State of the Wood Burning Industry

[jatoxico]

Not sure if this was posted or if it managed to escape the sharp eyes of the Hearth membership but here is an interesting article on the current sales and direction of the wood burning industry from a manufacturers point of view. Not sure if its the $%*& gubment, the big box stores or global warming but sales are a bit flat.

http://www.hearthandhome.com/magazine/2017-03-21/wood_stoves.html

 

[bholler]

It is relatively low oil and gas prices. It slows down wood stove sales every time

 

[begreen]

Consumer sales in general have fallen off this year. This will probably continue due to market uncertainty.

 

[jatoxico]

It is relatively low oil and gas prices. It slows down wood stove sales every time

My thought as well though the comments that box store stoves are pressuring the dealer sold units sounds legit too.

 

[bholler]

My thought as well though the comments that box store stoves are pressuring the dealer sold units sounds legit too.

I honestly didn't read the article yet I will but The box stores have been there selling stoves for a long time not sure why that would have more effect now.

 

[jatoxico]

I honestly didn't read the article yet I will but The box stores have been there selling stoves for a long time not sure why that would have more effect now.

The explanation for flat sales was multi-faceted including manufacturers being focused on new regs etc. but as far as box store stoves the idea was/is that consumers have less spending power so if they are buying, they are more likely to go with the cheapest unit.

The tie in I see is that oil prices being what they are consumers are buying cheap to realize a reasonable pay back time. With higher oil pay back time goes down and the buyer is more likely to spend a bit more on "frills".

 

[webby3650]

My thought as well though the comments that box store stoves are pressuring the dealer sold units sounds legit too.

The big box stores don't have quality stoves that the hearth stores carry. They offer budget stoves, their targeted market were never going to drop the coin for a stove at a hearth store anyway. It's only competition for the few entry level stoves that hearth stores carry.

 

[jatoxico]

The big box stores don't have quality stoves that the hearth stores carry. They offer budget stoves, their targeted market were never going to drop the coin for a stove at a hearth store anyway. It's only competition for the few entry level stoves that hearth stores carry.

Maybe. I figure stoves are pretty much like any other consumer item. When the economy is doing well and people feel secure they're more likely to spend more. When things are tighter people buy what they need at the best price they can get.

 

[webby3650]

The woodstove and fireplace industry fluctuates annually, always has. Low fuel prices, warm winters in much of the US.. are the biggest drivers of this from what I've seen over the years. The big box stores have little to no impact in our area, I'll bet that's the case in most areas.

 

[bholler]

The woodstove and fireplace industry fluctuates annually, always has. Low fuel prices, warm winters in much of the US.. are the biggest drivers of this from what I've seen over the years. The big box stores have little to no impact in our area, I'll bet that's the case in most areas.

Same here and most of the people who get stoves there dont call us unless there is a problem they cant fogure out. Nothing wrong with that just a totally different market

 

[defiant3]

The past 2 seasons in many parts of the country have been mild , even warm in some cases! Combined with cheap oil that surely has to hurt. I can't help thinking too that perhaps we've reached a price ceiling of sorts. Stoves seem to be pricing themselves out of reach of many consumers that I talk to. $3000.00 or so plus delivery, installation, and disposal of an old stove is just too much!

 

[firefighterjake]

Not much to add that hasn't already been said . . . high oil prices = more sales of woodstoves. Back in 2008 just finding a Quadrafire or Harman pellet stove for sale was a challenge . . . and while one could find woodstoves more easily I know sales were pretty strong. Of course oil prices were floating around $4 per gallon at the time.

 

[heatwise]

Good article that I enjoyed .Seems to me that stoves are like looking for furniture. One brand is built well and will last a lifetime and on the low end it is available in a box you put together yourself. And then theyres more In between based on taste etc. so many choices and so much to consider. My guess would be once we see a spike in fuel costs along with a series of bitter cold winters ,sales will go straight up. greatfull for all the choices we have available.

 

[jatoxico]

The woodstove and fireplace industry fluctuates annually, always has.

Maybe the case when taking a small regional view but in terms of total sales, and according to the article, the expectation is that sales are pretty stable with slow but steady growth.

The big box stores have little to no impact in our area, I'll bet that's the case in most areas.

Again maybe the case on a local level but a couple of the company officers interviewed disagree w/ your assessment.

 

[webby3650]

I'll also add that a lot of our customers bought a cheapie from a big box store, once they got their feet wet they came to us for a quality stove.

 

[Newburnerwisconsin]

The past 2 seasons in many parts of the country have been mild , even warm in some cases! Combined with cheap oil that surely has to hurt. I can't help thinking too that perhaps we've reached a price ceiling of sorts. Stoves seem to be pricing themselves out of reach of many consumers that I talk to. $3000.00 or so plus delivery, installation, and disposal of an old stove is just too much!

I totally agree with this comment. Stoves are getting too expensive. Not to mention replacement parts.....wow. Some manufacturers have incentives and sales all year long now. But with shipping and install.... it simply too much money for a lot of people.

 

[webby3650]

I totally agree with this comment. Stoves are getting too expensive. Not to mention replacement parts.....wow. Some manufacturers have incentives and sales all year long now. But with shipping and install.... it simply too much money for a lot of people.

This can be attributed to the amount of money it takes for a manufacturer to bring a stove to the market. The government is squeezing the life out of manufacturing and testing. Clean is no longer clean enough.. this added expense trickles down to the consumer. The cost is getting out of control, no doubt about it.

 

[Ashful]

Consumer sales in general have fallen off this year. This will probably continue due to market uncertainty.

Under what rock have you been living, begreen?

http://money.cnn.com/2017/03/29/investing/consumer-confidence-trump-economy/

My investments are up 15%, almost across the board, since Election Day!

 

[EatenByLimestone]

My investment accounts have been growing nicely too. Jobs numbers are positive. I just hope the Fed doesn't raise rates too fast in their exuberance. I think I'd rather they slowly pull money out of the system to achieve their goals.

 

[jatoxico]

I totally agree with this comment. Stoves are getting too expensive. Not to mention replacement parts.....wow. Some manufacturers have incentives and sales all year long now. But with shipping and install.... it simply too much money for a lot of people.

True. And while I generally applaud the push towards cleaner and cleaner stoves it does come at cost both in a lack of other design developments and in final expense to the consumer.

 

[begreen]

Under what rock have you been living, begreen?

http://money.cnn.com/2017/03/29/investing/consumer-confidence-trump-economy/

My investments are up 15%, almost across the board, since Election Day!

Mine too, but past performance is no guarantee of future gains. Auto sales are down and delinquencies are up. Consumer confidence went down in April. Consumer debt is at $3.9 trillion.
https://www.conference-board.org/data/consumerconfidence.cfm
I've done well too, but that doesn't mean it's going to last. As the past has shown, market exuberance does not reflect reality. We're not quite at dot.com levels yet, but it's starting to feel like it. We're in a bubble and bubbles pop. It may take 6 months or a year, but to think that this long running spree (93 months now) will continue forever is not something I'd bank on.
http://fortune.com/2017/03/09/stock-market-bull-market-longest/
History says we are overdue for a correction. With massive govt. personnel layoffs looming, exactly where are those people going to be employed? More places that looks troubling on the horizon are the millions in state and city pension plans that are not going to be able to meet their obligations. Not comforting when 1 in 3 Americans have 0$ saved for retirement. A full 2/3ds - 66% have less than $50K saved. Not all is rosy in our economy. The odds are there's going to be a reset. The trigger may come from outside the US, but I expect it will come sooner than some think.

 

[begreen]

True. And while I generally applaud the push towards cleaner and cleaner stoves it does come at cost both in a lack of other design developments and in final expense to the consumer.

There are some contradictions. The inexpensive NC30 seems to show that future standards can be met by some without additional cost.

 

[jatoxico]

There are some contradictions. The inexpensive NC30 seems to show that future standards can be met by some without additional cost.

Well that was why earlier I agreed with the articles point about box store stoves. I feel the articles point about the impact of them on dealer sold units is legit. Englander's and even the single burn rate units mentioned (Vogelzang?) meet the current standards and can be had at reasonable cost. Saving that $1-2K allows for a quicker pay back which justifies an otherwise unjustifiable purchase for many.

But they are no frills which it seems is what the market currently favors. The comment by HHT about the relative failure of their thermostatically controlled unit speaks to this. I don't know how well the design was executed but with a poor reception and R&D money going towards meeting regs, HHT and others manufacturers are less likely to risk development of other innovative designs at the moment. Once oil etc. prices rise things may change but it takes time to bring a product to market and I'm guessing the manufacturers can't turn on a dime.

 

[webby3650]

Well that was why earlier I agreed with the articles point about box store stoves. I feel the articles point about the impact of them on dealer sold units is legit. Englander's and even the single burn rate units mentioned (Vogelzang?) meet the current standards and can be had at reasonable cost. Saving that $1-2K allows for a quicker pay back which justifies an otherwise unjustifiable purchase for many.

But they are no frills which it seems is what the market currently favors. The comment by HHT about the relative failure of their thermostatically controlled unit speaks to this. I don't know how well the design was executed but with a poor reception and R&D money going towards meeting regs, HHT and others manufacturers are less likely to risk development of other innovative designs at the moment. Once oil etc. prices rise things may change but it takes time to bring a product to market and I'm guessing the manufacturers can't turn on a dime.

Wood stove manufacturers all have stoves in testing that may or may not make it to market. Many implementing new technology, some just trying different configurations using the same technology they have been successful with. For the most part, they will be prepared for what the market throws at them. Now wether very many of them will meet the new EPA standards being implemented is up for debate...

 

[begreen]

Also note that the EPA incentive ended at the end of 2016. That was a $300 savings which helped boost sales.