new Vapor Fire 100 with very poor heat

gary38532

Member
Nov 11, 2019
173
PA
Also, have you ever tried cracking a basement window open a bit? Wondering if your house is too tight to allow makeup air in? I doubt this is it, but easy enough to try.
Do you ever get smoke smell in the house?
That would be the classic "too tight" house symptom...
yes when the stove pipe was wrong it made the stove go to c for like 3 hours. After we changed it to the strait run that it is now. Opening the window has no effect. I get smoke smell when I rake the coals forward. The stove only gets to c for a short period on Medium. Never gets to c on high
 

maple1

Minister of Fire
Sep 15, 2011
10,093
Nova Scotia
Seems to me some accurate temperature measuring at certain spots should be part of the troubleshooting too?

And looking at chimney pics, is the top of chimney below the roof peak? Maybe by a fair amount? Could be perspective.
 
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gary38532

Member
Nov 11, 2019
173
PA
It was even shorter then that believe it or not when the guys rebuilt it in the summer I had them make it higher
 

JRHAWK9

Minister of Fire
Jan 8, 2014
1,230
Wisconsin Dells, WI
Isn't this about where you were when you started out with your VF100 @JRHAWK9 ?
I know I was extremely frustrated with my Tundra furnace when I put it in some years back...it came this close to leaving, unceremoniously! Kept after it though, and got it working well...until lil miss Kuuma came along and tempted me ;lol
Not quite, as mine had always burned great and created heat, it was just moving the heat which I tweaked for what this house wanted by way of lots of experimentation. Turned out I basically was putting too much of too cold of air through the air jacket too fast. Started to pull the air off the basement ceiling and slowed my blower way down.....whallaa. In warmer weather mine would always heat the house fine, not as easy as what it does now, but it was not an issue. Our house is hard to heat though too, lots of volume and not very much insulation where you need it......in the ceiling, as we don't have much of a ceiling to put insulation. LOL

I had a brand new 35' fully insulated 6" ICC chimney ran in completely heated space inside a chase, so I have/had TONS of draft. I had to add quite a bit of weight to my BD in order to get my draft pulled down.
 

laynes69

Minister of Fire
Oct 2, 2006
2,444
Ashland OH
Have you covered the baro with foil and mentioned? While I think a baro is a good idea, I dont feel they are always necessary. In your case...I dont know if one is necessary. The furnace should be able to control the fire with the computer.
 

brenndatomu

Minister of Fire
Aug 21, 2013
4,391
NE Ohio
The main house is very well insulated the living room not so much. Its on a crawel space and has very high ceiling with big windows but I talked to lamppa about it all ready and they dont think its a probelm. Saying they heat homes alot worse then mine.
Going back to an earlier post here...do any of your heat ducts run through "unheated" space...attic, crawlspace, garage?
One thing you can try is to temporarily extend your chimney...just get a 4' (for example) section of 6" stove pipe, or duct pipe...add it to the top of your chimney...stick it down it the flue a foot or so...some pieces of tin, or any thin sheet metal screwed to the side of the pipe will allow it to sit on top of the clay flue...some Roxul, or even fiberglass insulation (no paper on it) can be stuffed in the gap to seal it...not good for permanent, but fine for a day or two...3' more onto the height should give you a boost in draft...if it works you can get an adapter that goes from the clay flue tile to class A pipe to extend the height...
 

gary38532

Member
Nov 11, 2019
173
PA
Have you covered the baro with foil and mentioned? While I think a baro is a good idea, I dont feel they are always necessary. In your case...I dont know if one is necessary. The furnace should be able to control the fire with the computer.
yes I did it didnt help much
 

brenndatomu

Minister of Fire
Aug 21, 2013
4,391
NE Ohio
1574032631642.png

How is the pipe installed/sealed into the chimney there? Pipe stubbed in and insulation stuffed around it to seal it? It has to be sealed.
How far is the pipe sticking in there? I remember hearing of someone who found that the pipe was stuffed so far into the crock that it was all but blocked off.
 

gary38532

Member
Nov 11, 2019
173
PA
Going back to an earlier post here...do any of your heat ducts run through "unheated" space...attic, crawlspace, garage?
One thing you can try is to temporarily extend your chimney...just get a 4' (for example) section of 6" stove pipe, or duct pipe...add it to the top of your chimney...stick it down it the flue a foot or so...some pieces of tin, or any thin sheet metal screwed to the side of the pipe will allow it to sit on top of the clay flue...some Roxul, or even fiberglass insulation (no paper on it) can be stuffed in the gap to seal it...not good for permanent, but fine for a day or two...3' more onto the height should give you a boost in draft...if it works you can get an adapter that goes from the clay flue tile to class A pipe to extend the height...
Ill try to make this happen tomorrow. I'm going to have to fix it myself. Nobody showed up when they said would. I even called the guy that put the chimney in and he said the chimney is fine and refused to help with it. There are ducts that run in a crawl space that's not heated but they are insulated ducts. I'm thinking of extending the chimney with a class a pipe and then adding a smooth six inch liner with no insulation since it wont fit. Hopefully that will be enough?
 

gary38532

Member
Nov 11, 2019
173
PA
View attachment 251590
How is the pipe installed/sealed into the chimney there? Pipe stubbed in and insulation stuffed around it to seal it? It has to be sealed.
How far is the pipe sticking in there? I remember hearing of someone who found that the pipe was stuffed so far into the crock that it was all but blocked off.
the pipe goes in like 3 inches and its not sealed
 

gary38532

Member
Nov 11, 2019
173
PA
oh and that's another thing the manometer was suppose to be here today but something happened (no idea what) and they changed the delivery date to Tuesday. :(
 

brenndatomu

Minister of Fire
Aug 21, 2013
4,391
NE Ohio
I'm thinking of extending the chimney with a class a pipe and then adding a smooth six inch liner with no insulation since it wont fit. Hopefully that will be enough?
I think it would be a big improvement for sure
the pipe goes in like 3 inches and its not sealed
That's a problem! That's where all your draft is going! Seal this up first, then see what you have before lining/extending.
Stuff some paperless fiberglass insulation in there to seal it up...you will want to put some ceramic insulation blanket or Roxul in there for permanent then.
Fiberglass insulation wont burn, but it will melt at about 1300*, so not high enough for a chimney fire.
 

brenndatomu

Minister of Fire
Aug 21, 2013
4,391
NE Ohio
If this solves your draft problem, you will need to reset your baro.
Lining the front side of the weight up with the 4 or 5 should put you in the ballpark until the Dwyer comes...
 

gary38532

Member
Nov 11, 2019
173
PA
I think it would be a big improvement for sure

That's a problem! That's where all your draft is going! Seal this up first, then see what you have before lining/extending.
Stuff some paperless fiberglass insulation in there to seal it up...you will want to put some ceramic insulation blanket or Roxul in there for permanent then.
Fiberglass insulation wont burn, but it will melt at about 1300*, so not high enough for a chimney fire.
 

gary38532

Member
Nov 11, 2019
173
PA
its only a 1/8 in gap... its going to be tuff to get it in there but ill try ones the fire is out. Im going to line it and extend it just because at this point
 

brenndatomu

Minister of Fire
Aug 21, 2013
4,391
NE Ohio
its only a 1/8 in gap...
That, and the "leak" around the baro door is a fair amount of cold air cooling the chimney when you are scratching for every bit of draft you can get.
If I did the math right, that 1/8" is equal to a 2.5 sq inch hole in the chimney.
 

gary38532

Member
Nov 11, 2019
173
PA
That, and the "leak" around the baro door is a fair amount of cold air cooling the chimney when you are scratching for every bit of draft you can get.
If I did the math right, that 1/8" is equal to a 2.5 sq inch hole in the chimney.
So should I take the pipe out wrap the ceramic around the pipe and then force it back in?
 

brenndatomu

Minister of Fire
Aug 21, 2013
4,391
NE Ohio
It looks like a tough spot to work in...from the pic I think I would try to cut strips of the insulation and try to stuff it in the gap with a putty knife, something like that...2 thumbs up if you have ceramic insulation there to use!
Could be that it ends up being easier to pull the pipe like you say though...gonna stink either way I'd say...
 

laynes69

Minister of Fire
Oct 2, 2006
2,444
Ashland OH
Even home depot should have stove cement in caulking tubes this time of year or a farm and garden store if you don't have insulation.
 

gary38532

Member
Nov 11, 2019
173
PA
It looks like a tough spot to work in...from the pic I think I would try to cut strips of the insulation and try to stuff it in the gap with a putty knife, something like that...2 thumbs up if you have ceramic insulation there to use!
Could be that it ends up being easier to pull the pipe like you say though...gonna stink either way I'd say...
ok well its going to have to come apart either way. The manufactor wants me to put a piece of stove pipe in there so the hot smoke never touches the clay
 

brenndatomu

Minister of Fire
Aug 21, 2013
4,391
NE Ohio
Hi-temp silicone
Would be OK for temporary, but only good to something like 550*, so not a good permanent solution...plus gonna be a bugger to get apart later!
The manufactor wants me to put a piece of stove pipe in there so the hot smoke never touches the clay
Huh? Its gonna touch the clay the whole way up, so whats another few inches? For testing purposes (read: tonight) I'd just plug the leak...or if you have some of that "high temp" aluminum duct tape, could maybe wrap some of that around there until you get your liner kit in...would look a lil redneck, but its more about results right now.
Speaking of the liner kit...might want to check before you order to make sure the tee itself will fit down the flue...been a while since I did mine, I can't remember if there was a clamp on the tee that stuck out beyond the OD of the liner itself...
 

brenndatomu

Minister of Fire
Aug 21, 2013
4,391
NE Ohio
Double wall stove pipe may help some too. Although effect may not be significant.
I think that is doublewall, no?