue temps though are dependent upon the install and heat load, if the stove is burning hard (as I suspect it would in this particular case) removing a hundred degrees from the flue temps probably isn't a big deal. If the stove is just idling along then no it's probably not the best idea to further cool the stove with fans, but that extra heat isn't likely wanted in the room anyway and the fans would be switched off.
 

stoveliker

Minister of Fire
Nov 17, 2019
3,002
Long Island NY
I was referring to the actual stove top (call it top of the firebox), not the top of the jacket. Air blowing between the top of the firebox and the jacket cools off the firebox top, which in turn lowers flue temps.

Flue temps though are dependent upon the install and heat load, if the stove is burning hard (as I suspect it would in this particular case) removing a hundred degrees from the flue temps probably isn't a big deal. If the stove is just idling along then no it's probably not the best idea to further cool the stove with fans, but that extra heat isn't likely wanted in the room anyway and the fans would be switched off.


Sure, the real stovetop will get cooler. But having more air blow past a lower temp surface does not necessarily transfer more heat into the air as compared to less air past a higher temp surface.

It's the heat capacity and flux exercise. It's a wash in these temperature ranges.
 

bholler

Chimney sweep
Staff member
Jan 14, 2014
27,039
central pa
Fair enough. If the user pays, you get a margin.

In my experience, user experience matters for economics (after all you sell a utility that needs to meet expectations), but the psychology of user experience adds a layer onto such "rwe-data" that makes it quite unreliable. Good for selling, but I suspect the numbers don't add up, or are detrimental for flue temps.

To the OP, I run a Chinook from my basement, heating a 1700 sqft home above. I don't need to run it full throttle.
I don't see the need for the fan. Yes, it's a jacketed stove, but convection (the purpose of the jacket) extracts the heat. A fan is useful for spreading it around - that depends on your geometry. From my basement it's not needed.

Regardless, look at clearances;make sure you can later add the fan if you want to.
In my experience blowers absolutely extract more heat from a stove
 

ABMax24

Minister of Fire
Sep 18, 2019
1,327
Grande Prairie, Alberta, Canada
Sure, the real stovetop will get cooler. But having more air blow past a lower temp surface does not necessarily transfer more heat into the air as compared to less air past a higher temp surface.

It's the heat capacity and flux exercise. It's a wash in these temperature ranges.

All things being equal, if the stove top is cooler it's because it is transferring more heat to the room. Having a higher delta T between the stove top and the flue gases under it also increases the rate of heat transfer to the stove top and allows the blower to extract more heat from the flue gases.
 
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stoveliker

Minister of Fire
Nov 17, 2019
3,002
Long Island NY
Experience or flue temp data?

The bottle neck is the transfer.of heat from the metal plate to the air. With that being the bottle neck, it'll be a wash.

We can agree to disagree.
 

stoveliker

Minister of Fire
Nov 17, 2019
3,002
Long Island NY
All things being equal, if the stove top is cooler it's because it is transferring more heat to the room. Having a higher delta T between the stove top and the flue gases under it also increases the rate of heat transfer to the stove top and allows the blower to extract more heat from the flue gases.

You forget.thay the interaction time.of air and stove top decreases linearly with increased flow speed.
 

bholler

Chimney sweep
Staff member
Jan 14, 2014
27,039
central pa
Experience or flue temp data?

The bottle neck is the transfer.of heat from the metal plate to the air. With that being the bottle neck, it'll be a wash.

We can agree to disagree.
With the princess flue temps don't change with the blower but burn time absolutely goes down.

With the regency flue temps dropped some.

Besides that when I turn the fans on the house gets warmer than with them off.
 

stoveliker

Minister of Fire
Nov 17, 2019
3,002
Long Island NY
With the princess flue temps don't change with the blower but burn time absolutely goes down.

With the regency flue temps dropped some.

Besides that when I turn the fans on the house gets warmer than with them off.


Suggesting that (with the princess, because Tstat) the stove simply burns thru the wood faster,.but not necessarily that more energy per pound burned is transferred into the room.