New Vigas 40 on craigslist??

[JimmyJames]

This price seems pretty cheap. I talked to Mark at AHONA awhile back and the same unit is over 6k thorugh him. Could this be a remanufactured unit or a black market non certified unit??

(broken link removed to http://catskills.craigslist.org/app/3678925984.html)

 

[SIERRADMAX]

I think that CL add popped up before and it was confirmed to be a black market unit.

 

[JimmyJames]

I figured it must be. That seemed too good to be true.

 

[henfruit]

BLACK MARKET (black or gray) It is not about the color.

 

[mikefrommaine]

Looks more like someone is importing them here without permission. More than it actually being a counterfeit unit. Could be wrong though.

I guess if nothing else it give you an idea of the profit margin if someone else can buy, import and sell a vigas 40 for 4900. And pay for a lawyer if they are actually breaking any laws.

 

[JimmyJames]

So if it is a black market unit that means no warranty no dealer backing ??

 

[Floydian]

Looks more like someone is importing them here without permission. More than it actually being a counterfeit unit.

I think you are right, Mike. I believe that would be gray market as opposed to black market but I don't know. Still no warranty or dealer support I would think.

Noah

 

[mikefrommaine]

So if it is a black market unit that means no warranty no dealer backing ??

I emailed him to see if he is calling himself a dealer.

Perhaps henfruit can shed some light on this. Does AHONA have exclusive rights to North America? Is this 'situation' something that you have tried to stop with the manufacturer? Is this why you are looking at importing yet another brand?

 

[maple1]

How could this situation exist (assuming black/gray market)?

It would assumedly have to be a manufacturer or distributor somewhere in the world not honoring their contracts?

I would hope it's not the manufacturer - not exactly a good or ethical business practice.

 

[mikefrommaine]

I see henfruit has been by to 'like' a few posts but declined to answer any direct questions.

I would hope it's not the manufacturer - not exactly a good or ethical business practice.

I agree, if it's the manufacturer undercutting its own dealers -- not a good long term stable relationship. Would make me hesitant to buy a vigas. (from anyone)

It would be interesting to get a couple pics of what it looks like under the sheet metal though. Be interesting to compare the build quality of the grey market boilers and the one henfruit sells. Anyone got pics of a vigas with the covers off?

 

[henfruit]

The boilers are the same.It is how they were brought into the US that is the differance. They are not or can not be ul listed.There is no warranty or customer service with the sale.When they are gone there will not be any more for sale.

 

[Floydian]

I'm guessing those boilers are 230v/50hz.

Some time back I recall a few folks buying boilers from kolty.com (Poland, I think) at ridiculously low prices, even with shipping, customs, etc. They don't sell Vigas but I wonder if this is not something similar going on-buy em cheap, undercut the importer and make grand or two.

Not for me...

Noah

 

[Norwegian Wood]

I spoke to this guy a couple months ago.
The units he is selling do not have UL certification.
It seems an entire shipment had botched paperwork & couldn't get the cert.
Thats what he says.
If it true, you can't get a mechanical permit for it from your town, and the insurance company won't know you if anything happens.

 

[mikefrommaine]

Here in maine, if you follow the clearances in nfpa 211 for an unlisted stoves you can get a permit, install it to code and insurance companies won't have anything to say. Other states may have different requirements. But it wasn't too long ago that none of the Vigas boilers had a UL cert.

Clearances for an unlisted stove would be 36 front, rear and top and 18" on the sides I believe.

 

[Blue Tornado]

It sounds like the authorized vigas dealer is a aware of these units and states they are authentic. If you need UL listing or a warranty, do not purchase from this craigslist ad. If you feel you can make any repairs covered by a warranty and do not need UL listing, it is a no-brainer.

What is fair in the world we live in? Free market economies have what rules? If the authentic dealers want to be competitive, they can be. If they want a monopoly, they can go in that direction also.

As a consumer we are often looking for a best price. If a weld fails and my welder is functional, I will fix it and not wait on warranty requirements. If a controller or fan fails and I can purchase a replacement, I will.

For some consumers the $**** extra to get a warranty is the best choice.

 

[henfruit]

( But it wasn't too long ago that none of the Vigas boilers had a UL cert.)

This statment is not true. Also if a boiler is not tested to UL spec. and not listed it is not legal in Maine.

 

[mikefrommaine]

I guess I was getting the ul listing confused with the woodgun. I think they recently got the ul listing. Could be wrong though.

This statment is not true. Also if a boiler is not tested to UL spec. and not listed it is not legal in Maine.

Care to post a link to the pertinent law?

Edit

It was the woodgun that recently announced UL listing. I guess all those pre-2012 woodguns were installed illegally?

https://www.hearth.com/talk/threads/ul-listing-now-available-on-woodguns.81348/#post-1041419

 

[henfruit]

Check with Peter Holmes Senior Inspector State of Maine solid Fuel Board.

 

[flyingcow]

I met the owner of AHONA(importer of Vigas). Spent a few hours talking to him. He's spent a great deal of time and $$$'s to be able to be the importer/dealer of Vigas boilers. I'm quite sure he is responsible that the Vigas UL listed, which cost $$$$'s. Vigas is a very well built boiler. Mark(AHONA) and his network of dealers are here to stay. I'm going in the same direction Bluetornado has stated. Thats what you pay for when you buy through an authorized dealer. For me, anything advertised on Craigs list, proceed with caution. If it was a barrel stove? It's easy to see if it's worth the money. No moving parts, no pressure vessel, etc. A wood boiler with control panels, etc? It's got to be at scrap prices to make it worth the gamble. Who knows, you might be buying a boiler that was underwater after the hurricane Sandy hit. If a container full of these was deemed a loss, they won't be shipped back to the EU. An enterprising sole could turn some quick cash on a boiler a certified dealer wouldn't handle. Just food for thought.

I kind of rambled there, but I want any future people looking at boilers and coming across this site to understand Vigas(IMO) is a good boiler for the $$$'s, bought through a dealer network. Just my 2 cents.

 

[Armaton]

Soooo?

Only the UL listed boiler is the best one on the market? Even though they are exactly the same. A piece of paper, or lack there of, doesn't make the thing work any better (or worse)! One has to evaluate their own situation and determine what is best for them! And if they save several thousand $$$, and one of the parts breaks, just order it from the UL vendor. Or does the lack of the UL listing make the parts not interchange? Strange how the EKO's, as well as these "EXACT" same units, seem to be unacceptable because they didn't once reside close to the Maine/New Hamshire border. Are the EKO's that did reside there still any good?

 

[NE WOOD BURNER]

Obviously This CL poster has broken the CL rules and guidelines by posting as by owner and not dealer? or is he a former dealer? now owner that needs to rid of units he got stuck with because of some quota required from manufacturer/importer of their dealer network.

 

[mikefrommaine]

I wonder if they (ahona) will be dropping the vigas now that they import another line?

And I wonder if the new line is UL listed? Didn't see any mention in the brochure.

http://www.ahona.com/products-viadrus.html

 

[mikefrommaine]

Obviously This CL poster has broken the CL rules and guidelines by posting as by owner and not dealer? or is he a former dealer? now owner that needs to rid of units he got stuck with because of some quota required from manufacturer/importer of their dealer network.

I get the sense that their is more to the story then Henfruit feels comfortable sharing. Which is understandable considering the circumstances.

 

[JP11]

I bought the Vigas because and only because of Mark. I liked him. He answered my questions for two years running at the Fryeburg Fair. Treats everyone great and will answer questions all day long. Doesn't bad mouth anyone else.. but points out what he's selling and why it's better. He was great when it came to getting me the plans and the schematics and helping to troubleshoot those few huh??? moments along the way.

I can't imagine buying something.. ESPECIALLY something from a foreign land where the directions weren't in English to begin with.. and having to "go it" alone. Some might value their time and effort that much. Me.. I wanted to plug it in and get it working.

To each his own. I've often found that I'm better of just writing the check and being done with it... vs chasing a few dollars. Almost always.. the aggravation is around LONG after you remember the great deal you got.

JP

 

[maple1]

Soooo?

Only the UL listed boiler is the best one on the market? Even though they are exactly the same. A piece of paper, or lack there of, doesn't make the thing work any better (or worse)! One has to evaluate their own situation and determine what is best for them! And if they save several thousand $$$, and one of the parts breaks, just order it from the UL vendor. Or does the lack of the UL listing make the parts not interchange? Strange how the EKO's, as well as these "EXACT" same units, seem to be unacceptable because they didn't once reside close to the Maine/New Hamshire border. Are the EKO's that did reside there still any good?

I don't think it's a question of better or worse, or if it's different that a UL listed one. Moreso maybe getting caught without a UL listing when you most need one, say in an insurance claim issue or the like. There may also be an issue too I suppose with not being able to get parts because vendors won't sell to a 'black market' user. You do have some good points though.