Sense Energy Monitor

[mellow]

I have been meaning to post about this for a few months now but always forget. I installed it back in January and it has helped me find quite a few energy hogs and pushed me to changing over to LED for the entire (new to me) house.

I was going to buy the TED system but went with this instead and overall I am happy so far. The device detection could be better (they are working on it) but the numbers match up with what my electric company says I am using so I am able to forecast what my bill will be which is a huge help.

The guys with solar hooked up to it are on the fence, I don't have solar yet so I can't recommend it for that.

https://sense.com/

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[semipro]

I've wondered how well these would work. The concept is ingenious but I'd think that differentiating some devices from others based only on the the power use signal that it monitors would be tough. For example, I have two water heaters that are the same model and size yet they serve different parts of the house. How would I know which was being used based only on its electrical use signature?

Thanks for sharing.

 

[georgepds]

As I installed new energy hogs ( two heat pumps and a volt electric car charger) I would install Hialeah ez read meter to track use. The srec 1&2pv arrays each have their own meter

Result... heat pumps sip energy, the car charger gobbles it

 

[begreen]

We have an eGauge. It is pricey, but has been reliable for the past 5 or so years.
https://www.egauge.net/

 

[mellow]

I have two of the same garage door openers, it does not split them apart, but that is OK to me as I can still see what the both of them use combined for power. Some things it still has yet to detect like my fridge and tv's but it is detecting new devices every week or so, the fun part is tracking them down as it will say it is "Motor 1" but it won't tell me what it is but it gives me a list of possible devices and a % of what Motor 1 was in other homes. My big power hogs like the water heater and hvac were picked up within the first couple weeks.

Another nice thing is I can better estimate what my power bill will be for that month.

 

[maple1]

What's the MSRP?

I'm happy with my Effergy - but that looks pretty darn neat.

 

[mellow]

Not the cheapest, $299 and Solar adds $50. The install wasn't to bad, the hardest thing was finding a spare 220 circuit I could dedicate to it. The clamp install was easy.

 

[maple1]

Ok, ya that's up there - and didn't realize it also needed a 220/240 circuit. That seems a bit odd. Pretty neat though, regardless.

 

[mellow]

You can share a 220 but it is better to have a dedicated one, it uses that and the clamps to read the difference in the electrical signatures and to power the unit (it doesn't use much power itself).

 

[Ashful]

You can share a 220 but it is better to have a dedicated one, it uses that and the clamps to read the difference in the electrical signatures and to power the unit (it doesn't use much power itself).

How would you legally tap two devices off the same breaker? My recollection is no wiring junctions permitted within a breaker panel, and double-stabbing a breaker is also disallowed.

 

[mellow]

As per their install instructions:

Connect the power
Connect the black wire and the red wire to an empty 240V breaker and the white wire to the neutral bus bar. Sense draws less than 0.1A, so you should use the smallest 240V breaker available for your panel.

Don’t have an empty breaker?
Connect to an existing or add a new 240V breaker. Do not use a tandem breaker, unless it is 240V. Learn more at help.sense.com.

 

[Highbeam]

Oh no, you can have junctions and wire nuts in the can (panel box). You can certainly have more than one “load” per 240 breaker. Some devices require dedicated circuits but they’re specific.

 

[mellow]

Here is one for you guys, I thought I heard my water pump running early this morning or I was dreaming. Sometimes the kids don't turn the hose fully off and waste water and electric with the pump running all the time. I remembered about it at work and it's great to able to check from anywhere my usage and make sure.



Looks like they did turn it off.

 

[maple1]

33 times on - holy crap. I should pay more attention to ours, maybe. The start up load is big - likely getting a bigger cushion tank should be on my radar.

 

[begreen]

Here is one for you guys, I thought I heard my water pump running early this morning or I was dreaming. Sometimes the kids don't turn the hose fully off and waste water and electric with the pump running all the time. I remembered about it at work and it's great to able to check from anywhere my usage and make sure.

View attachment 227026

Looks like they did turn it off.

Might check the pressure tank. Bladder may need air or if it's getting waterlogged the tank may need replacement, especially if it's undersized.

 

[Ashful]

At 6 minutes over 33 starts, it’s running just 10 seconds per start. Definitely a tank problem, not just kids leaving a hose on. Even with no concurrent draw, it should take more than 10 seconds to fill a tank, on a typically-configured system.

 

[BrotherBart]

When that happened with my well pump the check valve down in the well on the pump had corroded. So it was pumping up the tank, draining back down into the well and doing it all over again over and over. Caught it because of the high KwH usage on the efergy.

It happened early in the billing period. If not for the monitor I would have had to take out a second mortgage to pay the electric bill.

 

[Highbeam]

When that happened with my well pump the check valve down in the well on the pump had corroded. So it was pumping up the tank, draining back down into the well and doing it all over again over and over. Caught it because of the high KwH usage on the efergy.

It happened early in the billing period. If not for the monitor I would have had to take out a second mortgage to pay the electric bill.

Seen this too. Also very common is a corrosion hole in the downpipe from the pump to the well head. Same result of pressure leaking into the casing until the pressure switch kicks the well back on.

 

[semipro]

I have two of the same garage door openers, it does not split them apart, but that is OK to me as I can still see what the both of them use combined for power. Some things it still has yet to detect like my fridge and tv's but it is detecting new devices every week or so, the fun part is tracking them down as it will say it is "Motor 1" but it won't tell me what it is but it gives me a list of possible devices and a % of what Motor 1 was in other homes. My big power hogs like the water heater and hvac were picked up within the first couple weeks.

Another nice thing is I can better estimate what my power bill will be for that month.

Seems like it should have a "training" mode where you can turn something on manually and then register that device within the Sense when the load is detected. Of course you might need to turn off all the other breakers to avoid confounds.

 

[mellow]

Maybe that graph is deceiving but that is from 12:01am to 10am. Several showers were taken hence the green bump in the graph around 7am from the pump running. It is a brand new gould pump and tank is fine, not bleeding any pressure, it was saying it was on for 5 minutes over the 10 hours.

 

[mellow]

Seems like it should have a "training" mode where you can turn something on manually and then register that device within the Sense when the load is detected. Of course you might need to turn off all the other breakers to avoid confounds.

Yea, we are trying to get the engineers at Sense to allow access so we can "train" it. Apparently there is much more that happens behind the scene with the AI than we are aware of since it is a crowdsourced AI.

 

[peakbagger]

How would you legally tap two devices off the same breaker? My recollection is no wiring junctions permitted within a breaker panel, and double-stabbing a breaker is also disallowed

Sorry for missing this one. As someone else replied, code allows multiple circuit's to be fed from one breaker. The key thing which is not code is unless the breaker lugs are rated for multiple wires (very rare, darn close to non existent) you can only have one wire per lug on the breaker. So you just run a short wire from a lug on the breaker to a suitable wire nut somewhere in the panel and then connect two or more circuits.

Note that PV circuits are an exception and need to be connected to a dedicated breaker permanently labeled with no other circuits on the breaker. On most panels, the PV breaker also needs to be installed at the farthest location away from the incoming feeder breaker.

 

[Ashful]

Maybe that graph is deceiving but that is from 12:01am to 10am. Several showers were taken hence the green bump in the graph around 7am from the pump running. It is a brand new gould pump and tank is fine, not bleeding any pressure, it was saying it was on for 5 minutes over the 10 hours.

I got that, but what I say remains. 33 starts at an average of 10 seconds run time each, seems to indicate a problem. I'm used to a well tank taking somewhere beyond a minute to fill.

Quick math, if your pump is rated 10 GPM at its set depth and pressure, it would take 2 minutes to fill an average expansion tank with a 20 gallon drawdown rating, and that's with no appliance running. Now, add a shower a 2 GPM, and it will take 2.5 minutes for the same tank fill.

How do you get a total run time of 5 minutes with 33 pump starts?

 

[mellow]

I have the pump set at a lower psi, it kicks off at around 50psi and on at 35psi so it cycles quickly but more often.

 

[Ashful]

Wouldn’t setting it up in any way that it must start and stop more frequently (esp. 33x in 10 hours, at 10 seconds per start) be a great way to shorten pump life and maximize electrical usage?

I’d be thinking you’d be justified in going about 30x larger on your storage tank, such that you can have two long fills per day.