PE Summit EBT

[GeneralBill]

A post by skinanbones on a recent PE thread got me wondering about this technology. Rather than hijack, like any self-respecting member this seemed worth a new thread. I've read the numerous write-ups and tests, but have not run across an account for the thermal variation mentioned below.
Is EBT going away? That would say something in itself.
I recall a member just closed it off and thought the stove worked better.
I cannot see how EBT can be very accurate. It is located on the bottom in an airspace, the stove heat source can be either through metal and stove brick, or above that plus a potentially large pile of insulating ashes. With those variations, and others, I can't see how EBT can be counted upon to reliably regulate air flow.

I'm tempted to block her off myself.

 

[theonlyzarathu]

It comes on pretty fadt on my Summit as soon as the firebox gets hot enough. It pretty obvious what its doing. Without the ebt on the gasses just go up the chimney and the particles in them condense on the sides of the chimney. With it you can see it. Last night when the temps were 5 degrees here in northern coastal Maine, I turned it down a bit to LOW. You couldn't see the gasses, but they would obviously built up because the stove would fill suddenly with blue and purple flame burning in a flash, Before I turned it back, there were two areas of burning: 1: small flames near the fire, and 2. blue and purple flames on the baffle with the air holes in it, clearly consuming and heating using the volatiles that would have simply gone up the chimney.

I would never block it. Its what makes a big stove box like the Summit work. Check out the writings at http://chimneysweeponline.com/hoebt.htm.

 

[oldspark]

Mine must not work at all then, I am not convinced it is nothing but voo doo and doo doo!

 

[BrotherBart]

I turned it down a bit to LOW. You couldn't see the gasses, but they would obviously built up because the stove would fill suddenly with blue and purple flame burning in a flash, Before I turned it back, there were two areas of burning: 1: small flames near the fire, and 2. blue and purple flames on the baffle with the air holes in it, clearly consuming and heating using the volatiles that would have simply gone up the chimney.

All non cat stoves work that way.

 

[Todd]

I think it was installed in the Summit just to give it a little boost air to pass the high burn EPA test but also to close down to give it a longer low burn.

 

[theonlyzarathu]

I think it was installed in the Summit just to give it a little boost air to pass the high burn EPA test but also to close down to give it a longer low burn.

EBT was installed in the summit because stoves with big fireboxes have a special problem that small stoves do not have. To make the EPA numbers, with that huge firebox they tend to b urn really hot at the beginning of the burn with all that exgtra oxygen in the secondary burn area, and then nothing later. So PE desgined a thermo controlled opening of that air. Check out the description: http://chimneysweeponline.com/hoebt.htm

 

[oldspark]

Like I said mine dont work and never has to speak of, I have read the description and watched a video on u tube and read comments about it on this forum and you are one of the few who seem to think it is doing something useful.

 

[Hogwildz]

It comes on pretty fadt on my Summit as soon as the firebox gets hot enough. It pretty obvious what its doing. Without the ebt on the gasses just go up the chimney and the particles in them condense on the sides of the chimney. With it you can see it. Last night when the temps were 5 degrees here in northern coastal Maine, I turned it down a bit to LOW. You couldn't see the gasses, but they would obviously built up because the stove would fill suddenly with blue and purple flame burning in a flash, Before I turned it back, there were two areas of burning: 1: small flames near the fire, and 2. blue and purple flames on the baffle with the air holes in it, clearly consuming and heating using the volatiles that would have simply gone up the chimney.

I would never block it. Its what makes a big stove box like the Summit work. Check out the writings at http://chimneysweeponline.com/hoebt.htm.

Your confusing secondary burn with EBT.

 

[theonlyzarathu]

You're confusing secondary burn with EBT.

No I'm not. In the Summit, the secondary burn is entirely dependent on the EBT. The secondary air intakes let air in and out via the EBT technology. When the EBT thermostat closes the air intake, then there is no air in the secondary burn chamber. So while you could conceivably block the holes in the secondary burn chamber to stop the secondary burning, you can't increase the available air to ALL THE TIME, without taking the stove apart and propping the EBT valve permanently open.

 

[oldspark]

Your are wrong about that, the secondary air hole is in the back of the stove and wide open all the time.

 

[theonlyzarathu]

Like I said mine dont work and never has to speak of, I have read the description and watched a video on u tube and read comments about it on this forum and you are one of the few who seem to think it is doing something useful.

So you are telling me that you can't see the two burning areas in the stove? One burning area is near the wood; that is yellow flame. The second one is at the top of the firebox and is buring with a much hotter blue flame(blue is hotter than yellow). You can see the bliue flame coming out of the little holes in the SS secondary buring baffle and above it.

It is possible that if you are burning the stove at 700 degrees, its so hot that it really doesn't need the EBT and the secondary burn chamber, because the heat of the firebox is so intense that it burns everything. For people who use the stove in this FLAT OUT WAY, you may be right that the secondary burn is not of big use to you.

But for someone like me who burns at about 450 -500 degrees, the two different burn areas and the secondary burn is obvious, and especially useful when I want a full burn but don't want to raise the temperatiure in my house to 90 degrees.

 

[theonlyzarathu]

Your are wrong about that, the secondary air hole is in the back of the stove and wide open all the time.

Then your summit stove is either damaged or defective. The hole at the back of the stove is the primary air input, which moves air to the primary valve that you adjust. There is a separate secondary chamber in the back of the firebox that opens and closes secondary air on the big summits. If your's is open all the time then your stove is not operating at it should.

 

[oldspark]

What I am telling you is the secondary air port is wide open all the time, when you lower the primary air it pulls more air through the secondary port, you stated when the EBT was closed no air went into the secondary chamber and that is not true. Talking about how it burns is another matter.

 

[oldspark]

You are digging a hole here, primary air is up front controlled by the lever, take a look you dont have to believe me, what stove do you have.

 

[theonlyzarathu]

You are digging a hole here, primary air is up front controlled by the lever, take a look you dont have to believe me, what stove do you have.

Of course the input to the EBT control of the air is open all the time, if it wasn't then the EBT wouldn't work. But that really makes no difference in the secondary air for combustion. The key item is that that secondary air is not available to the buring chamber except when the EBT system opens the valve.

And of course you control the primary air to some extent, but not completely, since you can't close it down to nothing like you used to do with our old stoves like my riteway model 37.

So even if you close the primary air down to lowest setting there is still a sliver of primary air going into the stove, and you have no control over the secondary air going into the combustion chamber, that's handled completely by the EBT technology. They've built it fool-proof to protect from us fools.

 

[oldspark]

So how is that controling the secondary air if the two are not connected in any way? The hole for the baffle is always available to fire box.

 

[oldspark]

From the smimey sweep site, it has nothing to do with air going into the secondary chamber.
"Basically, the EBT device is a pivot plate which is mounted over a hole in the stove's primary air intake plenum so that it covers and uncovers the hole when it pivots"

 

[begreen]

Your are wrong about that, the secondary air hole is in the back of the stove and wide open all the time.

Then your summit stove is either damaged or defective. The hole at the back of the stove is the primary air input, which moves air to the primary valve that you adjust. There is a separate secondary chamber in the back of the firebox that opens and closes secondary air on the big summits. If your's is open all the time then your stove is not operating at it should.

There definitely is some confusion here. The Summit/T6 has a large primary air port at the front, right of the stove. The air control moves a simple slider valve over this 1.25"? hole. The EBT is also on the front and feeds the boost air manifold in front of the stove through a smaller hole in the EBT. The secondary port is open and unregulated at the back of the stove.

I have to re-examine the Spectrum's air control system. From memory, I thought the T5/Spectrum stoves are different in that there is a linkage between the primary air control and the secondary air opening in the back so that air valves work both. I am not sure if this is done proportionately or not. Next week I hope to get under my neighbor's Spectrum with a camera to document its action. And if there is a mystery small hole up front, I would guess that is for the boost manifold, but have not confirmed this yet.

 

[oldspark]

BG we are just talking about the EBT thing, the t5 issue is another thread.

 

[begreen]

I know that. The point was to clarify the differences.

 

[Hogwildz]

Someone is most definitely misinformed, and apparently knows everything about the Summit.
No sense wasting your breath trying to explain to someone that knows it all.
All I will say again, is you are confusing secondaries, with EBT.
BG & OldSpark, I'll leave it to you guys. But think your wasting your breath.
Good luck

 

[begreen]

Nah, I've been in this dialog a dozen times before. I'm heading off to work.

 

[oldspark]

With no back up I am out also, thanks guys. :lol:

 

[Jags]

With no back up I am out also, thanks guys. :lol:

OHHH....COME ON...I was just starting to get all riled up.

 

[tim1]

I currently have the ebt off my summitt for repair, would you like to see a photo of the bottom of stove where the boost air enters the front of the stove through a 1/2 hole into the primary air supply? And the open slot for the secondary air. Tim