We are finalizing the drawings for a very small log cabin. It's basically one room, 18x22 or 396 sqft. The cabin is very primitive, no running water or electricity (it's shown in the plans to allow for the future). It's intended as a 3 season cabin, but if we ever get some good snow I'll be up there sledding. That said, we'll need some source for heat. I already have a wood cook stove, but the fire box is small and I know they have to be regularly stoked. Currently we have a stone chimney in the design with a fire place. If I build a fireplace I'll use the Superior Clay Rumford kit. What I'm concerned about is the ability of the fireplace to burn overnight, it's heat output and how often it needs to be stoked. All of the past fire places I have experienced have been inefficient due to their poor design. How much more effective is the Rumford design? I can't imagine it being even close to a modern cast iron wood stove (Jotul). The problem, is that I just don't see the stove as fitting the cabin. Maybe a potbelly, but even then you don't have the character of a open fireplace and massive stone chimney. The ultimate design would have both the fireplace and stove, but I just don't have the room for both. Thoughts?
Rumford vs wood stove in a cabin...which would you choose?
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![[Hearth.com] Rumford vs wood stove in a cabin...which would you choose?](/talk/data/attachments/4/4282-a4364d9b7a170c99995de4a014a8234a.jpg?hash=k3dk11vLwq)
The fireplace would be romantic, but it won't heat the place fast. It won't hold heat overnight and takes up a lot of space for a tiny cabin. I would opt for a small stove like a Jotul 602 or VC Intrepid that puts out a lot of heat fast. The other issue to consider is overnight warmth. The woodstove will help, due to it's mass, but given the short fires, I suspect you will wake up to cold mornings if you don't get up a couple times a night to stoke the fires. This is the advantage of the VC Intrepid. Though small, it will hold a longer fire and is a good heater. And you'll get some visible fire through the glass. Or you can run it with a sparkscreen in the fall and spring to have a mini-fireplace.
I heated my small cabin in northern CT with a woodstove. You are correct, it needs to be stoked every couple hours, but once warmed up, they have a lot of mass and can heat pretty well. My main concern would be taking the cabin from say 20 degrees up to something reasonable, quickly. The woodstove is unlikely to do this.
As to the layout, getting rid of the fireplace will liberate some room and allow the sofa to be moved away from the door (cold spot). I'd move the sofa to the left wall, facing the entrance. Then put the woodstove on the center of the fireplace wall with an interior stack, straight up.
Another thing you might consider is to reduce entrances to just one, maybe just via the porch. That liberates wall space and reduces cold air infiltration.
I heated my small cabin in northern CT with a woodstove. You are correct, it needs to be stoked every couple hours, but once warmed up, they have a lot of mass and can heat pretty well. My main concern would be taking the cabin from say 20 degrees up to something reasonable, quickly. The woodstove is unlikely to do this.
As to the layout, getting rid of the fireplace will liberate some room and allow the sofa to be moved away from the door (cold spot). I'd move the sofa to the left wall, facing the entrance. Then put the woodstove on the center of the fireplace wall with an interior stack, straight up.
Another thing you might consider is to reduce entrances to just one, maybe just via the porch. That liberates wall space and reduces cold air infiltration.
I would have to throw a vote in for a stove as well. The open fireplace is hard to beat for ambiance, especially in a cabin, but has absolutely nothing on a stove for efficiency and heat.
I'm wondering if a smaller soapstone stove would be the ticket. That way, even with a shorter burn time, you would have more residual heat.
I'm wondering if a smaller soapstone stove would be the ticket. That way, even with a shorter burn time, you would have more residual heat.
That layout just screams for a rock hearth and a Jotul F3CB cast iron stove with firescreen for open door burning.
I like the idea of the stone hearth, but as much as I like the 3CB, I'd go for the Intrepid for the longer burn. The Intrepid also has the firescreen option, but in cat mode I think it will burn a couple hours longer.
BeGreen said:
If that place is insulated right I don't think long burns are going to be a big issue. Not often that you get to do a cabin from scratch and with logs if they tighten the place up it should hold it some heat.
I'd agree with pretty much everone else here. The Rumford is not going to cut it. If in the design stages, you can easily do a nice hearth and stove in that area and go up with stone or whatever you like to get the most heating benefit out of it (less getting up in the middle of the night to stoke the fireplace).
Cool. Better response than I anticipated! In my gut I knew the fireplace wouldn't cut it. Darn. We both really wanted one. I do have a flush hearth in the design, I may need to increase it so I have sufficent non combustable surface in front of the stove. If I can't come up with a better solution, I'll proably set the stove on the hearth and then pipe into the chimney. Make it look like the stove was added at a later date. Maybe, just maybe I'll put in two flues, so we can have a fireplace until those really cold days where as we hook up the wood stove. High on the PIA scale, but we wouldn't be using it all that often.
As for insulation, a true log is terrible! Yea, the log centers are OK, but the edges are a big thermal bridge. But then again, it really doesn't matter. This isn't a full time home and the worst case would have me buying one size larger stove and carrying a extra arm load of wood.
As for insulation, a true log is terrible! Yea, the log centers are OK, but the edges are a big thermal bridge. But then again, it really doesn't matter. This isn't a full time home and the worst case would have me buying one size larger stove and carrying a extra arm load of wood.
You could also get an EPA zero-clearance fireplace (basically a wood stove set into the wall), and use a stone surround. That would be about as efficient without taking up a lot of space and would be closer to the look you want. Generally you can't run them with the door(s) open, though.
Try to keep the stack in the interior of the cabin. I'm guessing this is going to be a pretty short flue. If it's exterior and literally stone cold, starting fires and getting a good draft going could be a royal pita.
I have a friend who has a super insulated, passive solar home. He heats the house with about 1 cord of wood a year and a VC Defiant CAT stove.
He refers to his Rumford fireplace as his wintertime air conditioner.
If you have the budget to go with a Rumford, I'd say go all the way and build a Masonry heater like a Tulikivi or TempCast.
He refers to his Rumford fireplace as his wintertime air conditioner.
If you have the budget to go with a Rumford, I'd say go all the way and build a Masonry heater like a Tulikivi or TempCast.
I'd loose the stone fireplace and chimney, UNLESS you were thinking of trying to locate it more centrally and doing a masonry heater type deal. An MH might be good except that it would be slow to get the cabin up to comfortable temps from a cold start (I assume this basically going to be a "weekend occupancy" type building?)
If not doing an MH, I'd go with a larger woodstove in the 2-3 cu ft firebox range, like a VC Encore or possibly Defiant, wth a straight up pipe to a Class A chimney - keeping the chimney inside will give you more heat, and be less of a heat waster.
Gooserider
If not doing an MH, I'd go with a larger woodstove in the 2-3 cu ft firebox range, like a VC Encore or possibly Defiant, wth a straight up pipe to a Class A chimney - keeping the chimney inside will give you more heat, and be less of a heat waster.
Gooserider
Earth to hearth.com. Over.
We are talking about a four hundred square foot cabin folks. You can heat it with candles! A three cubic foot firebox stove would run you out of the place on the kindling alone!
Bedroom, kitchen and living room totals the size of my family room and kitchen.
We are talking about a four hundred square foot cabin folks. You can heat it with candles! A three cubic foot firebox stove would run you out of the place on the kindling alone!
Bedroom, kitchen and living room totals the size of my family room and kitchen.
BrotherBart said:
:lol: I was thinking the same thing bart, had to go back and read the original post again.
THe smallest freestander of your favorite MFG will do.
Where is this cabin anyway, the north poll
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Gunner said:
LOL... I missed the 300 sqft deal. I second the Morso 2UB. That's got to be one of the top 5 best looking stoves ever.
That Morso is a beautiful stove. That's exactly what I had in mind. Classic lines, beautiful detailing, small size. Looking at the plan, I see a small spot to the left of the counter, behind where the future shower will be. I think a small stove would fit right there. It's a nice central location too. Actually, what do you guys think about a pot belly stove in that location? It would fit a bit better due to it's upright posture.
Next question: the bed room is less than 150sqft. Does anybody make a stove that'll heat the room with out cooking us out?
Next question: the bed room is less than 150sqft. Does anybody make a stove that'll heat the room with out cooking us out?
Boy, taking lots of turns here. With the Morso, T4 or Thelin, there goes the open fireplace idea.
What is the priority? For me, it would be staying comfortable when it 10 degrees outside. Maybe that's just me, but when I wake up in the night to feed a fire I often have trouble getting back to sleep. The last thing I'd want to do is to get maybe 4 hrs. sleep on my weekend visit. Though I do like the idea of an open fire in the autumn and spring. For this, I still say the VC Intrepid with the longer burn & the capability to burn like a fireplace gives you the most flexibility. However, the Jotul 3CB and the Alderlea T4 are better for close clearance installations.
What is the priority? For me, it would be staying comfortable when it 10 degrees outside. Maybe that's just me, but when I wake up in the night to feed a fire I often have trouble getting back to sleep. The last thing I'd want to do is to get maybe 4 hrs. sleep on my weekend visit. Though I do like the idea of an open fire in the autumn and spring. For this, I still say the VC Intrepid with the longer burn & the capability to burn like a fireplace gives you the most flexibility. However, the Jotul 3CB and the Alderlea T4 are better for close clearance installations.
Hi Gunner,
I just saw this Morso squirrel at the Woodmen's field days in Boonville, NY and it is gorgeous. Well worth it.
Cord,
NO, NO, NO. You are not allowed under any circumstances to put a wood stove in a bedroom. NFPA 211 forbids it.
All you can do that is cheap and easy it add an electric baseboard to take the chill off. Especially since it is a part time house. The Morso will heat that entire cabin just fine.
Carpniels
I just saw this Morso squirrel at the Woodmen's field days in Boonville, NY and it is gorgeous. Well worth it.
Cord,
NO, NO, NO. You are not allowed under any circumstances to put a wood stove in a bedroom. NFPA 211 forbids it.
All you can do that is cheap and easy it add an electric baseboard to take the chill off. Especially since it is a part time house. The Morso will heat that entire cabin just fine.
Carpniels
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