Overwhelmed with the options. Help!!!!

[jenmarie1184]

Hello,

We currently have a propane furnace in our home and my are wanting to do an alternative. We are leaning mostly towards wood, due to the fact that we have a bunch of wood, although we are learning we may not have as much as we thought. I am getting very overwhelmed about which way we should go and I was hoping to get some advice. I know everyone has their own opinions, so I will get many different answers. I just want to take what everyone has to say and weigh it for myself. There is just so much to read and watch, it's a lot to take in.

For reference, I am located in central IN. I have a 4000 square foot home. We have a full size basement, main floor and then upstairs. The hall upstairs opens into the living room below. Also, my office and a tv room are in the basement. We have 10 acres and our closest neighbor is a half mile away. I have been trying to figure out which would use the least amount of wood, but I know that it all matters on a lot of different aspects.

1. Regular Woodstove - this was our original plan, until I found out there were options. If we do a regular stove we only really have one option for placement. In the corner of the kitchen, right next to our dining table. My concern was how hot it would be sitting next to while we eat. Unless you guys think we could get it in the basement and it would work. The guy that came out said that it would do much good for the rest of the house if it was in the basement.

2. Outdoor Wood Boiler - we talked to a couple Central Boiler guys and got prices, but I read on some facebook groups that Heatmaster might be the better brand. The placement of it is also seemingly harder than we thought. Our insurance said it has to be 25 feet from the house. My husband was hoping to have it closer than that. Ideally we did not want to have to walk through the snow trying to fill it. We wanted to put it in a lean to next to the garage so we can just walk out the side door of the garage right to the boiler. It sounds like that it not an option though. We do like that it will also service our water heater.

3. Indoor add-on Wood Furnace - We are looking at the Lampaa Kuuma Vapor-Fire. Seems to be my only option for my size of home. We would want to common it with our current system, as a backup. We would have to build a chimney with this though, since we don't currently have one. Our current furnace sits between a wall and the water heater, but they said we can install it anywhere along the trunk of the duct. With it being in the basement, I'm not that excited about getting wood down here. Plus, I can't find anyone local to talk to about them and/or install them. We could probably do it ourselves though.

4. My husband also mentioned just adding a fireplace, but it won't heat the whole home and I feel it would be a big ordeal for not as much heat.


Any advice, assistance, opinions are appreciated. I've been researching for months and am getting to a point where I just want to forget about it.

 

[cumminstinkerer]

My personal preference is outdoor boiler, the walk out a couple of times a day is really not bad, I load before for I leave for work and then when I bring the dog in for the night. I am running a Polar G2+ and could not be happier, I have been running it since I believe early march of last year, I have storage and run it in the summer as well for all my DHW. I heat the house, pool in the summer, and DHW and it works amazing. My boiler is about 30 feet from my house, the only time its not so nice is in a 40+ MPH wind.

 

[brenndatomu]

We are leaning mostly towards wood, due to the fact that we have a bunch of wood, although we are learning we may not have as much as we thought

How much? Already CSS'd? (cut, split, stacked)
Whatever you go with, it will need dry wood...truly dry wood, not this "seasoned" crap that most wood sellers peddle...the best firewood is CSS'd (with a top cover, sides open) for 2-3 years, depending on species (oak is very slow to dry) and most people will use 3-5 cords per year on average (full cords...128 cubic ft (that's 4'x4'x 8') stacked neatly) depending on your homes heat load, and what you are burning it in exactly...it could be as much as 6-8 cords/yr with a boiler (even more with a bad one!) many variables here though.
How much LP do you use in an average year...and what is the efficiency of the furnace (80%, 96%?) and is LP only for heat, or are you all LP? Knowing your usage will tell you more about how much wood you'd expect to use...a calculation can be done to covert LP to wood usage.

1. Regular Woodstove - this was our original plan, until I found out there were options. If we do a regular stove we only really have one option for placement. In the corner of the kitchen, right next to our dining table. My concern was how hot it would be sitting next to while we eat. Unless you guys think we could get it in the basement and it would work. The guy that came out said that it would do much good for the rest of the house if it was in the basement.

With a house that size a stove would just be supplement at best...and yes, you would not want to have to eat next to it when its running, especially to the front of it!
Basement installs work for some...many times its not the best though, unless the basement is finished and well insulated....and the layout of the home allows for the heat to travel easily upstairs...but many (most) do not.

2. Outdoor Wood Boiler - we talked to a couple Central Boiler guys and got prices, but I read on some facebook groups that Heatmaster might be the better brand. The placement of it is also seemingly harder than we thought. Our insurance said it has to be 25 feet from the house. My husband was hoping to have it closer than that. Ideally we did not want to have to walk through the snow trying to fill it. We wanted to put it in a lean to next to the garage so we can just walk out the side door of the garage right to the boiler. It sounds like that it not an option though. We do like that it will also service our water heater.

This is the Cadillac system...but will be also the most expensive option by far...figure $20-30k to start, depending on your setup, and how much of the install can be DIY'd...but materials still add up quick!
Yes, HeatMaster is a better unit than a CB in my opinion (my family has had both...running a HM G10000 now)
As far as loading...you only have to do it once or twice per day normally, so that helps, but yeah, when its 0* and windy, still no fun.
HM is even rated to be installed indoors, so I would think they'd be able to be installed close to a building...but it all comes down to what the insurance company will approve, and some just hate wood heat so...

3. Indoor add-on Wood Furnace - We are looking at the Lampaa Kuuma Vapor-Fire. Seems to be my only option for my size of home. We would want to common it with our current system, as a backup. We would have to build a chimney with this though, since we don't currently have one. Our current furnace sits between a wall and the water heater, but they said we can install it anywhere along the trunk of the duct. With it being in the basement, I'm not that excited about getting wood down here. Plus, I can't find anyone local to talk to about them and/or install them. We could probably do it ourselves though.

Excellent choice...I have had a VF100 since 2017.
As far as adding a chimney, Menards has good pricing on Selkirk brand stainless steel chimney...I've used it to build several, it works just fine.
Many people have to figure out how to get wood to the basement...a common solution is to take out a basement window, or cut a hole and make a chute to put wood into a bin, or something along those lines. I've seen some very creative solutions to this common problem!
Yes, Lamppa is very good about walking you through DIY installs...they have much of the process already laid out in short video clips on their site.

4. My husband also mentioned just adding a fireplace, but it won't heat the whole home and I feel it would be a big ordeal for not as much heat

Worst option...expensive, and poor efficiency.

 

[mikieb]

Humm... 4000 square feet.... no chimney to work with....

Personally , I would rather leave a warm house and walk outside to load the wood furnace.... instead of, leave a warm house, walk outside and load up with wood to bring it back into the house.... to load a wood stove.

It is a lot better to keep the wood outside, the ashes outside, the occasional smoke roll out, out side... risk of fire, outside.

 

[Tonty]

It seems to me that the easiest option for you would be the Kuuma. A boiler is going to take a lot of work and money, as mentioned. A Kuuma will take some work and money. But, as mentioned, you will be introducing some mess inside.
With that being said, I have an indoor wood-fired gasifier boiler. I love it, heat pipes in my floor, water to air exchanger in my air handler, and all domestic hot water heated during the winter. I don’t need to go outside to load it, I burn it once every 12-24 hours (depending on the outdoor temperature).

 

[maple1]

Some unknowns here. Like, how easy or hard is it to get big things (furnace) and lots of stuff (wood) in your basement. And what the new chimney prospects are. Are you sure there is no other place for a stove on the first floor?

If you don't want to or can't keep wood in your basement, and getting a furnace down there and chimney built for it will have too many obstacles, that kind of leaves an OWB. As mentioned above, the Heatmaster is specd for installing indoors also. Does your insurance company know that?

 

[Micdrew]

Forget the fire place, go with the OWB or the kuuma. But the biggest thing as mention above is start cutting firewood or buy it and let it season.

 

[jenmarie1184]

How much? Already CSS'd? (cut, split, stacked)

Rough measurements put us at about 2 cords.

 

[jenmarie1184]

Some unknowns here. Like, how easy or hard is it to get big things (furnace) and lots of stuff (wood) in your basement. And what the new chimney prospects are. Are you sure there is no other place for a stove on the first floor?

If you don't want to or can't keep wood in your basement, and getting a furnace down there and chimney built for it will have too many obstacles, that kind of leaves an OWB. As mentioned above, the Heatmaster is specd for installing indoors also. Does your insurance company know that?

We do have basement stairs coming from the outside (cellar/storm door type entrance).

If we can put the indoor furnace where I want, then the chimney can come right out to the back of the house and straight up.

I guess there may be one other place, but it would hinder where our tv currently is and there are not a lot of options for the tv location. We have a wall of built ins, lots of entry ways, and door ways in the living space.

 

[Micdrew]

We do have basement stairs coming from the outside (cellar/storm door type entrance).

If we can put the indoor furnace where I want, then the chimney can come right out to the back of the house and straight up.

I guess there may be one other place, but it would hinder where our tv currently is and there are not a lot of options for the tv location. We have a wall of built ins, lots of entry ways, and door ways in the living space.

I have the kuuma in my basement, last year I had a firewood cart to get the wood down in the basement from the Bilco doors, that got old by the end of the season, this year I took an old sliding board that I rigged up with a stand and I shoot that through the basement window, then Built a hopper to hold the wood and contain the mess, I can get about 2 weeks worth of wood in my basement in roughly 30min using my ATV and trailer so there are ways to speed the process up.

 

[cumminstinkerer]

Polar is also approved for indoor installations.

 

[sloeffle]

I don't have much context to add outside of what has already been shared. I've had all three, I installed a OWB this year so I'm somewhat new to it.

Not sure how well your house is insulated, but on the coldest days of the year I'm not sure if a wood furnace will be able to keep up. If your house is insulated well then I think it can, if it's just average insulation then I don't think it will be able to keep up. The only wood furnace that I can think of that would of been able to keep up has been discontinued. Any clue on how many BTU's it takes to heat your house on the coldest days of the year ? Generally your furnace will be sized for this.

I consider a wood stove a room heater. If you like your main living area hot or warm and like your rooms cold then it might be a good option. Just remember, the mess will be in your living area though.

10 acres of woods isn't going to get you far, especially if you go the OWB route. 1 acre of trees grows roughly 1/3 - 1/2 cord a wood a year. Anything you burn over 4 - 5 cords of wood a year is net negative.

Whatever you buy, buy a EPA approved stove, furnace or OWB. Last but not least, run away from a Central Boiler or Woodmaster OWB.

 

[JRHAWK9]

View attachment 304748 View attachment 304749

2 cords hard woods? You'll probably need ~3 times that every year, more if they are softwoods.

 

[brenndatomu]

Yeah 2 cords is almost kindling quantities for full time wood heat...lets say you will use 5 cords per year...ideally you want your wood CSS'd for 3 years, so the ideal would be to have 15 fully dry cords to start out...then you can just make 5 cords per year to replace what you use...its kinda tough starting out until you build your inventory up to proper levels, but slow and steady wins the race...it takes a few years to get to where you should be sometimes...starting out can be tough...

 

[maple1]

2 cords hard woods? You'll probably need ~3 times that every year, more if they are softwoods.

At least. Unless only supplementing.

 

[maple1]

We do have basement stairs coming from the outside (cellar/storm door type entrance).

If we can put the indoor furnace where I want, then the chimney can come right out to the back of the house and straight up.

I guess there may be one other place, but it would hinder where our tv currently is and there are not a lot of options for the tv location. We have a wall of built ins, lots of entry ways, and door ways in the living space.

You would also need to consider possibly having to replace or upgrade ductwork. Wood furnaces have different duct requirements than LP. There is also room for and storage of wood.

I have a boiler in my basement. If I couldn't have my whole winters wood down there too, I'd have been hard pressed to not have the whole works in an outbuilding instead. Moving wood around kind of stinks but IMO the worst way to have to do it is moving it from outside to inside in the middle of winter.

 

[hedge wood]

Jenmarie1184
First off welcome to the forum. My first question would be how much propane do you normally burn? Will your house insurance company let you burn wood inside your house? If they do. Do you want the wood mess in the house? What's your budget for the project? My self I don't want the mess in my house so in 2009 when we went wood I bought a Garn. I wouldn't ever buy a Garn again with all the issues I have had with it. If you go water heater, boiler of some type get one you can put in a small shed and not have to stand out side and load it. Always remember burning wood is a life style. Its takes a lot of time and effort to stay warm with wood. I do use the Garn year around as I heat my domestic water with it. Good luck with which ever way you go.

 

[Marshy]

Hello,

We currently have a propane furnace in our home and my are wanting to do an alternative. We are leaning mostly towards wood, due to the fact that we have a bunch of wood, although we are learning we may not have as much as we thought. I am getting very overwhelmed about which way we should go and I was hoping to get some advice. I know everyone has their own opinions, so I will get many different answers. I just want to take what everyone has to say and weigh it for myself. There is just so much to read and watch, it's a lot to take in.

For reference, I am located in central IN. I have a 4000 square foot home. We have a full size basement, main floor and then upstairs. The hall upstairs opens into the living room below. Also, my office and a tv room are in the basement. We have 10 acres and our closest neighbor is a half mile away. I have been trying to figure out which would use the least amount of wood, but I know that it all matters on a lot of different aspects.

1. Regular Woodstove - this was our original plan, until I found out there were options. If we do a regular stove we only really have one option for placement. In the corner of the kitchen, right next to our dining table. My concern was how hot it would be sitting next to while we eat. Unless you guys think we could get it in the basement and it would work. The guy that came out said that it would do much good for the rest of the house if it was in the basement.

2. Outdoor Wood Boiler - we talked to a couple Central Boiler guys and got prices, but I read on some facebook groups that Heatmaster might be the better brand. The placement of it is also seemingly harder than we thought. Our insurance said it has to be 25 feet from the house. My husband was hoping to have it closer than that. Ideally we did not want to have to walk through the snow trying to fill it. We wanted to put it in a lean to next to the garage so we can just walk out the side door of the garage right to the boiler. It sounds like that it not an option though. We do like that it will also service our water heater.

3. Indoor add-on Wood Furnace - We are looking at the Lampaa Kuuma Vapor-Fire. Seems to be my only option for my size of home. We would want to common it with our current system, as a backup. We would have to build a chimney with this though, since we don't currently have one. Our current furnace sits between a wall and the water heater, but they said we can install it anywhere along the trunk of the duct. With it being in the basement, I'm not that excited about getting wood down here. Plus, I can't find anyone local to talk to about them and/or install them. We could probably do it ourselves though.

4. My husband also mentioned just adding a fireplace, but it won't heat the whole home and I feel it would be a big ordeal for not as much heat.


Any advice, assistance, opinions are appreciated. I've been researching for months and am getting to a point where I just want to forget about it.

Here is something to consider, neither a fireplace or a wood stove is going to heat 4000 sqft by itself. Two or three of either might have a chance. Also, if you are not using a outside air kit on the stove, the house will feel drafty because it will be under a negative pressure from the air the stove is consuming. Just something to be aware as it should be included on the install. Cross those off your list if you are looking to make wood your primary heat source, focus on them if you only want supplemental heat.

I surmise you want to make it your primary heat source and you have a force air system because you said you were looking at a furnace, not a hydronic (water) system like baseboard or in-floor hearting? The answer to this might help some of your options stand out better than others. You didn't explicitly state what you have already. Knowing that will help us help you. No need to reinvent the wheel, you should maximize the use of the existing system you have already installed.

Will your insurance allow you to install an indoor boiler or forced air furnace? That should be your next step before going much further. If the answer is no, then your choices are fewer. If the answer is yes, have you thought about an indoor boiler in the garage? Maybe you have a walkout basement?

I do not own an outdoor boiler but I know they consume more wood than other "batch burn" boilers that have a separate thermal storage tank. One thing I do not like about the outdoor boilers is the emissions they give off. They have come a long ways but are still not as clean as my Froling and other brands. When I made the decision to go with a boiler, getting the wood, smoke and dust out of my living environment was a major benefit. However, I needed it to be easy to operate so my wife could do it. I needed the ability for my oil boiler to automatically kick on if no one could load the boiler, and most importantly I wanted the best efficient system I could afford. I'm happy I bought a Froling, its been super nice with no issues. I did install indoors but built an insulated room off the corner of my basement so nothing had to be inside my house. Even though the Froling has an exhaust that captures and smoke that spills, its still not a 100% effective. The only true way not to have any smoke spillage is to load the boiler with the amount of wood you need, light it and don't open it until it burns out. Anyways, answer those questions and you'll be one step closer.

 

[salecker]

Not all outdoor boilers are inefficient.There are gasifyers that are outdoor units.
I have one hooked to 1000 gallons of storage, i put it inside an out building.
I bought the outdoor version because it was in stock and i wasn't 100 percent sure when the building would get built.

 

[TimfromPittsburgh]

We currently heat our home with a wood fired boiler but started out 40 years ago with an add-on wood furnace to supplement what, at that time, was an oil fired hot air furnace. Both were located in the basement . Based on our experience I would urge you to go the route of an add-on wood furnace in the basement. The reason is that the heat that escapes into the basement from the furnace, duct work and flue helps to keep the basement warm as well as the living space on the floors above. We keep our firewood in a wood shed and bring wood into the basement daily. There is usually not more that one days worth of firewood stored in the basement. The process of stacking the wood and feeding the fire creates a bit of a mess that is easily cleaned up with a broom.

The smoke that escapes into the basement when the furnace door is opened to add wood was a problem. Initially I constructed something like a range hood above the furnace door along with an exhaust fan and ductwork to capture the smoke and exhaust it outside. I have since learned not to add wood until the load of wood in the firebox has been reduced to coals. At that point virtually no smoke is present when the furnace door is opened. A flue temperature gauge will give you a good indication of when it is time to recharge the fire.

The process of removing ashes from the boiler deposits some dust on everything in close proximity to the boiler but I can live with that.

In our case the considerable amount of additional heat we capture by having our furnace/boiler in the basement outweighs the disadvantages.

As a point of reference we burn about 6 cords of wood per year to heat our 2500 square foot home.