Picking a wood stove for a 30x36' hoop house.

[DancingWolf]

I'm hoping someone has some experience in picking an adequate wood stove for a hoop house (30x36', 6 mil poly film, single wall, 13-14' high in the center). Its in USDA zone 8B of Texas and we don't have too many nights below freezing, but it does stay 16-24*F for three consecutive says out of the year at some point and there are plenty of cold nights between November 15 and March 15. I'm growing Cactus and succulents inside it and I want to keep it a minimum of 45-55*F inside all winter. It will also contain vegetables near spring. The stove will be on a treated 2X6 floor, probably with a piece of concrete board and patio stones for a hearth.

Wood supply isn't an issue, I already burn it in brush piles to remove it, I'm constantly clearing brush. Most of what I'll be burning is cedar and bird berry (thicker trunk pieces), mixed with southern live oak as it becomes available. I'm aware of the creosote buildup from cedar and that it burns faster and hotter than other woods, so hopefully I can get a stove that handles it, or work around it with a smaller fire, heat loading the greenhouse during the day, etc.

The list:
Right now I'm looking at the Drolet HT2000 (probably out of my price range), Drolet Austral II, and the china harbor (northern tool) Model 2016EB. I prefer to avoid anything from China, it rarely lasts, but people seem satisfied with the Northern Tool 100,000BTU unit. The Vogelzang ponderosa also peeked my interest for its price and box capacity, but its from China. I would love to opt for the Model 2016EB for its price but the question is... will it hold up for at least 5-10 years? I'm picking up locally from either Costco or northern tool, and its tax exempt so I don't have to worry about that. I also looked at the Englander 30, but the thinner 1/4th inch metal has me shying away since if it got sprayed with water, it might warp.

Cost is an issue, $1,000 is my budget, $1200 if its super good. Efficiency isn't a priority, just durability and cost, I can always get more wood.

I'm estimating I'll need a bare minimum of 40,000 BTUs but don't want to refill the firebox every 4 hours, so a bigger 75,000 BTU+ unit is desirable. I don't want used, or cast iron. Cast iron, as nice as it is for storing heat, its too inefficient and will burn through wood like its candy.

Please no rocket stoves, barrel stoves, or hot water heaters!

Any information on the federal rebate program is great too. I stumbled over https://www.hearth.com/talk/threads/epa-updated-list-of-595-certified-stoves-for-2020.176138/ , but that list is tiny. Whats the incentive for people to get an EPA stove if only a handful qualify? Seems like a silly program.

Much love

 

[begreen]

The Englander 30NC should work ok. I don't think it will warp, but keep it dry. Any wood stove that gets water sprayed on it is going to rust.

There is no Federal tax credit for wood stoves in 2019. The list you are reading is for a different purpose. They are stoves that have qualified for the 2020 reduced emissions regs that go into effect next year. That list is growing steadily as tests are completed.

 

[DancingWolf]

I looked at the coin I have coming in and anything over $1,000 just got ruled out, too expensive, including the Englander-30. Further research revealed the Northern Tool model (china) to be junk since the fire can't be controlled without modifications.

Currently looking at the 50-TRSSW01, 02, and NC-13 models, (Madison/Englander). The 02 model is $100 cheaper than the Englander 30, with comparable specs, the 01 is $325 less and the blower is also included with both models.

I'm curious as to the burn times on the 50-TRSSW01, 50-TRSSW02. My purchase comes down to the burn time @ BTU output since its a quarter mile walk to the greenhouse and it will be ruinous if all my plants (business) die. I'm seeing one person on this forum got six hours out of the W01 but I don't know what the settings were for that. If someone has the averages times for a max and minimum burn on these three models, I would love to know since I plan to pick one tomorrow and order it. They range from $675 to $900, delivery to my drive way included.

I know the NC-13 is usually a 5-6 hour burn time, but is that minimum or maximum heat output / airflow? Likewise with the W01 and W02 models. I'll be loading the stove at around 11:59PM. I would like to get at least 6 hours usable heat out of the stove, it needs to produce 30,000 BTU minimum per hour. For a 60,000 BTU stove, does that end up being two hours?

How are people on this forum measuring their burn times? Is it at the minimum burn rate, maximum burn rate, or a comfortable (in between) burn rate?

 

[begreen]

The Englander 30NC can be found for under $1K if one shops around. The 50-TRSSW01 (Madison) has earned praise. It's smaller by almost a cu ft than the 30NC and that will affect burn time length, but it is less money. The 13NC is smaller still and probably a bit tiny for this application. The 50-TRSSW02 has had issues with the door warping and hard to control burns due to door gasket leaking. Not sure if they have fixed this yet.

 

[DancingWolf]

I can inspect and replace gaskets, thats simple enough and less than a $50 fix, parts are at a local hardware store. Warped doors are probably covered under warranty and this cosmetic blemish / refurb model comes with full warranty. I'll ask specifically about the door on the W02 and if it has been inspected. Not worried about smoke getting into the greenhouse, it doesn't hurt the plants.

Winter is here and I'm out of time to shop around or wait for a too good to be true deal to come along. I wanted to get this in the dead of summer but was getting no help from family with it. Every too-good-to-be-true holiday deal or special sale has usually resulted in a broken or severely defective unit. I suspect stores try to get rid of their problem units during these events.

Erring back at the NC-13, I entertained it because of the price and knowing its quality, but it probably is too small so I'm left with choosing between the two Madisons. One blemished, the other a refurb. 2.45cuft / $750 shipped, or 3.2cuft / $900 shipped, both include blowers.

I'm erring to the W01 since I will probably only have to run it like a pyromaniac during the occasional hard freeze and its within my budget, but its hard to pass up a fat firebox.

I can only find an estimate burn time with the search function based on firebox size, but no stove settings or models to back it.
I wish I knew how many BTU/hour they produced and for how long, since the nice big sticker BTU isn't much to go on. The NC-13 on Timber Ridge says 60K/hr but thats in the manufacture's lab, maximum. In reality, it could be less than half that.

• <1.5 cuft: 3-5 hours
• 1.5-2.0: 5-6
• 2.0-2.5: 6-8
• 2.5-3.0: 8-9
• >3.0: 9-10
  
  I'll need to sleep on it but the W01 seems like a good pick. I may cringe, draw from savings, and pay out for the W02 though.
  
  I do appreciate the heads up on the door issues, can only find one thread about it though.

 

[peakbagger]

The concern I would have is air circulation. With minimal insulation in the walls and a high ceiling there will be a significant temperature difference between the out walls and the area where the stove is located. I would suggest that a wood furnace designed to be hooked up to flexible ductwork would be better for air circulation. Something like this https://www.adctubes.com/products/flowcon-poly-duct-conventional-tubing/ Note the photo of its use in greenhouse.

 

[EatenByLimestone]

If you're burning brush, I dont know if you can put any stock into advertised burn times, or even those experienced by other burners. Your brush is going to have lots of surface area and is going to burn fast. Your going to have 2.5 cubic feet of kindling.

 

[DancingWolf]

Anything with a 3" diameter and bigger, brush goes to the burn piles. I'm working on getting access to the dead oaks around my area but they are very over grown in brush. Cedar is abundantly available, specially after a severe drought a few years back. Of course I am asking about burn times with the old "seasoned hardwood", its usually the point of reference.

 

[Easy Livin’ 3000]

Anything with a 3" diameter and bigger, brush goes to the burn piles. I'm working on getting access to the dead oaks around my area but they are very over grown in brush. Cedar is abundantly available, specially after a severe drought a few years back. Of course I am asking about burn times with the old "seasoned hardwood", its usually the point of reference.

Whichever stove you pick from the ones you are looking at, you'll have way less heat at the end of the burn than from the first few hours. I am sorry to say, for your application, these types of stoves are not the solution you are looking for, particularly if it's your living/business.

If you want to heat your greenhouse with wood, you'll probably need a wood boiler with storage. And that will be way outside of your current budget. But, your fuel will be free, maintaing it will be way more manageable, and your plants alive at the end.

You don't want to hear this, but trying to chase a consistent level of warmth in a greenhouse that's a 1/4 mile away with any of the listed stoves will end in a greenhouse full of frozen plants. These stoves are the furthest thing from set it and forget it.

Sorry to be the bearer of bad news about your idea.

 

[barnaclebob]

Whichever stove you pick from the ones you are looking at, you'll have way less heat at the end of the burn than from the first few hours. I am sorry to say, for your application, these types of stoves are not the solution you are looking for, particularly if it's your living/business.

If you want to heat your greenhouse with wood, you'll probably need a wood boiler with storage. And that will be way outside of your current budget. But, your fuel will be free, maintaing it will be way more manageable, and your plants alive at the end.

You don't want to hear this, but trying to chase a consistent level of warmth in a greenhouse that's a 1/4 mile away with any of the listed stoves will end in a greenhouse full of frozen plants. These stoves are the furthest thing from set it and forget it.

Sorry to be the bearer of bad news about your idea.

Agreed,

OP would be better served with a propane shop heater and a 30gal tank (not sure if that size is appropriate, im not an expert on them). It would work better and come within budget.

Going with wood heat because you have free wood in this application is being penny wise and pound foolish.

 

[DancingWolf]

For a 1080Sqft hoop house? Last time I ran calculations, I needed around 1,500 gallons of propane to heat it, Alternatively, around $1,500 for electricity, money I do not have.

I do heat my small greenhouse with a China brand space heater, it does a good job and an 11,000 BTU patio heater which is great for pushing the temps up and letting the space heater slow down the cooling. My only gripe is that the patio heater eats up all the oxygen after a few hours and eventually produces CO gas. By the time it cuts off from lack of oxygen, there is about 300 PPM of CO gas in the greenhouse and I have to vent it during the daytime when its above freezing. I do have a detector in there during the winter, Kiddie model, the rest of the time its in the house.

I know plenty of people use double barrel stoves with great success to heat their greenhouses, even large ones, so I'm not about to rule out stoves. But drum stoves are >7 cubic feet. I was looking at new barrels at the time, but like-new / used are $20 a piece all over Texas meaning a 7CuFt box (double barrel stack) is < $200 but of course its not efficient.

 

[Easy Livin’ 3000]

For a 1080Sqft hoop house? Last time I ran calculations, I needed around 1,500 gallons of propane to heat it, Alternatively, around $1,500 for electricity, money I do not have.

I do heat my small greenhouse with a China brand space heater, it does a good job and an 11,000 BTU patio heater which is great for pushing the temps up and letting the space heater slow down the cooling. My only gripe is that the patio heater eats up all the oxygen after a few hours and eventually produces CO gas. By the time it cuts off from lack of oxygen, there is about 300 PPM of CO gas in the greenhouse and I have to vent it during the daytime when its above freezing. I do have a detector in there during the winter, Kiddie model, the rest of the time its in the house.

I know plenty of people use double barrel stoves with great success to heat their greenhouses, even large ones, so I'm not about to rule out stoves. But drum stoves are >7 cubic feet. I was looking at new barrels at the time, but like-new / used are $20 a piece all over Texas meaning a 7CuFt box (double barrel stack) is < $200 but of course its not efficient.

Math isn't my strong suit, but 2 barrel at $20 each and $40 for a kit, I guess you figure about $120 for the chimney/stove pipe?

Do the folks who do this load the stoves all through the night for 3-4 months?

And you are right, the barrel stove will put out much more heat than the stoves you are looking at, and use many, many cords of wood to do so.

 

[Highbeam]

Running my nc30 near the top of its safe output range gets me 3 hours per load of PNW firewood species. You're not going to like keeping a remote building warm with a stove like that. It's likely not even possible unless you go back every few hours to reload and adjust the intakes. Wood heat in outbuildings is always challenging.

I use the big 3.5 noncat to keep my shop above freezing for chemicals and water lines. 1800SF well insulated with a concrete slab. Wild swings in temperature when burning to charge the thermal mass and then the shop cools slowly.

 

[DancingWolf]

I have several feet of flute pipe (single wall) and a few joints lying around, thats not much of an issue. Being a broke redneck means I don't throw much away since it can usually be used to repair something else or repurposed. The stove its self would be less than $100 and burn anything I can throw in it, they last around 4-10 years depending on use. I wouldn't have any qualms about throwing a bunch of cedar wood in it either which is near by, free, and in abundance, the trees have also been dead for years. Though I would probably mix it 50/50 with oak so it doesn't overheat.

The stove won't be running full blast except on the coldest nights (2-6 nights) of 16*F most winter lows are in the high 20s to low 30s, it has to run hot enough to maintain a minimum of 45*F which is where a lot of my plants go dormant at.

1/4th mile isn't that far to walk and I have to anyway to walk my dog before bed, he won't use the front lawn.

I originally discounted the barrel stove because I didn't find any steel drums with lids for cheap. I figured if I was spending $100-200 per new drum, I might as well get a well constructed heater. I never checked craigslist and they are basically free in the area, so I'm going with a double barrel stove kit and I'll just paint it and make it look real nice. I still have some high temp silicone paint lying around too. Barrel stove should give six hours of fire and 12 hours of hot coals and I'll have money to build the floor too! Will get 4-6 barrels, if it works well, someone else wants one.

The madison stove I was looking at is on AM-FM energy which I stumbled over while rummaging through the search function here.

Many thanks for all the advice and pointers. I'll report back with how well or poorly it works and what I feed it.

 

[Easy Livin’ 3000]

I have several feet of flute pipe (single wall) and a few joints lying around, thats not much of an issue. Being a broke redneck means I don't throw much away since it can usually be used to repair something else or repurposed. The stove its self would be less than $100 and burn anything I can throw in it, they last around 4-10 years depending on use. I wouldn't have any qualms about throwing a bunch of cedar wood in it either which is near by, free, and in abundance, the trees have also been dead for years. Though I would probably mix it 50/50 with oak so it doesn't overheat.

The stove won't be running full blast except on the coldest nights (2-6 nights) of 16*F most winter lows are in the high 20s to low 30s, it has to run hot enough to maintain a minimum of 45*F which is where a lot of my plants go dormant at.

1/4th mile isn't that far to walk and I have to anyway to walk my dog before bed, he won't use the front lawn.

I originally discounted the barrel stove because I didn't find any steel drums with lids for cheap. I figured if I was spending $100-200 per new drum, I might as well get a well constructed heater. I never checked craigslist and they are basically free in the area, so I'm going with a double barrel stove kit and I'll just paint it and make it look real nice. I still have some high temp silicone paint lying around too. Barrel stove should give six hours of fire and 12 hours of hot coals and I'll have money to build the floor too! Will get 4-6 barrels, if it works well, someone else wants one.

The madison stove I was looking at is on AM-FM energy which I stumbled over while rummaging through the search function here.

Many thanks for all the advice and pointers. I'll report back with how well or poorly it works and what I feed it.

I appreciate your can-do attitude, and frugality. That said, 1/2 mile round trips to load the stove and keep up with it all through the dead of winter has me exhausted just thinking about it. I look forward to seeing your reports on how it works for you. Maybe 20 years ago, I'd have had the gumption to try it, too. This is the kind of experience that builds wisdom!

 

[jetsam]

Ace Hardware is currently advertising the 30nc for $750, and Lowes is advertising it for $800. You can get 'em even cheaper if you wait for spring.

It might be more expensive than a barrel, but it also won't burn through and dump the fire on the floor when you're not there.

 

[Ashful]

So, semi-frequent $50 gasket jobs and potential door swaps (the warranty ain’t that long) are fine, but an extra $100 to step up to the proven NC-30 is out of the question?

 

[Easy Livin’ 3000]

So, semi-frequent $50 gasket jobs and potential door swaps (the warranty ain’t that long) are fine, but an extra $100 to step up to the proven NC-30 is out of the question?

I think you are missing the point, here. We are trying to heat a big, plastic wrapped hoop house with a stove that is 1/4 mile away from home, to keep plants alive through winter, and you are arguing the merits of different Englander stoves? At least the barrel stove is a cheap lesson.

 

[DancingWolf]

The model on Ace hardware is the 1,800 Square foot 13NC model, not the 2,400Sqft 30NC. The difference is greater than $100, the cheapest NC-30 I've found is at home Depot for $999, + $10 gas. The Madison W01 is $750 delivered to my drive way, but I know you are referring to the W2 which I've turned down due to price. Money matters and when you don't have it, you don't have it, no amount of rubbing pennies together will make it appear. The stove isn't my only expense.

I ordered the stove kit, gaskets, cements, silicone, etc, all the parts I need to do a good job. I already have all the drills and tools. I didn't have access to cheap barrels at the time I first looked at the kits so the idea went to the sidelines, now that there are available barrels, its the option I've picked. According to people that use it, it keeps a fire going for several hours and heats greenhouses well enough worry about wood not being perfectly seasoned.

 

[SpaceBus]

Let us know how it works out for you!

 

[jetsam]

Yeah, I searched for 30nc and it gave me results for 13nc :/. I don't see any new $750 ones out there either.

 

[Highbeam]

For this little experiment, the barrel stove is probably a decent idea. Keeping a hoop house heated is not cheap, not easy, and the results of failure could be quite expensive depending on what you're trying to keep warm. It's one thing to extend the growing season a little but not all winter without something far more effective and automatic.

Keep it very cheap and safety isn't quite the top consideration when this is an unoccupied tent out in the yard.

 

[EatenByLimestone]

So, how are you going to keep the 6 mil plastic from burning when you stick that single wall pipe through it?

 

[DancingWolf]

I'm probably going to run the pipe through a piece of plywood on the back or front end. Both ends require wall frames, so there will be plenty of room to stick it out the back wall. Every other greenhouse that is heated like this usually just runs it through a piece of plywood and the usual double walled piece of insulated pipe.

 

[Seasoned Oak]

Not sure you are going to get gobs of heat from from large semi wet brush cuttings. Im assuming your not splitting these and drying them . Certainly not near the heat or for as long as with split and dried hardwood. Also id want a bigger firebox than 3CF if your just burning brush. Probably a barrel heater would be a better option for a bigger firebox but not for long burns. I have one and it works fine in the right application. Make sure you seal up all the places that are prone to air leaks. You can get a year or 2 out of a barrel before you have to replace it.