uninsulated liner

[crater22]

Well, this old man got screwed again. Just found out that my liner was NOT insulated at all. During some repairs on my chimney the sweep discovered that my liner had NO insulation at all. I have a e-mail and invoice from the installer stating that it was a Lifetime Fully Insulated Stainless Steel Liner. I even informed my insurance company and the V.A. for my loan application, that this is what I had.

Going to contact the installer, if he is still in business, and see what he has to say. Meanwhile, what are my problems using the liner the way it is? Other than loss of heat, is it dangerous ? This will be my fourth year using this stove as it is set up now. So I assume that it is not dangerous.

Other than removing the liner and re-installing what options do I have? Could I spend all day on the roof , cutting and throwing Rockwool down the chimney?

Thanks in advance for any recommendations and advice.

Rgds

 

[Mike.O]

You sure it's not the pre-insulated liner that has an additional liner around the insulation to protect it?

 

[crater22]

Trying to send some pictures. Not sure if this is going to work

 

[black smoke signals]

You’re correct you didn’t get what you paid for! How difficult will this liner be to pull out and install insulation wrap? Hope you find this installer.

 

[Ctwoodtick]

The danger would be if you had a chimney fire with uninsulated liner more heat would transfer to nearby combustible. While it’s worth looking into, I don’t suspect you have a reason to stop burning or put Rockwool around liner just based on no insulation.
That said, if it turns out you were lied to by installer, I’d be concerned they bs’d you with other necessities like making sure to properly clean masonry chimney before putting liner in. The pros on this forum can help you further with what to look for in dealing with your situation. If it’s not insulated, I’d be thinking about my budget for determining when I could have reinstalled with proper insulation.

 

[begreen]

There isn't room for an insulated liner there. DuraLiner pre-insulated might pass. It is 6 5/8" OD.

 

[weatherguy]

In that first photo it looks like there some loose insulation, maybe there was a miscommunication?

 

[crater22]

Thanks everybody for the help. Since this is installed in the interior of my house. i guess I can check into selling it and buying something else that uses a thinner liner, other than this 8 inch on this Buck. Any good recommendations on a insert that would heat a 1850 sg ft, open floor plan house.?

Regarding that little bit of insulation. that was used to help support the concrete that they used to hold the liner in place. It developed a hole in it, which required me to have it removed and a proper s,s. plate instaled. That is how this whole mess was discovered.

Thanks again guys.

 

[maple1]

I would be severely ticked.

Looks like in order to do insulated properly, the clay would need busted out. I have a feeling they realized that on installing, and rather than stopping for further discussion, they just installed what they did and got out.

 

[Mrpelletburner]

I am confused with the last photo.

Did they pour concrete around the SS liner or is that vermiculite based insulation?

 

[Highbeam]

See that hose clamp a couple feet down? Looks like they had to splice in another piece.

Lots of stoves are rated to heat 1850 sf that use a 6” flue. I would say most.

 

[crater22]

I am confused with the last photo.

Did they pour concrete around the SS liner or is that vermiculite based insulation?

They poured about a inch of concrete to hold the liner from moving. They must have packed some fiberglass insulation around the liner to support the wet cement.

 

[crater22]

See that hose clamp a couple feet down? Looks like they had to splice in another piece.

Lots of stoves are rated to heat 1850 sf that use a 6” flue. I would say most.

Yeah, i was not thinking when i posted that. Too early in the morning. Looking at a Buck 81 now.

 

[Sodbuster]

Another problem I see is that concrete they poured forms a bowl, and will fill with water, and eventually leak. Either more needs to be added to form a crown, or you need a properly sized storm collar.

 

[MAD MARK]

Another problem I see is that concrete they poured forms a bowl, and will fill with water, and eventually leak. Either more needs to be added to form a crown, or you need a properly sized storm collar.

Quoted from the OP

"concrete that they used to hold the liner in place. It developed a hole in it, which required me to have it removed and a proper s,s. plate instaled. That is how this whole mess was discovered."

 

[Sodbuster]

Quoted from the OP

"concrete that they used to hold the liner in place. It developed a hole in it, which required me to have it removed and a proper s,s. plate instaled. That is how this whole mess was discovered."

I didn't figure it would take long to develop a hole.

 

[crater22]

You sure it's not the pre-insulated liner that has an additional liner around the insulation to protect it?

You know, I never thought of that.
with the additional piece that they used to extend the liner, it is impossible to tell. I am still trying to locate this guy.

Thanks for that idea.

 

[Mrpelletburner]

OP...

I understand that you paid for an insulated SS liner install and just ended up with the liner.

But without the liner insulated, how does your stove draft? Does the liner need to be insulated?

 

[bholler]

OP...

I understand that you paid for an insulated SS liner install and just ended up with the liner.

But without the liner insulated, how does your stove draft? Does the liner need to be insulated?

To meet code and be a safe install yes almost certainly. Very few chimneys have the required clearances so insulation is almost always required

 

[crater22]

There isn't room for an insulated liner there. DuraLiner pre-insulated might pass. It is 6 5/8" OD.

Here is a crazy idea that I have. Keep in mind that I have a hard time trying to even light a fire, so I know not of which I speak. The current company that I am using, claimed to have a product that they spray down the chimney and it expands into insulation. Kind of like the stuff you use to fill in drafts around the house. Would it be possible, or even a good idea, to stuff Rockwool down along the liner as far as possible, to form kind of a shelf to support the foam until it hardness. Guess kind of like what they did with the cement that was orginally used to support the liner at the top. Again, I admit to being a dummy and that is why I come to this forum. I really appreciate the help.

Thanks again.

 

[bholler]

Here is a crazy idea that I have. Keep in mind that I have a hard time trying to even light a fire, so I know not of which I speak. The current company that I am using, claimed to have a product that they spray down the chimney and it expands into insulation. Kind of like the stuff you use to fill in drafts around the house. Would it be possible, or even a good idea, to stuff Rockwool down along the liner as far as possible, to form kind of a shelf to support the foam until it hardness. Guess kind of like what they did with the cement that was orginally used to support the liner at the top. Again, I admit to being a dummy and that is why I come to this forum. I really appreciate the help.

Thanks again.

Cerfractory foam is not designed or listed for this application. There is just not enough room there to fit the required amount of insulation. The clay tiles need removed.

 

[begreen]

Here is a crazy idea that I have. Keep in mind that I have a hard time trying to even light a fire, so I know not of which I speak. The current company that I am using, claimed to have a product that they spray down the chimney and it expands into insulation. Kind of like the stuff you use to fill in drafts around the house. Would it be possible, or even a good idea, to stuff Rockwool down along the liner as far as possible, to form kind of a shelf to support the foam until it hardness. Guess kind of like what they did with the cement that was orginally used to support the liner at the top. Again, I admit to being a dummy and that is why I come to this forum. I really appreciate the help.

Thanks again.

There are systems like Aherns that use a process to create a cast-in-place liner, but it is not foam based. They would not use your existing liner. This system is not inexpensive. One could also pour in place a cement/vermiculite mix, but the problem is that the liner needs to be centered in order to ensure that the liner is fully and equally surrounded by the insulating cement and not touching the chimney. Hard to do without spacers on the liner.

 

[bholler]

There are systems like Aherns that use a process to create a cast-in-place liner, but it is not foam based. They would not use your existing liner. This system is not inexpensive. One could also pour in place a cement/vermiculite mix, but the problem is that the liner needs to be centered in order to ensure that the liner is fully and equally surrounded by the insulating cement and not touching the chimney. Hard to do without spacers on the liner.

There is also not enough room for the required 1" of pour in insulation required

 

[Highbeam]

There is also not enough room for the required 1" of pour in insulation required

This is an odd 8” liner for an insert. One of the extremely rare inserts that use 8”. Would a 6” insulated liner fit? Would of course require switching to a 6” stove but with just 1850 sf, there are lots of options.

 

[bholler]

Ahh I just assumed that was a 6" in an 8x8. If that's an 8" it has to be in a 12x12 so there is room. Good catch highbeam