Our pediatrician asked if we burned wood ...

[drewmo]

My 5 yo daughter had a routine appointment with her pediatrician earlier this week. One question that took me by surprise was whether we burned wood for heat. I've never had an ounce of worry about burning and effects on our health. Am I missing something? (As a side note, when my daughter heard the question, she promptly answered, "Yes, the wood stove is in the play room." I got a look from the assistant, and another look when I told her we also heat with pellets.)

 

[BrotherBart]

Why didn't you ask them what their concern was?

 

[Babaganoosh]

Now you're on the list...

 

[Wisneaky]

Why didn't you ask them what their concern was?

I agree I would have.

 

[BrotherBart]

It appears that wood stoves are a hot topic with pediatricians now.

http://pediatric-house-calls.djmed.net/respiratory-hazards-of-wood-stoves/

 

[Wisneaky]

Growing up my friend always smelled like wood smoke. His family heated with an outdoor wood boiler. I don't know of he spent every hour feeding it wood or what, but I have an indoor wood furnace and very rarely do you ever smell smoke in my house.

 

[BrotherBart]

The information in the article I linked should be taken seriously. Looks like some solid research in there.

 

[Grisu]

Next time you should add that you use a clean-burning EPA-approved wood stove and point the pediatrician to this study: http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/22852484
People there did not stop burning wood but simply switched to EPA-stoves and saw improvements in respiratory health.

 

[mass_burner]

I'm confused, they mention wood stoves and fireplaces in the same sentence. If the studies were really controlled, wouldn't they all need to using the same stove?

 

[Wisneaky]

The information in the article I linked should be taken seriously. Looks like some solid research in there.

Yes it is a good article. Burning wood probably isn't the best thing for anyone's health. My son has allergies and asthma. He used to have a bad time sleeping at night because he would wake up coughing. This was even before we started burning wood. We were pretty concerned how he would do when we started burning wood. We did a lot of research and asked the Dr if he could prescribe him Singulair and we bought a Honeywell air purifier. He hasn't had any problems since he started taking the Singulair and he can actually run again whereas before he had a hard time breathing. I also think the air purifier helps a great deal.

 

[Grisu]

The information in the article I linked should be taken seriously. Looks like some solid research in there.

The research is solid and one of the reasons why the EPA is/was pushing for stricter emission limits. Nevertheless, the article is written pretty sloppy. Take this one:

Eight family’s studied at the University of Wisconsin Medical Center for very unusual symptoms were found to have high levels of copper, chromium, and arsenic in their hair and fingernails… all eventually traced to their wood burning stove.

Of course, because they burned pressure-treated wood in their old smokedragon. Here is the study: http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/?term=wisconsin+wood+stove+arsenic
However, the article let's it appear as that could be a potential side effect of woodburning.

 

[Wisneaky]

The research is solid and one of the reasons why the EPA is/was pushing for stricter emission limits. Nevertheless, the article is written pretty sloppy. Take this one:

Of course, because they burned pressure-treated wood in their old smokedragon. Here is the study: http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/?term=wisconsin wood stove arsenic
However, the article let's it appear as that could be a potential side effect of woodburning.

Yeah I'm sure marine plywood is full of crap that they put into it. Nice find!!

 

[BrotherBart]

Makes no difference. If it can possibly hurt people's kids they need to do their homework. No low heating bill in the world worth hurting your kid.

 

[Grisu]

Then we better outlaw cars, too, just to be safe:

Motor vehicle crashes kill more children in the United States than any other cause of death. In 2011, more than 800 children aged 14 years and younger died in motor vehicle crashes1 and almost 180,000 more were injured as motor vehicle passengers2 Most motor vehicle-related deaths and injuries are predictable and preventable.

http://www.cdc.gov/safechild/NAP/overviews/mv-kids.html

 

[branchburner]

The information in the article I linked should be taken seriously. Looks like some solid research in there.

It would be really interesting if any data had been collected on types of stoves... are these problems more highly associated with smoke dragons? The article hints in that direction:
"Having a tightly insulated house and using wood burning stoves, especially those that are slow burning, seem to be the culprits.
Burning wood, hot and fast to cut down on the emission seems to be the only answer at present. Some people have suggested that an internal catalytic converter be built into each residential wood burning stove."

The mention of cats as a solution suggest the phrase "slow burning" is not referring to stoves like Blaze King that get long burns, but rather to airtight pre-EPA stoves (like our original 1970s Defiant, that we choked down to a smolder every night).

Keep in mind, tons of people still burn in older stoves, Add to that, the majority of wood burners burn wood that is not optimally dried, even in their newer EPA stoves. I would wager that those burning properly and maximizing efficiency are much less prone to wood-related respiratory issues. But the danger of statistical correlation means they will get lumped in with others as "bad parents" in the eyes of some. (Just as government regulator and environmental sometimes lump all wood-burners together as identical, regardless of vast difference in actual emissions resulting from each individual.)

 

[BrotherBart]

Don't be silly Grisu. If your kid has respiratory problems, which I suspect was the reason for the Doc visit, and you burn wood you need to give it some thought. I don't care how many kids are killed by falling asteroids in this context.

You can have the cleanest burning stove on the planet and burn nothing but natural cord wood and still put pollution in your house. Impossible not to. This site isn't the wood version of the NRA.

 

[mass_burner]

Makes no difference. If it can possibly hurt people's kids they need to do their homework. No low heating bill in the world worth hurting your kid.

Agree , but part of doing your homework is spotting shoddy research and flawed conclusions.

 

[2fireplacesinSC]

The pediatrician probably is just going through a form they were given, either by the government via their electronic health record requirements or something the American Academy of Pediatrics puts out. Respiratory illnesses and ear infections do greatly increase with smokers in the home (not really sure about wood stoves specifically), but they may have also been getting at carbon monoxide exposure and if CO detectors are in the home. Primary care is all about preventive medicine (stop smoking, exercise, look both ways before crossing the road, etc.). Now, when they start asking you about your guns.......

Seriously though, you're the boss if you're the patient. If you don't like them or they get snooty about what you choose to do, go somewhere else. Doctors are just there to help you, if you want it. But there are a lot of them out there to choose from.

 

[Wisneaky]

Don't be silly Grisu. If your kid has respiratory problems, which I suspect was the reason for the Doc visit, and you burn wood you need to give it some thought. I don't care how many kids are killed by falling asteroids in this context.

You can have the cleanest burning stove on the planet and burn nothing but natural cord wood and still put pollution in your house. Impossible not to. This site isn't the wood version of the NRA.

I think some thought should be put into what you actually burn. Those parents should have known better than to be burning marine plywood. I wonder how different the findings would be if they were burning actual dry firewood.

 

[BrotherBart]

And not getting all defensive when a possibility exists. Just I like I didn't when my wife's eye Doc examined her eyes and said "Your husband smokes, doesn't he?". Just asked him the reason for the question.

And accepted the answer.

 

[branchburner]

Then we better outlaw cars, too, just to be safe

Or we could try to reduce some obvious causes of accidents. Every day I commute on a road with thousands of drivers doing 75mph leaving about two car lengths between one another. I assure you, none has ever been cited for "following too closely" until AFTER an accident. (Has anyone?)

I suspect the author of the article BB cited knows very little about stoves, or the article might have mentioned that many stoves already ARE fitted with catalytic devices and many others already ARE designed to burn hot and clean. The author is posing a solution without seeming to know it is already in progress.

 

[moey]

I have asthma and when folks in the neighborhood are burning I notice it. Its a trigger.

 

[jatoxico]

Just like anything thing else, there are concentrations of particulate levels from smoke that pose a health risk to nearly all people exposed. As particulate levels drop fewer and fewer people will be effected until at some point levels are deemed "safe" (this can be a moving target as research changes). Even so, some individuals will be particularly sensitive due to chemical allergy or other idiosyncratic reaction.

Without getting into chronic vs acute respiratory effects, the new EPA stoves are much safer for most people but if you were to find that even using good techniques a family member is having issues you'd have to respond. The article seems to address a wide range of exposure scenarios from open fires in closed spaces which is a major health problem in many developing countries to hydrocarbon sensitivity which, according to the article may effect children disproportionately.

 

[BrotherBart]

All ya gotta do is feed a stove for a month in the winter and then run your hand over the furniture in the stove room.

 

[Seanm]

All ya gotta do is feed a stove for a month in the winter and then run your hand over the furniture in the stove room.

I had a fail today. I started my top down fire and had some back puffing into the house. My bad as I failed to address the air pressure issue. Right before that I was cleaning ash out of the stove and dropped some ash off my shovel into the bucket putting dust in the air (normally I do so very carefully). These aren't normal procedures for me but at the same time I felt like I had made poor choices.... I have kids in the house as well and feel that my burning practices are based on solid procedures outside of the odd whoops. Lots of what I have learned has come from the expertise here. Friends who visit my house don't even notice the stove is on as there is no smell. We had to stop having live Christmas trees in the house due to allergies but the kids seem to be healthy despite the stove and only suffer what we consider normal lung/cold issues that come home from school. BB is correct in the point that you will see more dust on furniture. For me I would have liked to see a more comprehensive article separating wood stoves from fireplaces, epa vs pre epa etc. Since Im not a pediatrician I cant argue against what they say much past the lack of clarification we all seem to be alluding to in this discussion. Good thread either way.