Summit Insert burning too fast and dropping temps quick

[atom631]

some updates...

1.) I have an energy audit scheduled for my home this monday. So I will get to see where/if my heat is going.

2.) I purchased some legit 1 1/2yr seasoned wood. All nice, big split hardwood.

So with the new/good wood I do notice that the heat output of the stove is definitely better. I am also getting longer burn times, but not much. I would say my burn times went from 4-5 hrs to 5-6hours (still no where near the 10hours PE claims on the website). So not much of a difference, however the stove temp remains higher for longer...which is good.

So while the seasoned wood made a difference, it wasn't a huge improvement to my situation.

Something I noticed about this insert that is bothering me is that it doesn't radiate heat AT ALL. Zero, none. Its so little that I never needed to move my TV (if you look in the pics in the post you can see where it is) which is only around 18" from my stove. In fact, the TV doesn't even get warm to the touch. Not even a little bit. I keep my ash bucket and fireplace tools on the hearth and they don't get warm at all (both are less than 1' away from stove). The stone is only slightly warm directly above the stove and cool 2' or more higher up. Unless you're standing directly in front of it and over 3' you don't even feel heat.

This is why I need to keep the blower on 24/7, which I think is causing the wood to burn faster and the temps in the box to drop. Im still scratching my head around the their genius idea of having the blower blow directly down across the front of the glass. All its doinig is heating up my hearth and floor. You cant even feel the air moving when you are more than 4' away. Such a dumb design.

Also - as of the end of October, Ive gone through 115 gallons of oil and Im probably around 4 cords of wood gone. Other than the first week of january where we had some really cold weather, its been mild too.

 

[begreen]

How is measuring burn time being measured? This is not a radiant stove, it's a convective stove. It only radiates heat from the front and a bit from the top. It's not dumb design. This is quite intentional. The design affords much closer clearances and a softer heat. For some homes this works very well. We have the cast iron clad version and rarely use the blower at all. That's because a convective stove works very well with our open floorplan. The heat is even and there is little temperature swing between loadings.

It could be you bought the wrong stove. There was a thread a couple years back with an old fellow that had the same complaints. The stove was working well once he learned how to run it, but he was never satisfied. After many different threads on the topic it turned out that what he missed was the strong radiant heat of his old stove. He bought a cheap replacement with no side shielding and was happy.

 

[Hogwildz]

Hardwood at 1 or 1-1/2 years old ain't ready in my book.
I have heat without blower in power outage situations, so the stove will still heat plenty.
As BG said, it is a convective stove. I run the fan 24/7 and get plenty of heat.
Running the fan does not make it burn any faster.
You may not have flames for 10 hrs, but it will put out heat for 10 hrs. Just not as much near the end of the burn. The last 2 or 3 hours will be the end of the coals stage, and in frigid temps, just may not be able to keep up with the cooling of the house &/or heat loss of the place. I run into that on the single digit nights, and either deal with the temperature swings in the house, or run the furnace some to supplement.

At 4 full cords, something is being done wrong. Or are you referring to face cords?
My first and worst year, I went through 4 cords from October to March. That's down about 1/2 to 1 cord now.
If I remember correctly, you had all that small wood? Which will burn fast.
As for where the air blows out, I cannot give any advise, as that is the newest style, and I have only burned the A & B body styles.

Don't let your frustration ruin your time. Keep experimenting, and give it some time while dialing in whatever things you find you can tweak.
Keep in mind, it may not heat your whole house due to the layout of the house.
Those of us that can heat the whole house, are fortunate enough to have a layout conducive do to so. And we are lucky to have that good fortune.
But realistically, these are space heaters, not furnaces.

 

[Grisu]

I would say my burn times went from 4-5 hrs to 5-6hours (still no where near the 10hours PE claims on the website). So not much of a difference, however the stove temp remains higher for longer...which is good.

Burn time is usually referred to as the time between reloads; not the time you see active flames. With the smaller Super I get reload times of 6 to 8 hours depending on the wood species I burn. However, I can also load it overnight and have enough of hot coals left 10 to 12 hours later for an easy restart. What is the temp of the stove 6 hours later? Where do you measure it?

Im still scratching my head around the their genius idea of having the blower blow directly down across the front of the glass.

My guess is that it has been done for closer mantel clearance and for aesthetic reasons (you don't have that "hole" over the stove when sitting in front of it). I am curious to see what the energy audit will tell you.

 

[mstoelton]

no block off plate was installed. only roxul was stuffed where the old damper was. the insert barely fit in the space. i might have room on the sides for installation but i dont think there is any room in the back. ]

There is your issue - you are losing heat up the chimney which based on your layout looks like an exterior chimney.

Put in a block-off plate, and your performance will improve!

 

[atom631]

My time from loading to reloading is around 5-6hours. If I go any longer, the temps in my house drop below 70 degrees. On milder days 40+, I can go 7hrs. I will have coal in the box for a solid 8+hrs, enough to reload, but the stove isnt producing any heat. Even with the blower on, its warm air. Usually by 6hrs the temps are under 300.

A cord to me 4x4x8. I started the season with 5.5 cords. I then added an additional 1/2 cord (closer to 2/3). I have maybe a little over 2 cords left. It will not be enough to get me thorugh mid-march.

My audit was done today but I dont get an official "score" back for a few days. He hooked up the big fan to my front door to depressurize and check for air leaks. Typical leaks were discovered. Hi-hats, caulking around windows, weather stripping around doors. Also, I keep my basement door open because its fully finished and heated. However, it appears that a lot of draft comes from down there. The rear of my house hangs out over my foundation by around 2'. That cavity is not insulated well and is letting a lot air in. So I need to look into that.

They also looked in my attic and said I need more insulation. He gave my attic an R rating of 29 and said that it should be 50. He said its not terrible, but it could be better. He also does spray insulation, so I expect him to point things out like this.

Im sure most of you know this..but the way the test works is that they look to achieve -50 (something, not sure) on their meter. The fan then ramps up the RPMs to get the house to -50. The more RPMs means the fan has to work harder to get to -50 due to air being pulled in from gaps/leaks/cracks etc. A completely new, energy start certified home are usually rated around 1500-1700. He said ideally my house should be under 2500. That would be good for 27 year old home. I was sitting around 3000. So its not terrible.

The biggest culprit..... The stove But I know that's no surprise to all of you. Its the one thing everyone has told me from day one. Block off plate is a must (and good wood). My installer refused to put one in. He said it was completely unnecessary. I know calling him now and letting him know is worthless and will just get me more aggravated. So this summer I will pull the stove and look to install one myself.

This weekend I am going to do a lot of caulking, weather stripping and I am going to drop a hefty chunk of money and buy the LED replacement hi-hats that seal them all up. I have 19 hi-hats total in my house...but the biggest culprits were these orbital ones that allow you to change the direction of the lighting. I have 8 of those and thats where I am going to start.

 

[Hogwildz]

Can lights are an absolute sieve for heat to flow through when not air sealed style cans.
Did you try closing the basement door and see if anything changes?
The uninsulated overhang will also be a serious culprit to heat loss/cold air infiltration.
My house just saw 70 yesterday, first time in over a month. Maybe your expectations exceed the insert's capacity?
Check to see if they have a builders pack for LED retrofit can light inserts.
Where in the NE are you?

I am sure a block off plate and addressing the other issues will help. But maybe, the home is just not conducive to being heated entirely with the insert.
Remember, these are space heaters, not furnaces. Some are just lucky to have a home set up that does achieve entire or large part of the home heated with the wood burner. Other, are not as fortunate.

 

[atom631]

Im on Long Island. Not far from Doing the Dixie-Eyed Shuffle.

Thats what I plan on buying the builders pack - its about 200 bux! yikes

I think next season, after I seal everything up - it will be the true test. Over the summer I also plan to look into getting my bedrooms on a separate zone, this way Im not heating the entire house just to heat bedrooms. This might save me a lot of oil.

It would be nice if I could get a teeny tiny stove in my bedroom. Something good for like 100-150 sq'.

Also - maybe this stove wasnt the right choice for me. My a stove that radiates heats and also has a blower that I can turn on when needed was a better choice.

 

[begreen]

You have a good insert. Get a block-off plate installed and burn dry wood. It will heat the place. FYI - Stoves are not allowed in bedrooms.

Summit install with a block-off plate is happening here:
https://www.hearth.com/talk/threads/pe-summit-forever-flex-liner-install.139615/#post-1876236

 

[Dix]

Im on Long Island. Not far from Doing the Dixie-Eyed Shuffle

I've been known to do that, too ....LMAO

(couldn't resist, sorry !!)

Did you get some firewood from Tommy?

 

[Spletz]

I see some Red Oak and Ash from my point of view. Tough to tell.

 

[mstoelton]

My installer refused to put one in.

This is why I did my own install. I could not find and installer willing to put the time and effort into a block off plate.

So this summer I will pull the stove and look to install one myself.

Why wait till summer. Do it now and save the oil!

You should be able to install a block-off plate in a few hours over a weekend. You will need the help of a strong backed individual to help with moving the stove.