Squealing welder

[j7art2]

My buddy offered to give me a Miller Thunderbolt AC/DC Arc welder for free, provided I drove the 2 hours to pick it up. I've never welded before, and just learned how this past weekend at a friends. He said the last time it was used was 5 years ago, and it worked then. It's sat at his house for roughly 20 years, and it was there when he bought the house.

I brought it home and fired it up, and it squeals immediately upon turning on. The whole thing has some rust on it and is full of cobwebs and who knows what else.

Is this just a nasty fan that needs to be cleaned and oiled, or could it be something else? I know nothing about welders.

 

[Jags]

Probably the fan. Not many moving parts of a stick welder. Just a couple of big coils. Be gentle on the old internal wire coils. As they age, some had an insulation that got extremely brittle. You don't want to go crunching that up.

Edit: my old Lincoln Tomb Stone is so old it is pre-fan. Because of no external cooling it has very large gauge wire in the coils.

 

[razerface]

Take the cover off and look,,,won't be hard to figure out. Like was said,,unless it is engine fired, there are very few moving parts. unplug it first,,,,,,

 

[Bret Hart]

Owners and parts manuals can be found here: http://www.millerwelds.com/service/ownersmanuals.php

 

[j7art2]

Thanks. That'll give me a start at least. I had no idea what was inside these things, and I know some electric motors don't operate well in the extreme cold (my drill press is a prime example). All I know is the thing weighs 114lbs, has 2 wheels that are useless, and that after learning to weld, I now must resurrect this thing because welding is a blast.

I found stick welding to be significantly easier than MIG welding too. I got to try both side by side on my friend's farm using his old 60 year old Lincoln tombstone and a Century 225 mig welder with tank. I can't MIG weld a straight or solid line worth beans.

 

[mopar440_6]

Let me preface by saying I'm extremely jealous that you got an AC/DC Thunderbolt for free. I paid more than I really wanted to for mine. That said, these old buzz boxes are extremely simple creatures but they tend to get neglected. Find the right manual for your serial number range, unplug the thing and get the cover off of it. The squealing is likely the fan hitting something or the motor is going bad. While you're in there, clean up the cobwebs, dust, and metal shavings. (I vacuumed about 15lbs of metal shavings out of mine). Then maybe grease the transformer slide if you can find the right grease, the manual should tell you what is needed.

As far as the welding goes, MIG does tend to be easier for most people. The only way you'll get better is seat time. You're actually starting closer to where I wish most people would. IMHO, the proper order to learn is oxy/acetylene, stick, MIG, then TIG. Practice as much as you can. Since those two wheels are useless, get it running and weld yourself up a cart to keep it on.

If you're needing more welding specific advice, head over to http://weldingweb.com/

 

[j7art2]

I'll check into it for sure. I think it's going to be warm this weekend (32*F!!) and I'm going to tear into it provided I feel better as I'm getting over a nasty cold. My initial thought was to just get an $8 harbor freight mover's dolly for it, but maybe I'll go all out and make a cart for it. I hope the parts are reasonably priced if I need to get replacements.

What did you have 15lbs of metal shavings from? Slag?

 

[mopar440_6]

I'll check into it for sure. I think it's going to be warm this weekend (32*F!!) and I'm going to tear into it provided I feel better as I'm getting over a nasty cold. My initial thought was to just get an $8 harbor freight mover's dolly for it, but maybe I'll go all out and make a cart for it. I hope the parts are reasonably priced if I need to get replacements.

What did you have 15lbs of metal shavings from? Slag?

If you know what you're looking for, replacement parts shouldn't be too difficult to find. Ebay is usually a start and most Miller dealers can get parts.

Apparently, the previous owner kept the welder on a bench across from the welding table. Anytime he would grind anything down the sparks and filings were all thrown in that direction and thus the fan of the welder pulled them in. I even found a pencil in there. It was dirty for sure but it runs like a champ now with my scratch-start TIG setup.

 

[j7art2]

Gotcha. I'll let you know what I find this weekend. I hope it works. Even with cheaper gas, spending half a day driving to pick up a 114lb paper weight isn't fun.

I also need to rewire my 240 plug. The 240 plug currently is for a dryer. Didn't know the difference when I installed it.

 

[j7art2]

How do I get the cover off? I can't seem to figure out how to remove the hand crank (amperage adjustment) off the top, allowing me to slide the cover off.

 

[j7art2]

Found the manual. Think i got it.

 

[j7art2]

Wanted to update you guys on this. I got her going. Squeaky fan. It seems to work pretty well now. I couldn't strike an arc on galvanized metal for some reason, but had no problem with cast iron, and welded the lid onto an old rusty cast iron pot I was planning on scrapping. lol

Thanks for the help.

 

[Jags]

I got her going.

Good news.

 

[mopar440_6]

Wanted to update you guys on this. I got her going. Squeaky fan. It seems to work pretty well now. I couldn't strike an arc on galvanized metal for some reason, but had no problem with cast iron, and welded the lid onto an old rusty cast iron pot I was planning on scrapping. lol

Thanks for the help.

Awesome! The TBs are great units.

On a side note, do NOT weld galvanized if you can in any way avoid it. The fumes from galvanized are nasty stuff. The reason you couldn't strike an arc was likely due to bad ground contact. Preparation is 90% of the battle when welding. Make sure your metal is super clean and shiny where you're welding and where your ground clamp goes. A 4-1/2" angle grinder and some flap wheels make a world of difference.

Also, NEVER, under any circumstances, use brake cleaner or any chlorinated solvent to clean something you're going to weld. Articles below explaining why...

http://www.popsci.com/diy/article/2009-12/dont-get-careless

http://www.brewracingframes.com/safety-alert-brake-cleaner--phosgene-gas.html

 

[j7art2]

Good thing to know. I had no idea. I'm learning all of this stuff as I go along. I seem to be a decent welder so far, but obviously when it comes to this kind of stuff, have little to no experience.

Right now I'm trying to figure out a way to get my welder to work in my basement but don't have a 240 plug. I want to weld in a few rods to hold firebrick against the walls of my wood furnace. It's a stupid design that only has firebrick on the bottom. I'm losing all my heat out the top and out the sides, but I wouldn't expect anything less with a dinosaur. I'm half tempted to build secondary burn tubes too, but am a bit nervous about cutting into my firebox.

 

[Dune]

Awesome! The TBs are great units.

On a side note, do NOT weld galvanized if you can in any way avoid it. The fumes from galvanized are nasty stuff. The reason you couldn't strike an arc was likely due to bad ground contact. Preparation is 90% of the battle when welding. Make sure your metal is super clean and shiny where you're welding and where your ground clamp goes. A 4-1/2" angle grinder and some flap wheels make a world of difference.

Also, NEVER, under any circumstances, use brake cleaner or any chlorinated solvent to clean something you're going to weld. Articles below explaining why...

http://www.popsci.com/diy/article/2009-12/dont-get-careless

http://www.brewracingframes.com/safety-alert-brake-cleaner--phosgene-gas.html

Flap wheels are for finishing welds not removing large amounts of metal. Prepping zinc coated steel for welding requires a hard wheel and a good digging angle as well.
Flap wheels will polish the zinc so it looks like clean steel and leave more than enough zinc behind to kill you if your area is poorly ventilated.

Also, weld zinc coated steel with 6010 or 6011 for sufficient penetration.

 

[mopar440_6]

Flap wheels are for finishing welds not removing large amounts of metal. Prepping zinc coated steel for welding requires a hard wheel and a good digging angle as well.
Flap wheels will polish the zinc so it looks like clean steel and leave more than enough zinc behind to kill you if your area is poorly ventilated.

Also, weld zinc coated steel with 6010 or 6011 for sufficient penetration.

Guess I should have been more specific. Dune is correct; flap wheels will not remove zinc coating. You need something much more aggressive for galvanized. I just prefer to avoid welding the stuff altogether. I was referring to flap wheels for general prep, removing rust and mill scale, and weld cleanup. I've also had very good luck with 36 grit 5" sanding discs (Merit Abrasives, specifically made for metal) and a stiff backing plate. With a good digging angle they will remove LOTS of metal in a hurry. Sometimes too much. If you don't already have one, get yourself a good 4-1/2" angle grinder and an assortment of hard and cutoff wheels, flap wheels, and maybe some sanding discs.

Good thing to know. I had no idea. I'm learning all of this stuff as I go along. I seem to be a decent welder so far, but obviously when it comes to this kind of stuff, have little to no experience.

Right now I'm trying to figure out a way to get my welder to work in my basement but don't have a 240 plug. I want to weld in a few rods to hold firebrick against the walls of my wood furnace. It's a stupid design that only has firebrick on the bottom. I'm losing all my heat out the top and out the sides, but I wouldn't expect anything less with a dinosaur. I'm half tempted to build secondary burn tubes too, but am a bit nervous about cutting into my firebox.

As far as getting the welder to work without 240v, that's just not going to happen. IF you are extremely well versed in electrical and your breaker panel is near where you need to weld, you could temporarily disconnect your range and use a short piece of cable and an outlet box to make a sort of extension cord for the welder. The better option would be to find someone who has a 120v portable MIG and beg/borrow/rent/steal that for a day. It's a bit different than SMAW but if you can run a bead with a stick welder, generally you can run with a MIG. Or you could just buy another welder.

 

[Jags]

Also keep in mind that welding indoors requires a pretty robust exhaust system. If not, the resultant smoke will hang like a cloud over Chernobyl.

 

[Dune]

Good thing to know. I had no idea. I'm learning all of this stuff as I go along. I seem to be a decent welder so far, but obviously when it comes to this kind of stuff, have little to no experience.

Right now I'm trying to figure out a way to get my welder to work in my basement but don't have a 240 plug. I want to weld in a few rods to hold firebrick against the walls of my wood furnace. It's a stupid design that only has firebrick on the bottom. I'm losing all my heat out the top and out the sides, but I wouldn't expect anything less with a dinosaur. I'm half tempted to build secondary burn tubes too, but am a bit nervous about cutting into my firebox.

Wise choice. Unless you can figure out a way to test the integrity of your welds, it is not a good idea to work on your firebox.

 

[Bret Chase]

Awesome! The TBs are great units.

On a side note, do NOT weld galvanized if you can in any way avoid it. The fumes from galvanized are nasty stuff. The reason you couldn't strike an arc was likely due to bad ground contact. Preparation is 90% of the battle when welding. Make sure your metal is super clean and shiny where you're welding and where your ground clamp goes. A 4-1/2" angle grinder and some flap wheels make a world of difference.

Also, NEVER, under any circumstances, use brake cleaner or any chlorinated solvent to clean something you're going to weld. Articles below explaining why...

http://www.popsci.com/diy/article/2009-12/dont-get-careless

http://www.brewracingframes.com/safety-alert-brake-cleaner--phosgene-gas.html

*sigh*...............

 

[Whitepine2]

Awesome! The TBs are great units.

On a side note, do NOT weld galvanized if you can in any way avoid it. The fumes from galvanized are nasty stuff. The reason you couldn't strike an arc was likely due to bad ground contact. Preparation is 90% of the battle when welding. Make sure your metal is super clean and shiny where you're welding and where your ground clamp goes. A 4-1/2" angle grinder and some flap wheels make a world of difference.

Also, NEVER, under any circumstances, use brake cleaner or any chlorinated solvent to clean something you're going to weld. Articles below explaining why...

http://www.popsci.com/diy/article/2009-12/dont-get-careless

http://www.brewracingframes.com/safety-alert-brake-cleaner--phosgene-gas.html

And never weld a tire rim with inflated tire or one with fix-a-flat some of these
products very explosive.

 

[Dune]

And never weld a tire rim with inflated tire or one with fix-a-flat some of these
products very explosive.

In Mass it is illegal to weld any tire rims for road use.

 

[j7art2]

I don't plan on welding tire rims any time soon. Lol.

I also won't be welding galvanized or zinc coated stuff. I've got a ton of bed frame material though, just with paint that I could use for welding, and probably will.

Now the next question is, where the heck do you get scrap steel for projects? I'm considering making a snow plow for my quad but would need to make a mount. I'll just buy a used plow likely.

 

[mopar440_6]

Bed frames are great for practice but don't hold much structural value. As for material for projects, start looking around for recycling yards and local fab/welding shops. Some recycling yards will keep usable pieces of steel to resell for slightly more than scrap prices. Most fab shops will sell "drops" (leftovers after a piece is cut to size) for reasonable prices. My projects are usually large enough anymore that I just call the local shop and have them order me full sticks/sheets and then I put the drops on my pile to be used later.

 

[Dune]

Typical bedframes are hardened 1085 (.85 carbon). To put that into perspective, and give you a start down the long road of metallurgy that any safe welder needs at least cursory knowledge of;

Files are 1-1.2%.
Hammer heads are usually 1045
auto springs are 1060 (old) or 5160 (modern) 5160 makes good swords!
Wood chisels 1070-1090 I actually make v shaped gouges (wood chisels) from bedframe.
Mild steel, is under .3%
Cold rolled steel (machinery shafting) is 1018
Railroad rail is 1085 (no coincidence, bedframe is made from recycled track)


So, depending upon the job, You need to allow for stress cracking, work hardening,
cut only with an abrasive saw, drill only with special bits (not high speed steel)
and weld with at least 70 series wire (7014, 7018)

To all the decriers I have one word; yet.