Caw
Minister of Fire
See, this is why we ask the cat people!
General consensus does seem to be draft issues though. Definitely the place to start.
General consensus does seem to be draft issues though. Definitely the place to start.
See, this is why we ask the cat people!
General consensus does seem to be draft issues though. Definitely the place to start.
I can’t imagine there is any blockage. The liner was just put in last week. The installer said it would help with draft if anything. I’m stopping in to talk to them now. I’ll see what they say.I did not read all above, but for now I'd refrain from considering a cat stove (but I'm not all the expert that @Caw makes me out to be...); they may have the same (or worse) draft problems. You have a new and good stove, you seem used to burning a certain way that worked, your flue height should be sufficient (unless your stove needs an 8" flue...?) - and while it might be possible to burn more efficient than your mode, it should in a good set up not lead to your smoke problem. So it's best to figure out what's wrong in your current set up.
If your flue is good (height, dia), then I concur with @moresnow about the 45's.
Other than that, have you checked the stove pipe and chimney (partial blockage)? (Have you changed wood supply recently?) I'm asking because such partial blockages can allow you to burn almost normally, but leave you just at the edge for when you open the door: the cross sectional area of the door is large, and to keep sufficient airflow INTO the stove for that full area (rather than smoky air coming out), it needs to flow fast through your flue - and a partial blockage may put you under that minimum, but may keep you in proper flow for fairly normal burning when the flow requirements are actually lower (given variability in weather and wood).
Is you cap clean or clogged (binoculars - or maybe you can't judge this from the ground, judging by your pic)?
Yes. I know we have negative air with the wood stove in the basement. So I open the exterior door prior to reloading. Honestly doesn’t seem to make a difference if the door is open or not. If there is smoke in the fire box then some gets in the room if the wood stove door is fully open.But bottomline: I agree with @Caw and Gordon: draft issues.
The system consists of 3 parts: the chimney, your stove, and your home. Assuming your stove is good, that leaves your home and your chimney. (Assumption because new stove, good brand, no expectation that's wrong -but I hope someone else with knowledge of this stove could chime in, baffle boards properly seated etc? I don't know your stove but there are folks that'll know this stove around here. @begreen is often very to the point in these things, but I don't know if he knows this stove),
Back to draft issues: Air flows into your home through leaks. It gets sucked out thru your stove by your chimney, in particular if you have heat in the stove (hot coals is enough), and by other appliances.
If you open a window in the same room as the stove, you should not have an issue getting enough make-up air in for what your chimney sucks out.
That leaves your chimney as the root cause. Hence my questions above.
Have you read this thread yet? About post #11 it gets very relevant. Good luck with this.Yes. I know we have negative air with the wood stove in the basement. So I open the exterior door prior to reloading. Honestly doesn’t seem to make a difference if the door is open or not. If there is smoke in the fire box then some gets in the room if the wood stove door is fully open.
Ok the manual had some type of damper near the OAK. I do not think that should be installed. verify. If he does take it apart I would take the time to install the the two 45's as the others have suggested. Discuss liner insulation if he pulls the liner. Cant wait to hear the results.He recommended trying with the oak disconnected. He said they don’t usually install them anymore but they attached this one because it was already there and we used it with our other stove without issue.
Thanks for the link. Glad to know I’m not the only one having issues. Sounds similar to my situation. Like in post #11, I’ve tried opening the door with a hot fire going, thinking the draft would be strong at that point, and the flames came pouring out into the room. Scared me a bit when that happened, as I was used to the flames getting sucked into the top of the stove when the door is open.Have you read this thread yet? About post #11 it gets very relevant. Good luck with this.
Regency 2450 backdrafting | Hearth.com Forums Home
That is the first thing I would check. If it is in the bottom position raise it all the way up and save the dealer a trip. If it is in the up position then I would try burning a fire with it temporarily removed just for a test. If that makes a dramatic improvement then it could be that the deflector needs to have a little steeper angle bent into it. If no change then check the OAK for obstruction.I'm betting that Smoke Deflector will be the problem (Page 31 on manual that begreen pointed out). It seems way to restrictive. The f400 has a similar restrictor but its about 1/2 the size with open space above and on both sides of it.
They are very different stoves. The F3CB breathes much easier than the F400. I had one on a 12' chimney and it was fine. The F400 has a much larger (2x?) wider door and a shallow firebox. It wants stronger draft. Ours was on a 20ft straight up flue system and it would spill smoke if you weren't careful when outside temps were >50º.Yup same deal with my new Jotul f400 which replaced an old Jotul 3 from the 1980’s. The smoke pushes out on top at the hinge side of the door. The old Jotul 3 never did that. So I reload when coals are pretty low as they don’t produce too much smoke/fumes. Or I really prefer to just burn in full cycles. I restart cold almost every morning.
Both stoves have the exact same install. Single wall into clay lined flue with lots of masonry mass fireplace.
When the stove cools off I will take a look at the deflector. It certainly seems like that would be a pretty restrictive obstacle for a stove that may not be breathing great. I have it running on inside air today. Seemed like it may be running a bit better maybe. But I reloaded on hot coals and still got smoke and a fire smell in the house. Which lasted a couple hours. I’m not really keen on modifying a brand new $2400 stove but I’d give it a shot.I'm betting that Smoke Deflector will be the problem (Page 31 on manual that begreen pointed out). It seems way to restrictive. The f400 has a similar restrictor but its about 1/2 the size with open space above and on both sides of it.
This is not a modification if the deflector is in the lowered position. It is adjustable as pointed out in the manual. If you had a very tall flue system and strong draft, then lowering the deflector might actually help tame the fire. As described, this case is the opposite. Did you check the OAK system for any obstruction like an outside flap or kink in the piping?When the stove cools off I will take a look at the deflector. It certainly seems like that would be a pretty restrictive obstacle for a stove that may not be breathing great. I have it running on inside air today. Seemed like it may be running a bit better maybe. But I reloaded on hot coals and still got smoke and a fire smell in the house. Which lasted a couple hours. I’m not really keen on modifying a brand new $2400 stove but I’d give it a shot.
I took the front off the pedestal as instructed by the dealer. So the bottom of the stove has full access to room air.This is not a modification if the deflector is in the lowered position. It is adjustable as pointed out in the manual. If you had a very tall flue system and strong draft, then lowering the deflector might actually help tame the fire. As described, this case is the opposite. Did you check the OAK system for any obstruction like an outside flap or kink in the piping?
The dealer did mention that he had one install about 4 years ago where a cap did come off the bottom of a T during install, and as you state the liner was drawing air from the chimney rather than the stove. Sounds like it would be something he will check.I'd be curious how (and how well) the horizontal section of your stove pipe is hooked to the 25' vertical run of liner.
Seems there would need to be a 90 degree T or elbow, but it would be inside the chimney and the installer would be trying to stab the horizontal section of black pipe through the masonry and hope it hits the T for a perfect seal. (Hope they did not get really crazy and think that the two pipes just 'pointed at each other' would suffice. *
If there are any cracks, gaps, loose caps on a T, or other spaces there, or possibly the black pipe and liner didn't actually mate up, the 25' liner could be drawing in air from the chimney, instead of draft from the stove.
* This reminds me of a situation years ago where I looked at a gas furnace with a nice stainless pipe leading up to a masonry chimney and a nice stainless cap on top of the chimney. We always thought it was lined, but I had to pull the top cap to do some weather sealing and found out that is exactly what it was... stainless pipe to the masonry chimney, stainless cap, an nothing but masonry in between!
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