smoke getting into my room
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And YES it failed while burning. The collar broke and the 6" single wall pipe collapsed onto the floor. So Lucky i was home to carry the burning logs across the living room, over the dog, and out onto the lawn. I had no idea that the corrosion was there. The rest of the stove was in Mint condition even after burning every day in winter for 15+ years. The stove is in a large fireplace so i don't think the house would have burned down. But the smoke would have been a nightmare and The Dog? well i can't even begin to think about that.
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I missed the aluminum pipe extension. That is not acceptable. Stainless should be used for wood fire, especially outdoors exposed to the elements,
brenndatomu
Minister of Fire
Nobody else thinks that wood and carboard box is way too close to the stove?
You guys are slipping...
I am very interested with this fascinating thread because "outside of the rain water" dripping---this stove lightening sounds exactly like mine...I have only used my stove about four times or so--a very new burner here a old woman who is afraid of this type of activity--lol--but I cannot get the temperature up high enough with my stove and the start up is fine for I loaded three 16 inch oak splits that is kiln dried from GA and my moisture meter says 10 % after a lot of jumping around with drills ( I did not know how to use) and 1/16th thing a jig to make small holes so that I can take the moisture readings (four prong thing--terrible) and usually I have to hammer it in with a cloth over the gadget top---so you see how trustworthy this might be but I am learning but your situation sounds exactly like mine and i have to leave it open awhile just to get up the flame then I shut it and have to leave the air adjuster knob on full open for it to continue to burn not getting up to 400 very quick with really no heat...maybe its my loading--new at this and the mixed wood registering about 18% moisture is worse...So I am enjoying your thread and we will just hang in there and I am looking for a air cleaner just in case I am getting smoke which I do not see at this stage of burning only in the fire box when I open it but my stove window get dirty which is a drag...thanks for your posting and everybody the knowledge is wonderful and these problems will be solved in time...I hope... Last night the outside temp was 31 degrees and the wind was blowing and my state is dry dry dry with a very high attitude--and I live in the mile high city..clancey
Hi Clancey thanks for your message and interesting to see more people having startup problems. I would think that a reading of 10% MC is very low and can only be reached when wood is artificially (oven) dried, or if is has been indoors at low RV for a few years. How long does it take to reach 400F in your setup?
After I pre-dried my wood which reads between 16 and 19% MC, which should be fine already, it drops to around 10-12%, only at the outer sides, but this makes a huge difference, from now on I always keep 1 batch of small pre-dried laths to start a new fire. I don’t get dirty stove window (except when the wood touches it while burning). Since using the indoors pre-dried laths, just 1 first load at the start of a fire, which burns for around 30 minutes max, when sitting at about 1 meter distance from my stove (3 feet), I feel a nice radiation. This has not always been the case. But since the indoor pre dried wood it gets much better.
I think having the air inlets 100% open together with the door a bit open is advised, but after 5 minutes you should be able to close the door in my opinion, if there is a strong burning fire and draft has started.
Do you load your firebox with many small (dry) laths to get a hot start of the fire? I use some cardbord and alcohol to get a quick start. Maybe you can post a photo of your stove and flue?
Good luck and keep posting your progress!
Thanks and appreciate that information and will read it again especially about your start up wood of lathes...I also have a thread on here about my stove burning that I do once in awhile and in this I take pictures of the stoves and things of that nature--just a kind of a picture of fire thread but it does gives some historic information about the stove as well as the building of the porch to house it in---just so so nothing much here and I can not quite remember even that might be on another thread--lol..anyway thanks for the nice reply. Not that good at computer work so have a hard time switching threads and pictures around from here--lol I need a few grand kids to help me...clancey
Thanks for your warning. I'm in the process of returning the top part as it isn't rain-proof, so I can add 1 meter of stainless steel flue pipe. Would it be a good idea to extend the chimney, with a current vertical total length of about 5.5 meters, to 6.5 meters? I find it difficult to tell if there was an improved draft when using the 70 cm aluminium extension pipe. But adding 1 meter will make the top of the flue extend above the highest part of the (flat) roof. At the moment, without the extension pipe it is about 10 cm below the highest point of the roof. (but the chimney is about 1 meter away from the top of the flat roof)
Hi again. I finally found a good website that shows some clear information about chimneys and draft, including formulas to get a good idea / understanding about which parameters effect draft in a chimney:
https://www.rumford.com/draft.html
It seems that extending chimney height is always a good idea, so I will extend it again - this time using a stainless steel extension flue pipe. After extending it (again), the top of the chimney will be higher than the top of the roof. But cross sectional area is a big factor as well. My flue has a diameter of 12 centimeters, because that's the diameter of the stove rear outlet. The Morsoe stove manual tells that generally a diameter of 15 cm is advised. (?)
Unfortunately I still have smoke problems when reloading. Outdoor temperature have increased from 4 to 9 degrees centigrade. Not sure if this is the cause - or it's the removal of the (aluminium) extension flue pipe, or a combination. A few weeks ago I managed to do a first refill without any smoke leaking into my room, but the last week it always leaks smoke into my room, also when I crack a window.
I will try to get my money back and return the leaking top part of my stove which turns with the wind. Even when there is light rain and almost no wind, rain is dripping into my flue. The seller isn't very helpful just like the stove seller.
I'll keep you updated but I'm still unhappy with my stove and the lack of help from the dealer / importer / factory. But I got a lot of help here, so I will keep trying by replacing the top part of my flue and extending it again.
By the way, although it didn't help with the smoke problem, I only use pre-dried indoor wood now and this results in a 100% guaranteed succesfull startup of my stove. It always catches fire and gets hot quickly. This was not always the case. I discovered that my wood storage shed, which I built myself, leaks some drips of water at the roof. It is just a very little water, but I will fix that too.
https://www.rumford.com/draft.html
It seems that extending chimney height is always a good idea, so I will extend it again - this time using a stainless steel extension flue pipe. After extending it (again), the top of the chimney will be higher than the top of the roof. But cross sectional area is a big factor as well. My flue has a diameter of 12 centimeters, because that's the diameter of the stove rear outlet. The Morsoe stove manual tells that generally a diameter of 15 cm is advised. (?)
Unfortunately I still have smoke problems when reloading. Outdoor temperature have increased from 4 to 9 degrees centigrade. Not sure if this is the cause - or it's the removal of the (aluminium) extension flue pipe, or a combination. A few weeks ago I managed to do a first refill without any smoke leaking into my room, but the last week it always leaks smoke into my room, also when I crack a window.
I will try to get my money back and return the leaking top part of my stove which turns with the wind. Even when there is light rain and almost no wind, rain is dripping into my flue. The seller isn't very helpful just like the stove seller.
I'll keep you updated but I'm still unhappy with my stove and the lack of help from the dealer / importer / factory. But I got a lot of help here, so I will keep trying by replacing the top part of my flue and extending it again.
By the way, although it didn't help with the smoke problem, I only use pre-dried indoor wood now and this results in a 100% guaranteed succesfull startup of my stove. It always catches fire and gets hot quickly. This was not always the case. I discovered that my wood storage shed, which I built myself, leaks some drips of water at the roof. It is just a very little water, but I will fix that too.
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Sounds like your working on these things and its quite a trek but your attempting to fix the problems of the smoke and water getting in the system and solving all those problems...I encourage you to continue and you will solve the problem..Like suggested make sure you have the proper piping and fix the water leakage problem with the top of the flu piping so that it does not move like that "in the wind"...I do not quite understand because of ignorance on my part here but its sounds like your winning a little bit..old clancey
Thanks for your message Clancey! Did you make any progress on your smoke issue?
Last weekend I installed a 70 cm extension flue pipe (again), and a different cap. Last weekend wind force was 2-3 Bft and there was a much stronger draft then before. So it seems my conclusion that extending the chimney didn't improve draft was wrong. There were no smoke problems at all this time.
Today wind force is 0-1 Bft. It is much more difficult to start the fire and the flames keep orange coloured, despite both air inlets fully open. It is still burning well after a bit more startup time. At some places I read about not starting your stove at windspeeds below 2 and 3 Bft. Any ideas about this? I never burn when it is misty outside. But today it is sunny and a clear sky.
Last weekend I installed a 70 cm extension flue pipe (again), and a different cap. Last weekend wind force was 2-3 Bft and there was a much stronger draft then before. So it seems my conclusion that extending the chimney didn't improve draft was wrong. There were no smoke problems at all this time.
Today wind force is 0-1 Bft. It is much more difficult to start the fire and the flames keep orange coloured, despite both air inlets fully open. It is still burning well after a bit more startup time. At some places I read about not starting your stove at windspeeds below 2 and 3 Bft. Any ideas about this? I never burn when it is misty outside. But today it is sunny and a clear sky.
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stoveliker
Minister of Fire
Good to hear; some progress.
I do burn also when there is no wind, or when there is "a quiet dog". No difference here in draft. However, if there is smoke, such weather can lead to the smoke hanging low, due to an often present inversion layer. That's not nice for the neighbors which may be the reason for the advice you got.
I do burn also when there is no wind, or when there is "a quiet dog". No difference here in draft. However, if there is smoke, such weather can lead to the smoke hanging low, due to an often present inversion layer. That's not nice for the neighbors which may be the reason for the advice you got.
stoveliker
Minister of Fire
Hi,
it has been much colder the last days, it is freezing now outside. It hasn't been raining the last days. But I hear a lot of water dripping in the cap of the t-piece. (bottom of flue). Tonight there was about 5 millimeters of water in the cap of the t-piece. (bottom end of flue). As the bottom cap isn't 100% waterproof, some rust-brown water dripped on the floor below.
This dripping is happening at least for a few days already. I tested the chimney cowl (the piece from a picture in my previous post), which I suspected from leaking rain, but when putting a lot of water from above it with a watering can, no water gets in the cowl. So the previous experienced water was either rain water or condensation water or both. But I'm sure the current water problem is from warm indoor air which flows through the chimney upwards and condensates against the cooler liner.
I'm just wondering if this to be expected and normal and acceptable? To me it sounds logical, but not practical as I'm always a little afraid of rust inside the single walled steel flue pipe (t-piece, the rest of the flue is stainless steel).
it has been much colder the last days, it is freezing now outside. It hasn't been raining the last days. But I hear a lot of water dripping in the cap of the t-piece. (bottom of flue). Tonight there was about 5 millimeters of water in the cap of the t-piece. (bottom end of flue). As the bottom cap isn't 100% waterproof, some rust-brown water dripped on the floor below.
This dripping is happening at least for a few days already. I tested the chimney cowl (the piece from a picture in my previous post), which I suspected from leaking rain, but when putting a lot of water from above it with a watering can, no water gets in the cowl. So the previous experienced water was either rain water or condensation water or both. But I'm sure the current water problem is from warm indoor air which flows through the chimney upwards and condensates against the cooler liner.
I'm just wondering if this to be expected and normal and acceptable? To me it sounds logical, but not practical as I'm always a little afraid of rust inside the single walled steel flue pipe (t-piece, the rest of the flue is stainless steel).
Yup the single wall will rust, you will have to replace it every few years, not a huge deal, but it can very dangerous if you don’t notice the rust and it’s strength gets compromised. The even bigger concern is water onto the stove collar.
But that sounds like frequent water and that’s definitely no good.
Hi, I didn't use the stove for the last few days, so it must be from condensation?
stoveliker
Minister of Fire
I am sorry, but when there is no rain and no fire, it can only be air leaking out if the home thru the pipe, and its water condensing on the cold surface..?
stoveliker
Minister of Fire
Do you have the air on your stove (as) closed (as possible) when the stove is not in use? It seems to me you want to minimize air loss thru your stove (regardless of the water issue...).
Sorry, I lost track of the thread, it has gone on for a bit and I missed the last update. It could be condensation, especially if another single-wall pipe was used for the extension instead of chimney pipe.
Hi again!
I still have no clue what causes the mysterious water dripping in my flue. Last week it has been dry and cold and clear weather, almost no wind - so I decided not to use the stove because of my neighbours and reduced draft because of reduced wind strength.
I was amazed to notice water still dripping into the t-piece cap when it was dry outside for several days.
The last few days it strarted to rain again and got warmer outside, but still dripping problems. Yesterday I used the stove and draft was good (!).
At the first floor I can open the chimney inspection door (the outer masonry chimney) to inspect the stainless steel liner. I checked it just after lighting the fire and the liner outside was dry. So the water must come from the inside somewhere at the top of the liner.
I will climb the roof again soon when it is raining / dripping, to inspect the top inlet. It remains a mystery to me. The only things I can come up with are:
* condensation from warm indoor air, although this seems unplausible for this amount of water
* somewhere at the top plate where the extension pipe is connected there is a leak
I keep you updated...
I still have no clue what causes the mysterious water dripping in my flue. Last week it has been dry and cold and clear weather, almost no wind - so I decided not to use the stove because of my neighbours and reduced draft because of reduced wind strength.
I was amazed to notice water still dripping into the t-piece cap when it was dry outside for several days.
The last few days it strarted to rain again and got warmer outside, but still dripping problems. Yesterday I used the stove and draft was good (!).
At the first floor I can open the chimney inspection door (the outer masonry chimney) to inspect the stainless steel liner. I checked it just after lighting the fire and the liner outside was dry. So the water must come from the inside somewhere at the top of the liner.
I will climb the roof again soon when it is raining / dripping, to inspect the top inlet. It remains a mystery to me. The only things I can come up with are:
* condensation from warm indoor air, although this seems unplausible for this amount of water
* somewhere at the top plate where the extension pipe is connected there is a leak
I keep you updated...
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