Talk me into or out of moving back to Upstate NY!

[fire_man]

Take a look at overall tax burden per state

Overall Rank (1=Highest)	State	Total Tax Burden (%)	Property Tax Burden (%)	Individual Income Tax Burden (%)	Total Sales & Excise Tax Burden (%)

1	New York	12.79%	4.40% (6)	4.96% (1)	3.43% (22)
2	Hawaii	12.19%	2.45% (35)	3.09% (10)	6.65% (1)
3	Vermont	10.75%	5.04% (2)	2.41% (22)	3.30% (26)
4	Maine	10.50%	4.60% (4)	2.45% (21)	3.45% (20

And way down there

46

New Hampshire

6.84%

5.47% (1)

0.13% (42)

1.24% (48)

Notice a trend?

Property tax varies significantly in NH, pick the right town and taxes can vary significiantly. There are a few unorganized townships that have no property taxes (there is a commercial timber tax that pays them).

Thanks for posting. Kind of frustrating, my top picks are the worst tax wise. I'm surprised California is not in the top 4.

 

[peakbagger]

State tax policy is definitely a big subject. NH relies way to much on local property taxes, state government runs lean and pushes a lot of mandates to the towns and counties who rely on the property tax. Income taxes in theory are progressive in that the folks who are earning a living are paying them while the retired folks who are not are not. Obviously the well off have gamed the system by living off of capital gains (taxed at low rate) than on earned income. So the game in NH is to look for a property tax rich town that has high value seasonal properties in it and low year round population base. Then buy a house in corner of town away from the seasonal attraction. Those towns are getting lots of property taxes from seasonal residents with no kids in school. Meanwhile property poor towns with old housing stock and no seasonal attractions have high local property taxes and lot of families with kids that need to be educated. So when shopping for real estate it worth looking into property tax differential in different towns. I think that applies in all states with property tax but since NH depends more heavily on them there is more of swing then elsewhere. NH also has a very generous current use law for undeveloped properties, my 83 acre wood lot get taxed around $150 a year. Its quite noticeable that large forest parcels go on the market much less often than VT or Me.

 

[fire_man]

Excellent point about how property taxes can vary significantly within the same state. According to smartasset.com, Albany county in NY has an average county tax rate of 2.1 % ($5250 on a $250K home) and Monroe county near Rochester NY has an average county tax of 3.22 % ($8050 on a $250K home). The take away is you have to do a deep dive to understand where the higher property taxes really are within a state and using a one size fits all calculator can be misleading.

True about the comment on capital gains. It is kind of a loophole of sorts.

There is another factor that the calculators dont always take into accouunt - NY is very tax friendly for social security and pensions.

"In New York, all Social Security retirement benefits are exempt from taxation. Income from retirement accounts or a private pension is deductible up to $20,000. Sales and property taxes are both relatively high in New York."

 

[peakbagger]

Its trap a lot of folks get into at the low end of the market, they buy a cheap home to get their payments affordable but then get nailed by the property tax bill. At least with high payments on a mortgage there is chance of making money when the house is eventually sold. With property taxes it lost money that goes down the drain once the kids are educated. In my town which used to have average property taxes but are now high, the school system is academically highly rated. ITs small school so per pupil costs are quite high. Many families move into town with kids when they are going to school and then move to the adjacent rural towns once the kids are out of school. Many of the teachers live in the rural towns (its school co-op so the folks in the rural towns get to vote on school costs).

 

[fire_man]

The disadvantage to moving to rural towns with lower property tax and less academically rated schools is the property values dont tend to appreciate as well but I suppose retirees might not care.

 

[clancey]

Thanks for the tax chart and my they get you one way or another and I think I do notice a trend --that is the property taxes for New Hampshire is raising and (if I am reading it right)--people are retiring there for that tax seems much lower for seniors and items you buy but if this is so--then then land taxes will raise too...hoping I got this right---terrible and now all the fuel costs..clancey

 

[peakbagger]

The disadvantage to moving to rural towns with lower property tax and less academically rated schools is the property values dont tend to appreciate as well but I suppose retirees might not care.

Rural towns are attractive in my area for second homes. The homes sell for a premium in those towns. These towns are located partially in the White Mountain National Forest which is a magnet for the Mass crowd to get their first retirement homes. They tend to move away in 15 or 20 years as they need more social support services.

 

[Bad LP]

The disadvantage to moving to rural towns with lower property tax and less academically rated schools is the property values dont tend to appreciate as well but I suppose retirees might not care.

I absolutely don't care about the school and never have. We never had kids.

 

[fire_man]

Its trap a lot of folks get into at the low end of the market, they buy a cheap home to get their payments affordable but then get nailed by the property tax bill. At least with high payments on a mortgage there is chance of making money when the house is eventually sold. With property taxes it lost money that goes down the drain once the kids are educated. In my town which used to have average property taxes but are now high, the school system is academically highly rated. ITs small school so per pupil costs are quite high. Many families move into town with kids when they are going to school and then move to the adjacent rural towns once the kids are out of school. Many of the teachers live in the rural towns (its school co-op so the folks in the rural towns get to vote on school costs).

Are you saying it's a trap because these people are blindsided by a high property tax bill which they should have known about? They buy a low end market house and then get wacked with a high property tax bill?

 

[peakbagger]

Yes, the real estate agent really doesnt care what happens after they get the commission. So a homeowner buys a home on the edge of their budget and then has to come up with an extra $400 a month for property taxes.

 

[Fiddler]

Maine is full.

so is PA...........

 

[fire_man]

so is PA...........

Sorry but this is not helpful and not very hearth.com friendly.

 

[stoveliker]

Yes, the real estate agent really doesnt care what happens after they get the commission. So a homeowner buys a home on the edge of their budget and then has to come up with an extra $400 a month for property taxes.

The real estate agent has no business educating customers about their financial capacity. That is something the mortgage provider should do as they look at what you can afford. They have skin in the game. The real estate agent wants a commission, and being close to or just over the edge is not his problem. The excuse to an unhappy customer is always "you should have known; you give me a budget to work with, and I delivered".

Going to Long island, I explicitly asked about the crazy property taxes (more than 10 times those in TN...) so that I could take that into account in my monthly costs.

Thinking that one can pay the mortgage and that taxes etc won't factor into a budget is just intellectually disqualifying someone from owning a home imo.

 

[fire_man]

Thinking that one can pay the mortgage and that taxes etc won't factor into a budget is just intellectually disqualifying someone from owning a home imo.

Hard to believe anybody would do that but I guess it happens

 

[EatenByLimestone]

If you like the Albany area, but desire less political BS, look into Schoharie County. It's a half hour from Albany. Plenty of trees, mountains, wildlife, etc.

 

[fire_man]

Thanks will add that to the list to look at. I lived in Schenectady and Troy way back in time.
The Albany area looks like it has some areas with lower property taxes, at least relative to Rochester.

There is some kind of Star program for seniors in NY to reduce porperty tax over age 65. I'm a bunch of years away from that but something to consider.

 

[Bad LP]

Are you saying it's a trap because these people are blindsided by a high property tax bill which they should have known about? They buy a low end market house and then get wacked with a high property tax bill?

If somebody that stupid does not know all related costs then maybe one shouldn’t own.

 

[stoveliker]

If somebody that stupid does not know all related costs then maybe one shouldn’t own.

Or knows to ask about them. (Because Interstate moving has a lot of these "I don't know but I sure as heck need to know"-issues.

There are states where property taxes are simply not a thing one really has to budget for (if middle class and buying a middle class home).

 

[Bad LP]

Or knows to ask about them. (Because Interstate moving has a lot of these "I don't know but I sure as heck need to know"-issues.

There are states where property taxes are simply not a thing one really has to budget for (if middle class and buying a middle class home).

Call me stupid or whatever you want but knowing how to pay your way is 1st grade knowledge.
We all don’t get to land on the moon.
We still need ditch diggers and people who can work their hands.

 

[stoveliker]

Call me stupid or whatever you want but knowing how to pay your way is 1st grade knowledge.
We all don’t get to land on the moon.
We still need ditch diggers and people who can work their hands.

No, not stupid. I agree with you. However, just so you know, there are states where an 1800 sqft home on half an acre adds up to $70 property tax per month. If one then moves to, let's say, Long Island, one needs to realize that one has to ask what things really cost. For someone who has not lived (or looked) beyond ones own county, such a move can be problematic as it's not always clear what is going to be important to ask...

 

[Bad LP]

No, not stupid. I agree with you. However, just so you know, there are states where an 1800 sqft home on half an acre adds up to $70 property tax per month. If one then moves to, let's say, Long Island, one needs to realize that one has to ask what things really cost. For someone who has not lived (or looked) beyond ones own county, such a move can be problematic as it's not always clear what is going to be important to ask...

Ahhh. It’s called homework.

 

[stoveliker]

Yes. But sometimes it's not clear even what questions to ask.
Same as folks moving to another country. (I know...)

 

[fire_man]

there are states where an 1800 sqft home on half an acre adds up to $70 property tax per month.

No way really?

 

[stoveliker]

Yes. Did so myself. Ow..and also no state income tax (unless you had more than $1500 in interest income I believe - but I wouldn't know that).

 

[stoveliker]

Of course total sales tax was 9.25 pct or so. So it (no income tax but higher sales tax being advantageous) depends on the fraction of income one spends at stores.

Good for higher incomes less to for lower incomes.