PE Super Insert Overfire/cracked welds?

[KpR]

Good afternoon everyone,

I had a bit of an overfire last night with insert face temps up at 850+. Things came under control easily once the air was closed down and the blower turned up, but...an overfire nonetheless.

I just went to have an inspection of the firebox and found what may or may not be some cracked welds on the front frame, just inside the door. I can't say I have ever looked for these before, or inspected this particular spot on the insert so can't say if what I am seeing is something of concern or some variant of normal for the PE Super Insert that is in it's 5th season.
I've attached some pics--two from each side, upper right and upper left of frame inside of door. (pics with insulation on the right are from the left side of insert and with insulation on the left from the right side)

Are there any PE experts or fellow owners who might be able to chime in?
Thanks!

 

[KpR]

After searching the forum some more I came across plenty of PE cracked threads from 2009ish through 2011.
Brotherbart frequently linked other users to this thread "https://www.hearth.com/talk/threads/42141/ " but the link is no longer active. Does anyone else have a problem with the link?
Any chance someone can direct me to a current link for that thread? Thanks.

 

[begreen]

850º on the face of the insert is very hot. It's likely that the flue area was glowing red. The cracks you have shown appear to be different from the cracks in some of the 2009-2011 series A Summit inserts. IIRC they were in the upper corners of the stove face at the door opening, not sure if there were weld cracks like these also. Hogwildz can provide more insight.

Have you checked the liner?

PS: I put in a report on the thread not opening. This has happened a couple of times since the forum upgrade.

 

[Woody Stover]

Looks like something that may be repairable..?

 

[begreen]

Yes, if there are no other issues.

 

[webfish]

After searching the forum some more I came across plenty of PE cracked threads from 2009ish through 2011.
Brotherbart frequently linked other users to this thread "https://www.hearth.com/talk/threads/42141/ " but the link is no longer active. Does anyone else have a problem with the link?
Any chance someone can direct me to a current link for that thread? Thanks.

Here is the link, error in the software is sometimes impacting these old ones.

https://www.hearth.com/talk/threads/agitated-w-stove-marketing.42141/

 

[begreen]

The boss decoded that thread problem, (thx) but it is not specific to the cracks.

Agitated w. Stove Marketing

I know, I should be thankful - It's Thanksgiving. However, I'll make exception for all of us that have been shopping stoves... and doing everything we can to research our upcoming investment. So.... here goes.... CURSES TO THE MANUFACTURERS... who refuse to cough up important information that...

www.hearth.com

 

[begreen]

Here is a thread that's specific to weld cracks in the series A Summits.

Pacific Energy cracked welds

Hello, Thought I would start a spin-off from another thread (if I'm out if line Mods, just delete it). It seems that welds cracking in the firebox of some of the PE stoves is not that isolated of an incident. I'm not attempting to stir anything up, or smear PE at all here (I like my Super 27)...

www.hearth.com

 

[ABMax24]

No doubt those are cracks in the welds. But they do look repairable. The 4th pic looks like the crack started from cold lap (lack of fusion) at the toe of the weld and propagated from there, which I'm not surprised about as it looks like it was MIG welded and that can be a common issue with it.

To fix it completely grind out the crack and reweld. I'd re-weld it using a stick welder and 7018 electrode.

 

[sigepsb]

I also have a Super insert that's on its fifth season. The hottest I've ever had it, is about 650 degrees measured above the door, in the spot people commonly like to use on this stove. I believe most people have accepted that's about a hundred degrees below the stove top. So, about 750 degrees total for my Max temp.

I got curious after seeing your photos, and took a look at mine, to find what appears to be similar cracks in the exact same spots. Mine appear to be a bit smaller, and more along the edge of the weld for the most part. There is currently a fire going, so when I get home Sunday night and it's cooler I will try and look more closely and get pictures. I've only ever had one incident, but like I said it peaked around 650 degrees on the stove face, which most people on here seemed to think was acceptable- so maybe yours was already cracked?

 

[vwmike]

It’s a common spot for the PEs to crack. My Vista insert was cracked there and was always run hard and with it cracked. When I got my used summit it was also the only spot I could find that was cracked, this one I ground down and welded and it’s holding up fine, but it doesn’t get run very hard to heat this place!

 

[KpR]

Thanks for the responses, and the re-linking.
I will be taking the baffle down today and inspecting the liner. Aside from obvious damage to the liner is there anything else in particular I should be looking for?
In the 'Pacific Energy cracked welds' thread linked above (thanks begreen) BrotherBart linked to a thread for pictures of the problem, though the link is not redirecting properly. Can you fix this link as well, webfish? : https://www.hearth.com/econtent/index.php/forums/viewreply/880797/
Thank you.

 

[sigepsb]

Yup. Mine too, and I think I've been pretty darn careful.

 

[KpR]

Cleaned out the ash, took the baffle down and inspected the liner today and nothing newly abnormal to note. Some dimpling of the liner (I have the double wall smooth flex liner) that I have been keeping an eye on, but nothing new.

In terms of repair, short term vs. long term--is grinding down and welding the only recommended route from here? Any other recommendations? Thanks all.

 

[Lumberjack]

Go back to PE.....it's a known issue. I had the Super insert as well....my first one cracked....bad design. My dealer was able to get me a new one under warranty.

When I was going thru it, it wasn't something really worth welding, had to cut top off stove ect ect. Swapping them out was pretty easy.

I did love the large glass on those stoves.

One thing I did to mine at the time was to bend the tab that limits how far you can close the air off to allow it to choke down more. Sometimes fully closed wasn't enough and that helped.

 

[Hogwildz]

Yes, that was a common issue with the A bodies. Not sure about the B bodies. My theory is the air wash angle up top was expanding causing pressure outward to each side & corner. The newer style seems to have a gap on each side. If you were to fix, I personally would cut a gap on each side of the air wash angle steel where it meets at the sides.

 

[Hogwildz]

Issue with the B body confirmed.
Found another issue also. Channel steel at air wash chamber in front cracked vertically, and also looks like the steel is de-laminating. This is interior of the stove, and no damage to outer plating. Peek a boo
I did get the chimney swept, new baffle & side insulation blanket in at least.

 

[crepitus]

Hogwildz I have a summit insert. Is it normal to have warping of the baffle after 2 years of burning?

 

[saydinli]

Hogwildz I have a summit insert. Is it normal to have warping of the baffle after 2 years of burning?

Yes the baffle warping a bit is normal. More than 1/4” is not normal as per PE.




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[Woody Stover]

Yes the baffle warping a bit is normal. More than 1/4” is not normal as per PE.

The new T5 baffle sags in the center but I don't think it's 1/4", and I don't think it's progressing. I can see secondary flame in the back, where secondary air comes out between the bottom/rear of the baffle and the rear rail. That gap is created by the bowed baffle, which only touches the rear rail at the low center-point of the bow. You can see see the flame as a horizontal line behind the brighter front flames.
I guess a guy could coax the baffle flat again in a vise or something, if there's nothing inside that could be damaged. But I'm not convinced yet that it burning back there is necessarily a bad thing..

 

[crepitus]

Mine is definitely warped more then 1/4 inch but still seems to operate fine. It's warped in the front back still seals fine. Are they warrantied?

 

[begreen]

Yes, they are.

 

[Hogwildz]

Hogwildz I have a summit insert. Is it normal to have warping of the baffle after 2 years of burning?

Yes, and as years go by, it will warp more & more. But is still just as functional. BG is the only member I know that has not had substantial baffle sag, not sure if it is because it's a T6 or not. They did change the lifetime warranty to a "10 year 1 time lifetime warranty". The front to middle warps, the back typically doesn't as it has more support & beefiness back there.

 

[Hogwildz]

The new T5 baffle sags in the center but I don't think it's 1/4", and I don't think it's progressing. I can see secondary flame in the back, where secondary air comes out between the bottom/rear of the baffle and the rear rail. That gap is created by the bowed baffle, which only touches the rear rail at the low center-point of the bow. You can see see the flame as a horizontal line behind the brighter front flames.
I guess a guy could coax the baffle flat again in a vise or something, if there's nothing inside that could be damaged. But I'm not convinced yet that it burning back there is necessarily a bad thing..
View attachment 251883

Secondary flames in back is as designed. There is nothing inside that baffle with exception to the rear, which has 3 tab between the top & bottom shells. I posted a baffle post with photos and explanation.