Recommendations on Replacing a Dutchwest

[barnyardengineering]

If I have to stay here another winter, I need a different wood stove. This is my parents'farm. They both died in 2021 and I've been house-sitting ever since, taking care of their dog and playing farmer in my spare time.

Current stove is the Vermont Castings Dutchwest 2461, the midsize model. It's never been a reliable or easy to use stove and this winter is worse than ever. I have a thread on the problems I've been having with it this winter.

What's a good replacement? This will be the primary heat for about 1600 square feet, and I'd like something that has similar capabilities to the Dutchwest, but that actually works.

 

[begreen]

I'm sorry for your loss. This has been a rough couple of years for many.

Can you tell us more about the house layout? Unless the stove room is closed off by doorways from a lot of the house, I am going to recommend going a bit larger for your climate zone for longer burn times. 1600 sq ft is at the very upper end of the 2461's rating. Take a look at the Jotul F55 and the Pacific Energy Summit and Alderlea T6. These are much simpler, clean burning stoves that require very little maintenance and provide 8-12 hrs of good heat. In catalytic, Blaze King, Regency, and Woodstock have strong 3 cu ft firebox options.

If there are budget constraints, then the large Drolets and the Englander 32-NC are good choices.

 

[Prometeo]

We are sorry for your loss. Could you add the description of the flue in your request for advice, if it is the case to continue with cat models or it is better without, considering flue curves and height 👍

 

[barnyardengineering]

We are sorry for your loss. Could you add the description of the flue in your request for advice, if it is the case to continue with cat models or it is better without, considering flue curves and height 👍

Good idea. Unfortunately it's been too long so I can no longer edit that post, so best I can do is add it here.

This is the current setup. First off if I spend another winter here, this stove HAS to go. Non-negotiable. So please, no suggestions as to what I can do to improve the performance of this stove. I've heard them all. I've tried them all that are within my ability. They work for a little while, but everything I have tried has ended in soul crushing disappointment.

I am not married to the 90 and horizontal run of pipe. If I can get a stove that front-loads or loads from the right end, it can be turned 90 and run straight up to the thimble, eliminating most of the horizontal run. The only reason this stove is like this is because it loads from the left end.

The chimney is fairly short, only about 13-14' of vertical above the thimble. I am unable to extend the chimney any higher without having it torn down and rebuilt.

This is in NY and there are legalities with buying new wood stoves in this state so I'm pretty sure catalytic is required.

 

[bholler]

Good idea. Unfortunately I can not figure out how to edit the post, so best I can do is add it here.

This is the current setup. First off if I spend another winter here, this stove HAS to go. Non-negotiable. So please, no suggestions as to what I can do to improve the performance of this stove. I've heard them all. I've tried them all. They work for a little while, but everything I have tried has ended in soul crushing disappointment.

I am not married to the 90 and horizontal run of pipe. If I can get a stove that front-loads or loads from the right end, it can be turned 90 and run straight up to the thimble, eliminating most of the horizontal run. The only reason this stove is like this is because it loads from the left end.

The chimney is fairly short, only about 13-14' of vertical above the thimble. I am unable to extend the chimney any higher without having it torn down and rebuilt.

This is in NY and there are legalities with buying new wood stoves in this state so I'm pretty sure catalytic is required.

Why can't you extend higher without tearing it down? No matter what stove you choose the draft is going to be marginal at best so it's going to be a fight.

And ny doesn't have any more stringent standards for woodstoves than the rest of the country. New stoves just need to meet 2020 standards

 

[barnyardengineering]

Why can't you extend higher without tearing it down? No matter what stove you choose the draft is going to be marginal at best so it's going to be a fight.

And ny doesn't have any more stringent standards for woodstoves than the rest of the country. New stoves just need to meet 2020 standards

I will need to hire someone to do it, and if they do it it must be done to current building codes. This chimney is not up to current building codes. I also suspect that it is structurally compromised, because the last time my Dad was up on the roof working on it, it wobbled like a mortar joint was no longer holding. The only thing holding it up right now is its own sheer weight, and the one-piece stainless liner.

As for NY, people are telling me that NY banned the sale of any new wood stoves. Since the dealers are still open and still selling wood stoves I don't know what the real story is. Google is not helpful in this. In the absence of any concrete information, I can only assume that NY has some more stringent requirements because they have more stringent requirements for everything else. It would be par for the course.

 

[EbS-P]

What’s your budget? As far as pipe. How old is it?
Personally I would get a Drolet and replace the pipe with double wall 2-45s and see if you could do a corner install???

 

[EatenByLimestone]

I’m in NY. You can still buy and install wood stoves here.

Safety is key, so I’d recommend having that chimney looked at before doing anything. Spending money on a new stove only to find out the chimney isn’t safe isn’t going to help the situation.

If the chimney is safe, or can be made safe, there are ways to extend the chimney to get you more height.

This will give you more options as far as stoves go.

 

[bholler]

I will need to hire someone to do it, and if they do it it must be done to current building codes. This chimney is not up to current building codes. I also suspect that it is structurally compromised, because the last time my Dad was up on the roof working on it, it wobbled like a mortar joint was no longer holding. The only thing holding it up right now is its own sheer weight, and the one-piece stainless liner.

As for NY, people are telling me that NY banned the sale of any new wood stoves. Since the dealers are still open and still selling wood stoves I don't know what the real story is. Google is not helpful in this. In the absence of any concrete information, I can only assume that NY has some more stringent requirements because they have more stringent requirements for everything else. It would be par for the course.

You are making assumptions about allot of things there. Most chimneys move quite a bit. With an insulated liner tying it back to the house and a class a extension ontop it will most likely meet code just fine and if it doesn't you should fix it regardless.

And no ny doesn't have any more stringent regulations on woodstoves than what is required by the clean air act for the rest of the country.

 

[Prometeo]

you can play this page, btu efficiency, catalitic, hybrid....

Woodstove Database | Burnwise | US EPA

 

[bholler]

you can play this page, btu efficiency, catalitic, hybrid....

Woodstove Database | Burnwise | US EPA

Yes but none of that matters if the chimney is to short the stove won't perform properly

 

[barnyardengineering]

What’s your budget? As far as pipe. How old is it?
Personally I would get a Drolet and replace the pipe with double wall 2-45s and see if you could do a corner install???

What's my budget? $5? $10,000? I don't know what a new stove even costs. As I have stated in every thread so far the wood stove dealers around here can't be trusted so I haven't even darkened their doors to ask.

The pipe is 10, 15, 20, years old. Maybe more. I really don't remember when the chimney fire was and the person who installed the stove is no longer here to ask.

 

[barnyardengineering]

Yes but none of that matters if the chimney is to short the stove won't perform properly

None of it matters because it's just advertising. It does not provide real world experience.

I care less about getting the most efficient stove than I do about getting one that is easy to use and will provide good consistent heat for 6-8 hours without being reloaded. This Dutchwest needs wood every 3 hours.

 

[bholler]

None of it matters because it's just advertising. It does not provide real world experience.

I care less about getting the most efficient stove than I do about getting one that is easy to use and will provide good consistent heat for 6-8 hours without being reloaded. This Dutchwest needs wood every 3 hours.

When properly setup and run any modern medium or large stove will easily do that. Infact the dutch West should easily do that as well if setup and run properly.

And no that site isn't advertising it lists actual test results for all of those stoves. No it isn't real world it's lab testing but it gives you a good basis for comparison of the stoves when setup and run properly

 

[bholler]

What's my budget? $5? $10,000? I don't know what a new stove even costs. As I have stated in every thread so far the wood stove dealers around here can't be trusted so I haven't even darkened their doors to ask.

The pipe is 10, 15, 20, years old. Maybe more. I really don't remember when the chimney fire was and the person who installed the stove is no longer here to ask.

I am sorry but stove shops are there to make sales and make money. That's why it's important to do your research ahead of time. We can give you recommendations if you give us some ideas of budget etc.

 

[EbS-P]

good budget stoves like Drolet start at 1600 for medium, larger ones are hundreds more.

Premium brands 4500 is close to upper limit.

Moving forward It all depends on your chimney. Go down that path first.

 

[barnyardengineering]

I am sorry but stove shops are there to make sales and make money. That's why it's important to do your research ahead of time. We can give you recommendations if you give us some ideas of budget etc.

I don't mind place making a buck. What I mind is a place making a buck dishonestly. When this stove was sold there was no "internet" to do "research." You were at the mercy of the local wood stove dealer. Were they out to give you good advice and sell you what best fit your needs, or were they out to sell you the most expensive stove on the floor? As you can see from the picture above, this particular stove dealer was NOT out to give good advice, and was totally useless after the sale when we had problems with the stove.

Knock on wood, the stove has been behaving since I put in the new cat. It's still outta here come April.

 

[bholler]

I don't mind place making a buck. What I mind is a place making a buck dishonestly. When this stove was sold there was no "internet" to do "research." You were at the mercy of the local wood stove dealer. Were they out to give you good advice and sell you what best fit your needs, or were they out to sell you the most expensive stove on the floor? As you can see from the picture above, this particular stove dealer was NOT out to give good advice, and was totally useless after the sale when we had problems with the stove.

Knock on wood, the stove has been behaving since I put in the new cat. It's still outta here come April.

Ok those stoves for their day were very good we still have many customers using them happily. Did the stove shop do the install or did someone else?

I don't see anything dishonest about them selling that stove

 

[Prometeo]

I don't mind place making a buck. What I mind is a place making a buck dishonestly. When this stove was sold there was no "internet" to do "research." You were at the mercy of the local wood stove dealer. Were they out to give you good advice and sell you what best fit your needs, or were they out to sell you the most expensive stove on the floor? As you can see from the picture above, this particular stove dealer was NOT out to give good advice, and was totally useless after the sale when we had problems with the stove.

Knock on wood, the stove has been behaving since I put in the new cat. It's still outta here come April.

There have probably been discoveries over the years that they didn't know about before. Take advantage of your local dealers, ask for information without necessarily buying. Explain well how your flue is made and how you can intervene, what were your problems, and you can get more good information. We are all human beings, about equal in similar conditions (this is my opinion)

 

[barnyardengineering]

Ok those stoves for their day were very good we still have many customers using them happily. Did the stove shop do the install or did someone else?

I don't see anything dishonest about them selling that stove

We installed it ourselves using the parts they provided. It wasn't rocket science, impossible to screw up. We carried the stove in, clicked the three pieces of pipe together, and stuck the pipe ends in the appropriate places. Everything fit together like a set of Legos, and only went together one way.

There are a LOT of people on google that would disagree with you that this is a good stove. Google Dutchwest 2461 and there is more than the stove's fair share of bad experiences with it that mirror my own.

 

[bholler]

We installed it ourselves using the parts they provided. It wasn't rocket science, impossible to screw up. We carried the stove in, clicked the three pieces of pipe together, and stuck the pipe ends in the appropriate places. Everything fit together like a set of Legos, and only went together one way.

There are a LOT of people on google that would disagree with you that this is a good stove. Google Dutchwest 2461 and there is more than the stove's fair share of bad experiences with it that mirror my own.

Impossible to screw up other than the fact the chimney is to short with 2 90s and a long horizontal run meaning you never had enough draft to make it work properly.

Look up reviews of anything online and you will find hundreds of horror stories. Everyone blames the product first.

 

[barnyardengineering]

Impossible to screw up other than the fact the chimney is to short with 2 90s and a long horizontal run meaning you never had enough draft to make it work properly.

Look up reviews of anything online and you will find hundreds of horror stories. Everyone blames the product first.

Well, I thank you for your time and effort, but I need recommendations for a replacement. The issues with the current setup are duly noted, but other stoves have worked just fine when the chimney was 3' shorter than it is now.

Also, they're not reviews. They're comments on boards including this one. From "experts" such as yourself.

 

[bholler]

Well, I thank you for your time and effort, but I need recommendations for a replacement.

My recommendation is fix the problems with your chimney first. Your stove may then work perfectly fine. But any modern stoves you hookup is going to need the same thing to work properly anyway.

The chimney is what drives the stove so getting it right is really important

 

[barnyardengineering]

My recommendation is fix the problems with your chimney first. Your stove may then work perfectly fine. But any modern stoves you hookup is going to need the same thing to work properly anyway.

The chimney is what drives the stove so getting it right is really important

The stove is working "perfectly fine" now. I don't know why, all I know is it won't last. It never does.

 

[bholler]

The stove is working "perfectly fine" now. I don't know why, all I know is it won't last. It never does.

Did you get the cat probe yet so you know when to close the bypass?