Still Learning

[FireRod]

After all the years burning wood for heat this season has been full of new learning. Prior to this season I built a wood shed. What a difference burning dry wood compared to burning wood I thought was dry. My burn times were much longer and much hotter too. If I would have know the benefits of having dryer wood I would have taken out a loan to build this shed years ago. LOL Next year my wood will not only be dryer but seasoned properly also. I have wood split from last summer under a tarp and ready to move into the shed after this season.

The only issue I had this winter was when the temps got into the teens and lower. It seemed like my little Jotul 3CB was not up to the task. When the temps were between the mid 20's to mid 30's I was able to maintain 74° in my home without a problem. My 900 sg. ft. house is all masonry construction. So when it was cold for a while it was harder to keep warm. But the advantage is when it has been warm for a while it takes a good day or two to cool down. I thought about upgrading to a Jotul Castline 400 but I am worried that during the warmer days a larger stove will be too hot. When the temps are in the 40's I do have to be careful not to load up the stove with a full load, so instead I put a piece or two in every couple of hours so I don't loose my fire.

This is the second year I have had this Jotul 3CB, years before I had a inexpensive boxwood stove. Any thoughts on the Castline 400?

 

[realstihl]

Don't know anything about Jotul's but that's a nice wood shed. Dry wood is the key.

 

[Woody Stover]

When the temps were between the mid 20's to mid 30's I was able to maintain 74° in my home without a problem. My 900 sg. ft. house is all masonry construction. So when it was cold for a while it was harder to keep warm.

Is the interior of your stone house finished with 2 x 4s and insulation? How is the attic insulation? Good windows? Any weatherization you can do is going to be your best payoff, and will allow you to do better with the stove you have now. Our small place isn't masonry but has log exterior and about 1" thick wallboard that contains aggregate so the problem is the same; When the walls cool off it takes several hours to warm up the interior again. It's not the tightest house as far as air infiltration, either. I have a cat stove so a full load goes for a long time but at a lower output so I don't cook us out and the walls still stay warm. The soapstone also holds heat well so I still feel radiation off the stove when the load is down to coals. With outside temps of 40/20 I can keep it around 70 in here with two loads a day. When it's windy and low teens/ low 20s out and cold air is moving between the logs and the wallboard, I have to burn the stove a bit hotter and load a couple extra splits now and then.
The Castine will put out more heat but output will still be dropping off at the end of an overnight burn. If you are around during the day to add a few splits like you've been doing, that'll work, and you'll probably be able to recover room temp a little quicker. If you're not opposed to a cat stove, the new Woodstock Absolute might be worth a look, or one of the Blaze Kings. Plenty of heat still coming off the stove after 12 hrs. I'm definitely looking at the Absolute because I've been impressed with Woodstock quality construction and ease of maintenance, but would probably hold off a bit as they tweak this new design some more. I think this stove would be big enough to keep our place warm on 12-hr. loads, even if it's quite cold and windy out. In a tighter, better insulated house of 1000 sq.ft, in our climate, it might be overkill...

 

[jetsam]

Woody beat me to all the things I was going to say. Insulation, Blaze King.

I was burning my BK the other day when it was 55 and sunny out. They can burn lower and slower than a lot of people realize.

 

[begreen]

Most of us are still learning. This year we've been burning deeper into the shoulder season than ever before. With a little modification of technique we are getting 12 hr burns in 50 degree weather and not overheating the house. That's a first for us.

 

[Sprinter]

Most of us are still learning. This year we've been burning deeper into the shoulder season than ever before. With a little modification of technique we are getting 12 hr burns in 50 degree weather and not overheating the house. That's a first for us.

So what's the secret? I love these moderate temps (not the rain so much, though), but it makes it difficult to get any kind of burn time. I usually have to make pretty small fires, but getting a small fire hot enough to be efficient means it doesn't last too long. It's a good time of year to use the lesser quality wood though.

 

[Woody Stover]

Most of us are still learning. This year we've been burning deeper into the shoulder season than ever before. With a little modification of technique we are getting 12 hr burns in 50 degree weather and not overheating the house. That's a first for us.

Yeah, if you want to stay with a tube stove, you might consider getting one like begreen's, with a cast iron convective jacket. It absorbs some of the initial burst of heat into the cast iron, avoiding the roast-out, then releases that heat later to give you a more even output. The soft, radiant heat of the soapstone works out pretty well for us. Our place is one fairly open room, plus a bedroom. Our chairs in the living area are pretty close to the stove so even if the room temp has dropped a couple degrees, we're still toasty when near the stove. I can feel a little radiant heat from 20' away, if in line-of-sight of the stove.

 

[FireRod]

Is the interior of your stone house finished with 2 x 4s and insulation?

My house was built in 1945 w/cinder block and concrete covering the exterior. The interior is firing strip and drywall (no insulation). I did replaced all the windows and my attic is insulated. The doors (2) are original but are well sealed. I recently use a Thermal Imaging Gun and the results were really much better than I expected showing normal temp changes at windows and doors. My biggest problem is the walls and there isn't much I can do with them without spending a lot of money.

 

[AmbDrvr253]

Can always build a smaller fire in a large firebox. Can never do the reverse(big fire in small firebox)

 

[FireRod]

Can always build a smaller fire in a large firebox. Can never do the reverse(big fire in small firebox)

So you're saying a larger woodstove wouldn't be a problem as long as I didn't fully load it?

 

[mellow]

I wouldn't go above 2.4 cu feet for a tube stove, but yes you can go bigger and load it less. If you want to go even bigger you can with a cat stove.

 

[FireRod]

tube stove

What is a tube stove?

 

[Sprinter]

So you're saying a larger woodstove wouldn't be a problem as long as I didn't fully load it?

It's always tricky to properly size a stove. Most folks will say that it's better to go little bigger if in doubt because yes, you can build small fires in a large box as long as it's hot enough to stay efficient. I do it all the time in warmer weather. With a larger stove, you can also get longer burn times if that's important for you.

If you don't mind supplementing your heat occasionally with electric or whatever in the coldest weather, many people get along fine with a slightly undersized stove, especially if you like the house on the cool side anyway. But it sounds like you would be happier with a stove on the large-ish side, but don't overdo it.

 

[mellow]

What is a tube stove?

Sure, it is a stove like what you have right now, uses air tubes/baffle for smoke reburn.

 

[FireRod]

But if you don't mind supplementing your heat occasionally with electric or whatever in the coldest weather, many people get along fine with a slightly undersized stove, especially if you like the house on the cool side anyway.

I have oil heat as well and I did run the oil furnace when it got really cold during the night. It seemed to warm the entire house so when it became daytime and the temps were higher I ran the stove again. I didn't mind running the oil furnace this year due to the lower oil prices.

 

[Sprinter]

Sure, it is a stove like what you have right now, uses air tubes/baffle for smoke reburn.

Right. Sometimes the term is used for any non-cat stove. Some stoves, like most Pacific Energy stoves, don't use tubes per se but are a non-cat technology and are operated the same so could be considered a "tube stove" anyway.

 

[Sprinter]

When the temps are in the 40's I do have to be careful not to load up the stove with a full load, so instead I put a piece or two in every couple of hours so I don't loose my fire.

How often does it get into the teens and hard to heat? If it's just occasionally, you may want to leave well enough alone, especially with the cost of a new one. But if it's often and a problem, then the F400 may be just enough larger to make a difference. The F400 is 1.77 cf to your current 1,17 cf which doesn't sound oversized in your situation, especially if you can't insulate the walls economically.

Are you able to keep the secondaries going by occasionally putting a split or two in at a time? Usually, that's not the most efficient way to do it, but keeping the secondaries hot is the most important thing. It helps if you are at home most of the time to tend the stove as necessary. I'm retired now and can tend the stove most days, but in my working life, I would have wanted long burn times, so a larger stove would have been more important to me.

Nice shed, BTW...

 

[Bigsby]

Prior to this season I built a wood shed.

Nice job on the shed. That looks like the perfect size for the limited space on my property. How many cord does it hold?

 

[Easy Livin’ 3000]

After all the years burning wood for heat this season has been full of new learning. Prior to this season I built a wood shed. What a difference burning dry wood compared to burning wood I thought was dry. My burn times were much longer and much hotter too. If I would have know the benefits of having dryer wood I would have taken out a loan to build this shed years ago. LOL Next year my wood will not only be dryer but seasoned properly also. I have wood split from last summer under a tarp and ready to move into the shed after this season.
View attachment 176064
The only issue I had this winter was when the temps got into the teens and lower. It seemed like my little Jotul 3CB was not up to the task. When the temps were between the mid 20's to mid 30's I was able to maintain 74° in my home without a problem. My 900 sg. ft. house is all masonry construction. So when it was cold for a while it was harder to keep warm. But the advantage is when it has been warm for a while it takes a good day or two to cool down. I thought about upgrading to a Jotul Castline 400 but I am worried that during the warmer days a larger stove will be too hot. When the temps are in the 40's I do have to be careful not to load up the stove with a full load, so instead I put a piece or two in every couple of hours so I don't loose my fire.
View attachment 176066
This is the second year I have had this Jotul 3CB, years before I had a inexpensive boxwood stove. Any thoughts on the Castline 400?

Awesome shed, Rod. I am jealous! I feel like I have similar problems in my house, as you describe. I am going to tighten things up sometime between now and next winter, improve my block-off plate, and I bet most of the issues will go away. Good luck with your situation.

 

[heavy hammer]

As others have said you can have a small fire in a big stove but not the opposite. We have an Oslo for our 1600 plus square foot home. I did over insulate the house years before the big stove purchase, but on warm days we can still have a small fire and not cook us out. I went one one size larger for the stove and I love it and glad I did it works out well in the real cold, and when it warms up just dial it back. Small splits, been burning cedar splits on the warm days stuff like that. Seems like we only cook our selfs out is in the real cold, but it takes nothing to just turn it down. So I would say if you can justify the cost of replacing the stove/upgrading do it.

 

[Cynnergy]

So what's the secret? I love these moderate temps (not the rain so much, though), but it makes it difficult to get any kind of burn time. I usually have to make pretty small fires, but getting a small fire hot enough to be efficient means it doesn't last too long. It's a good time of year to use the lesser quality wood though.

To the OP - sorry for being off-topic, your woodshed is gorgeous. Try to let your tarped wood air out a bit before putting it in the shed - I've had issues with the wood at the back of my shed not being dry enough.

Sprinter - we split our wood to 14" and then I put a big chunk E/W at the very back, and fill the rest of the first layer N/S (from cold to get the fire going). We fill the rest of the Super E/W. Turn it down as soon as you can once the fire is well established. We get 10hr burns with that. Stovetop temps usually hit max 500f.

 

[Sprinter]

Sprinter - we split our wood to 14" and then I put a big chunk E/W at the very back, and fill the rest of the first layer N/S (from cold to get the fire going). We fill the rest of the Super E/W. Turn it down as soon as you can once the fire is well established. We get 10hr burns with that. Stovetop temps usually hit max 500f.

I'll try it. Thanks. Makes sense that E-W would be a slower burn.

 

[begreen]

So what's the secret? I love these moderate temps (not the rain so much, though), but it makes it difficult to get any kind of burn time. I usually have to make pretty small fires, but getting a small fire hot enough to be efficient means it doesn't last too long. It's a good time of year to use the lesser quality wood though.

What I changed this year is mixing a little hardwood with softwood and shutting down the stove based on flue temp, not stove top temp. The hardwood takes longer to ignite and produces lingering coals. In previous years I had been shutting down according to stove top temp. But that would get the fire going too intensely and wasted a lot of fuel potential. This year I start closing down the air when the flue temp (probe measured) reaches about 600F. The stove top could be reading 250F at that point. I close it down aggressively as long as the fire maintains itself, albeit with a lazier flame, at the lower setting. Most of the time this is with the stove loaded about 75-80% full. The cast iron jacket also helps a lot to even out the temp swing.

With 45F at night, typically when I get up the house is at 66-67F. We like it cooler at night for sleeping. My daytime target temp is to bring the house up to about 70-72F by late afternoon. The evening reload is smaller and at this time of year with these temps (45F at night, 50-52F daytime) the fire will be out by the morning and I need to restart. Fortunately we have an abundance of dry wood and kindling. A supercedar chunk and a couple pieces of kindling have the fire started in about 10 minutes. This is with N/S loading. We were 48F last night and hit 59F today so I did not start a fire. This is heat pump territory. By Sunday it looks like we will be cooling down to 45/50ºF and will be burning again for next week.

 

[Sprinter]

Thanks, bg. I'll try that too. It's always interesting to try new techniques. It's the tinkerer in me I guess. How much difference do you think your Alderlea's cast iron surround helps in situations like this? I sometimes with I'd gone that way rather than the Super, but I like it a lot and won't be replacing it anytime soon.

 

[begreen]

Yes, the mass of the stove does help reduce temperature swing a lot. That said, the stove is just a tool. It's up to me to figure out how to take advantage of its qualities and use them to the best advantage for the particular situation. If the stove was more radiant I might have to burn in a shorter pulse and glide method. Everyone's home will have different heating requirements. Explore and try new things. Let us know how they work out.