Tools / Tips for Stove without an ash pan

[task]

So our little stove doesn't have an ash pan, and we need it for actual heating now. So, it's getting a lot of use and dealing with the ashes is not going well with a shovel and metal can.

I'm thinking of just shoveling everything into the metal ash pan, and then sifting the good burning embers back out with something that has holes in it. I'm not sure if there's a better way, or if there's a clever tool or something out there...??

 

[Grizzerbear]

Just push the good embers to the back, take ashes out and pull embers back to front. Some ash left in is better anyways. It insulates your coals and they will last longer when the fire is out. If you try to do this out of the stove it just creates an eventual mess of dust.

 

[maple1]

'... is not going well...' - how, exactly?

 

[thrifty]

I used to use a sifter made from a 10" x 5" piece of 1/2'hardware cloth fastened to a stick. I would push all the ashes to one side of the firebox with the steel shovel then use the sifter to lift the charcoal, give it a shake and toss to the other side. Now I burn on a low grate and the charcoal usually burns up. If not I add thin pieces of softwoods for a while until the charcoal is reduced. Keep in mind the experts say never use a grate in a wood stove.

 

[task]

'... is not going well...' - how, exactly?

I just mean it's tedious and time consuming since there's really no good way to pick out the embers and get most of the ash out of there without using tongs, scooting good embers out and etc.... Using this stove one full night produces so much ash and coals that I am going to have to clean it every morning, like a routine. Just want to get the routine down to something sensible.

We have the Pleasant Hearth HWS-224172MH. I actually think it may be too small for our little house, too.

 

[jetsam]

Use a poker or a rake to pile the big coals on one side, scoop the other side. Take the coals into the hole you just made, scoop the other side. Rake half the coals into the hole you just made, scoop the center. Don't obsess over every little coal; just leave the big ones.

If you want to recover the wasted coal, wait a few days and pour the ash can into a fry basket. Sift the ash out, and you can save the charcoal or throw it back in the stove.

 

[RetsooR]

Im getting ready to purchase a new stove. Most of the advice i have been getting is to not even get the ash pan.

 

[maple1]

Im getting ready to purchase a new stove. Most of the advice i have been getting is to not even get the ash pan.

I'm not sold on them either, but sounds like the OP is having issues that would be there pan or not?

To OP, would a big slotted spoon help? Or something like a big spaghetti server thing? Steel, of course. Push everything to one side, use the spoon thingie to pull the coals out & set to the open side, the scoop out the ashes left. Then spread out what is left & carry on. You likely won't get everything 100% separated & removed - but it doesn't hurt to dump some embers (as long as they are not hot, and kept in a sealed metal container if they are, until they aren't anymore), and it doesn't hurt to leave a bed of ash in there for the next burn. Embers themselves don't have a whole lot of heat value left in them anyway even though they still might be hot, so you wouldn't be losing much that way.

 

[tadmaz]

When there is just too much ash, I shovel mostly everything and I fill my ash bucket up. I'm losing some hot embers that would help when refueling, but oh well. Not like I'm removing ash constantly.

 

[begreen]

I used to use a sifter made from a 10" x 5" piece of 1/2'hardware cloth fastened to a stick. I would push all the ashes to one side of the firebox with the steel shovel then use the sifter to lift the charcoal, give it a shake and toss to the other side. Now I burn on a low grate and the charcoal usually burns up. If not I add thin pieces of softwoods for a while until the charcoal is reduced. Keep in mind the experts say never use a grate in a wood stove.

What stove is this? An auxilliary grate is not meant to be used in a woodstove.

 

[begreen]

When there is just too much ash, I shovel mostly everything and I fill my ash bucket up. I'm losing some hot embers that would help when refueling, but oh well. Not like I'm removing ash constantly.

I like to move the coals to one side, then shovel the other side. Then move the coals over to the shoveled side and shovel out the ash again on the non-coal side.

 

[twd000]

I use a lid-size garden rake to push the large coals to the back, then scoop ashes from the front with a steel shovel. I don't bother trying to sift out hot embers - there's not many BTUs left in them anyways. Sometimes in the spring I'll sift out some of the charcoal and put it in my garden because the extra carbon is good for the soil.

The only thing I miss about my Dutchwest stove was the great ash pan design - really made cleanouts a breeze. I wish more new stove manufacturers would include a grate and ash pan system like that

 

[task]

Ok, good suggestions in here. I always like to check because you never know who's got a clever idea that never occurred to ya'.

I guess I had so much ash and coals from a full day's burning that it was too much to "push to one side", as it was a deep bed. I'm going to get a slotted spoon/shovel thing to help with it and I think it will be good.

First weekend with it, first time wood burner...all around newbie on this.

My bigger problem now is getting long burns out of it while we're at work - that's a 10 hour gap.

Thanks for the replies, ya'll.

 

[jetsam]

Ok, good suggestions in here. I always like to check because you never know who's got a clever idea that never occurred to ya'.

I guess I had so much ash and coals from a full day's burning that it was too much to "push to one side", as it was a deep bed. I'm going to get a slotted spoon/shovel thing to help with it and I think it will be good.

First weekend with it, first time wood burner...all around newbie on this.

My bigger problem now is getting long burns out of it while we're at work - that's a 10 hour gap.

Thanks for the replies, ya'll.

If you want to empty out a stove full of hot coals, put a few sticks of softwood kindling on top and open up the air. A stove full of coals makes reasonably good heat.

If you have chronic problems with too many coals, you should consider a larger stove. Switching to softwood will give you less coals, but it won't fix your undersized stove problem.

 

[blades]

Your stove is rated for 1200sq ft so around a 2 cubic foot or less fire box . Listed as a small mobile home type stove. That said getting 10 hours out of it is really pushing the envelope more like 4 or so hours of good heat and then it is cooling down in the coaling stage by the end of 10 hours you likely can place your hand on the stove with out getting burned. Best you can do is load with the high density fuel like Oak , Honey or Black Locust, Blue Beech and others similar. All these produce a large coal bed which extends the time the stove is throwing usable heat although not like an active burn will. In the coaling stage the stove top might only be in the 200 F bracket.. Fuel in the15-20% moisture of course. Higher Moisture content than that will waste btus driving off the excess moisture to the tune losing apx 30% or more of the available btus per loading. Depending on your area there are some conifers( soft wood) that rival some of the best hardwoods( deciduous) btu wise. Although I can't guess on a length of time burn wise as I have no experience with them.. Marketing departments due tend to over state capabilities in this respect, but a stove or insert is a room heater, being able to spread the heat around is a bonus that some times works out well and other times is a challenge. All In all it will still reduce you consumption of btu's from a coventional heat source ( gas. oil, electric). which is the end goal, and in the case of a power outage still keep you from freezing.

 

[task]

Your stove is rated for 1200sq ft so around a 2 cubic foot or less fire box . Listed as a small mobile home type stove. That said getting 10 hours out of it is really pushing the envelope more like 4 or so hours of good heat and then it is cooling down in the coaling stage by the end of 10 hours you likely can place your hand on the stove with out getting burned. Best you can do is load with the high density fuel like Oak , Honey or Black Locust, Blue Beech and others similar. All these produce a large coal bed which extends the time the stove is throwing usable heat although not like an active burn will. In the coaling stage the stove top might only be in the 200 F bracket.. Fuel in the15-20% moisture of course. Higher Moisture content than that will waste btus driving off the excess moisture to the tune losing apx 30% or more of the available btus per loading. Depending on your area there are some conifers( soft wood) that rival some of the best hardwoods( deciduous) btu wise. Although I can't guess on a length of time burn wise as I have no experience with them.. Marketing departments due tend to over state capabilities in this respect, but a stove or insert is a room heater, being able to spread the heat around is a bonus that some times works out well and other times is a challenge. All In all it will still reduce you consumption of btu's from a coventional heat source ( gas. oil, electric). which is the end goal, and in the case of a power outage still keep you from freezing.

Thank you for the post. We have gobs of oak on our land. Almost all oak and cedar, can't find much else. We use the cedar for outside burn pit and oak for the stove. You're right, it's hard to get a long burn but I do appreciate the heat the coals provide, too. At least the house isn't straight up cold when we get home.

We have no conventional heat source other than mini split heat pumps, which don't work well under freezing temps. So we are purely depending on the stove, and radiant heaters plugged about the house.

Until I can get ahead and season our wood properly, I think we're going to buy some good seasoned wood next week. Most of my logs are round, as opposed to split wood. That's a problem too. I can load it really well with smaller pieces but the round logs waste the space and don't seem to get started burning as well.

 

[jetsam]

Until I can get ahead and season our wood properly, I think we're going to buy some good seasoned wood next week. Most of my logs are round, as opposed to split wood. That's a problem too. I can load it really well with smaller pieces but the round logs waste the space and don't seem to get started burning as well.

Buying good seasoned wood is generally not possible, no matter what the seller says.

Big splits and rounds will give you longer burn times than the same volume of small splits due to decreased surface area, but they also take longer to dry properly.

Oak takes about 3 years to dry if it's under cover around here.

I know cedar is more annoying to process, but it will also be ready for next year if you split, stack, and cover it now. So start processing cedar for next year and oak for 2-3 years out!

You could also look into building a solar kiln to get your oak dry faster. Lots of good info on this forum.

 

[maple1]

Don't depend on wood that you buy, being seasoned & ready to burn. You might get lucky - but it would be a rarity.

Are your mini-splits older? Newer ones these days can give good heat to well below the freezing point. We got a pair of Diakins installed just over a year ago. Now I am in a constant battle with myself over when to let the splits run, and when to make a fire. I have let them go, down to -15c outside, to try them, and they were still heating the place OK. Likely still more economically than anything else except wood. But having a decent supply of wood and good way to burn it, I have kind of settled on turning them off below -10c. Sometimes sooner, just depends on my mood & schedule.

 

[jetsam]

Don't depend on wood that you buy, being seasoned & ready to burn. You might get lucky - but it would be a rarity.

Are your mini-splits older? Newer ones these days can give good heat to well below the freezing point. We got a pair of Diakins installed just over a year ago. Now I am in a constant battle with myself over when to let the splits run, and when to make a fire. I have let them go, down to -15c outside, to try them, and they were still heating the place OK. Likely still more economically that anything else except wood. But having a decent supply of wood and good way to burn it, I have kind of settled on turning them off below -10c. Sometimes sooner, just depends on my mood & schedule.

They almost all have resistive strips in them now. The heat pump still doesn't work in cold weather, but the resistive heater kicks in to make heat. Running in this mode, it is no more efficient than a regular electric space heater (and arguably less, since the head is probably mounted high on an exterior wall, and the space heater can be located on the floor near an interior wall.)

 

[blacktail]

If you're leaving a small stove for 10 hours at a time, is there even enough coals in there to worry about when cleaning it?
On the plus side, cleaning ashes out when the stove is still warm can give you enough of a draft to suck the dust up the flue.
My insert is small and I found a stock pot that fits in the firebox. Move ash to one side, put pot in the empty side and then scoop ash into it. Keeps any mess in the stove.

 

[spudman99]

They almost all have resistive strips in them now. The heat pump still doesn't work in cold weather, but the resistive heater kicks in to make heat. Running in this mode, it is no more efficient than a regular electric space heater (and arguably less, since the head is probably mounted high on an exterior wall, and the space heater can be located on the floor near an interior wall.)

Not to derail, but the Mitsubishi units I am purchasing will heat down to 5deg F with the R410A, no heat strips. They make an add on package that will heat down to -15deg F. They run on 12v DC from an inverter off the compressor and are really efficient. This is for a 2019 model, no question the older units are less capable below freezing temperatures.

 

[maple1]

They almost all have resistive strips in them now. The heat pump still doesn't work in cold weather, but the resistive heater kicks in to make heat. Running in this mode, it is no more efficient than a regular electric space heater (and arguably less, since the head is probably mounted high on an exterior wall, and the space heater can be located on the floor near an interior wall.)

No. No strips in mine.

 

[task]

No heat strips in mine. We got the Pioneer 12,000 BTU model for the living/kitchen area, which is 16' x 22'. I do not believe the coolant level is correct. We misfired on that and hired a sketchy "tech" to charge the system and I've never trusted the result. We installed the unit new ourselves, ran the line set, electrical, all that, and just hired out the system charging part since I don't know anything about that.

So...I'm thinking that's why we can get almost no heat out of it when temperatures hit right at freezing. Above that, I'm not impressed even still.

 

[maple1]

No heat strips in mine. We got the Pioneer 12,000 BTU model for the living/kitchen area, which is 16' x 22'. I do not believe the coolant level is correct. We misfired on that and hired a sketchy "tech" to charge the system and I've never trusted the result. We installed the unit new ourselves, ran the line set, electrical, all that, and just hired out the system charging part since I don't know anything about that.

So...I'm thinking that's why we can get almost no heat out of it when temperatures hit right at freezing. Above that, I'm not impressed even still.

By the sounds of that I would likely get another reefer tech in to verify tightness & recharge.

How long did he spend at it?

When we had ours put in, they spent more time than I thought they would just on that part. I don't know much about the process, but just pulling vacuum and letting it sit to verify was, like, hours, I think. (Fuzzy memory, and I didn't keep a close watch, and they were doing other things at the same time). They also used some pretty expensive looking tools just for the connection work, torque wrench flaring gadget etc..

Have both of mine going right now, it's -6c outside, all kinds of heat, energy monitor says 1200w being used by entire house. There are differences in capabilities between models, though, of course.

 

[fire_man]

Im getting ready to purchase a new stove. Most of the advice i have been getting is to not even get the ash pan.

It completely depends on what stove you get if the ashpan is any good. On some stoves they work great, others are just a pain.