Upland 17 wood stove, new member, something looks wrong, here is my detailed question

[Dicky]

Something looks wrong with my little used and recently installed 30 year old (or older) Upland 17 wood stove and here is my detailed question.

The discussion about the heat baffle system and the drawing in page 3 of the manual below:

https://www.hearth.com/images/uploads/upland17manual.pdf

suggests there should be no space, and actually the drawing shows no space, between the flue opening, the firebox, and the bottom of the smoke baffle/shelf. But my stove has a space of about ½ to ¾ inch?? See the attached photo looking in from the open door.


The curved shape at the rear of the smoke baffle/shelf matches the shape at the back of the stove at the flue outlet and suggests that you do not want to have this space. It looks like the smoke baffle/shelf should be lower and further back to eliminate the space. This would force all of the smoke and hot exhaust gases to take the long path (as in the drawing) to the flue outlet. Instead, with my stove a lot of the smoke and hot exhaust gas can flow directly from the fire box and into the flue pipe and up the chimney.


But there is not any other way the current shelf could be installed to eliminate the space.
I wonder if I may have an incorrect smoke baffle/shelf part in
my stove?

 

[Dicky]

Something looks wrong with smoke shelf configuration and installation in my little used and recently installed 30 year old (or older) Upland 17 wood stove and here is my detailed question.

[ATTACH147100[/ATTACH]
The discussion about the heat baffle system and the drawing in page 3 of the manual below:

https://www.hearth.com/images/uploads/upland17manual.pdf

suggests there should be no space, and actually the drawing shows no space, between the flue opening, the firebox, and the bottom of the smoke baffle/shelf. But my stove has a space of about ½ to ¾ inch?? See the attached photo looking in from the open door.


The curved shape at the rear of the smoke baffle/shelf matches the shape at the back of the stove at the flue outlet and suggests that you do not want to have this space. It looks like the smoke baffle/shelf should be lower and further back to eliminate the space. This would force all of the smoke and hot exhaust gases to take the long path (as in the drawing) to the flue outlet. Instead, with my stove a lot of the smoke and hot exhaust gas can flow directly from the fire box and into the flue pipe and up the chimney.


But there is not any other way the current shelf could be installed to eliminate the space. I wonder if I may have an incorrect smoke baffle/shelf part in my stove.


Page 31 of this Upland Dealers manual makes the same points:

http://www.nutec-castings.com/files/49581279.pdf


Can anyone look at their own Upland 17 wood stove, preferably in operation, and provide an answer to this question.


Private messages welcome.


I have a Jotul 602 at a lakeside camp which I believe the Upland 17 imitates and I will look at the Jotul this weekend to see how its smoke shelf is configured.

 

[mellow]

Calling @webbie for Upland help.

 

[DAKSY]

Looks to me like the heat baffle is installed incorrectly. It should fit under the curved feature of the back panel.
It won't work correctly if it isn't below the flue opening. It may be that it's distorted from the harsh enviroment within the burning chamber, but I don't think it's where it should be.
Could the back panel have dropped out of it's position?

 

[Dicky]

Looks to me like the heat baffle is installed incorrectly. It should fit under the curved feature of the back panel.
It won't work correctly if it isn't below the flue opening. It may be that it's distorted from the harsh enviroment within the burning chamber, but I don't think it's where it should be.
Could the back panel have dropped out of it's position?

I too think that it will not work correctly that way. But I have removed it and the side plates and nothing seems amiss, there is no distortion. Not much use on this stove. I bought it used years ago as it was a good deal [or so I thought] and did not notice the problem at the time. All I can think is that someone put in the wrong part. For now I have squeezed some folded up yellow fibreglass insulation into the opening to block it. Seems to be working for now. I'll keep an eye on it as the heat may be too much for it over time. But at least most of the smoke seems to be going the right way now.
Thnx for your input.
Plse share any ideas or solutions you may have. Without a known good working part from an identical stove for comparison, I do not know how to determine if it is the wrong part. The current smoke baffle/shelf has no P/N marking on it. And as far as I know it's out of manufacture w no spares available.
Maybe the seller knew about the problem and just passed it on to me. I hate to think people can be so devious and dishonest but of course I know many are.
You cannot be too careful.
Dicky

 

[Dicky]

Calling @webbie for Upland help.

Mellow
What does "Calling @@webbie for Upland help." mean?

 

[begreen]

Looks like your Upland is ridin' high in the saddle.

The baffle is not sitting correctly. The rear of the baffle should sit in that saddle so that flames can not go directly out the flue in the back.

webbie, started hearth.com and owned Upland at one point.

 

[Dicky]

webbie, started hearth.com and owned Upland at one point.

The baffle is not sitting correctly. The rear of the baffle should sit in that saddle so that flames can not go directly out the flue in the back.

How can I contact "webbie"? If he owned Upland maybe he can shed some light on what the problem is. Nothing appears broken or warped and there is no other way to install the smoke baffle that I can see. I suspect the current baffle is perhaps not the correct part, but how can I tell if this is so or not? What else could be wrong?
Dicky

 

[begreen]

Start a conversation by clicking on his handle here ->webbie , then click on start a conversation.

 

[webbie]

Here is mine from the rear - check if yours looks like that and has the cast iron closing up that bottom part of the flue collar.

 

[webbie]

Calling @webbie for Upland help.

Getting kinda slow in my old age - sorry. Too dang busy with drones......

 

[begreen]

If the intent is to use this stove long term I would replace the baffle. Woodmans still sells them.
(broken link removed)

 

[jjs777_fzr]

Your photo is shown above - where I circled the upper baffle not sitting down on the side stub.


A photo showing my baffle and resting on the side stub.


And to ensure you have your side baffles installed correctly - be sure they are oriented as I have described in photo above - marking the Front and Rear. I think yours looked to be installed correctly but can't hurt to confirm.



My stove - showing the rear where it shows no gap between upper baffle and rear wall of stove.


I hope this helps. I bet if you play around with it...it will end up seating real well. The bad looking side baffle I showed above I actually just replaced today - but in the past it was frustrating thinking I couldn't get the rear gap closed...but a little tweaking here and there it eventually fits like a glove.

And if you care - the original creator of these Upland stoves liked the #7's....so they are in each model, #17,#27,#107,#207.
Maybe that's why I like them so much haha.
My #17 I started up this a.m. when it was just 8F and got my basement from 48F to 60F (need to work down there today).

-John

 

[Dicky]

View attachment 150963

Your photo is shown above - where I circled the upper baffle not sitting down on the side stub.

View attachment 150964
A photo showing my baffle and resting on the side stub.

View attachment 150965
And to ensure you have your side baffles installed correctly - be sure they are oriented as I have described in photo above - marking the Front and Rear. I think yours looked to be installed correctly but can't hurt to confirm.

View attachment 150966

My stove - showing the rear where it shows no gap between upper baffle and rear wall of stove.


I hope this helps. I bet if you play around with it...it will end up seating real well. The bad looking side baffle I showed above I actually just replaced today - but in the past it was frustrating thinking I couldn't get the rear gap closed...but a little tweaking here and there it eventually fits like a glove.

And if you care - the original creator of these Upland stoves liked the #7's....so they are in each model, #17,#27,#107,#207.
Maybe that's why I like them so much haha.
My #17 I started up this a.m. when it was just 8F and got my basement from 48F to 60F (need to work down there today).

-John

John
You are absolutely right. The key to getting the upper/smoke shelf baffle lined up correctly was to play around and fiddle with it. I ended up doing this about 3 weeks ago after much frustration. I was near giving up and just living with the fibreglas insulation I had cut and carefully fit as tightly as I could into the opening (not that satisfactory), when photos I requested from a potential seller of an Upland 17 in excellent condition arrived and pointed the way and suggested to me that I should keep trying. So by lifting the baffle in front wiggling it around and playing with the rear angle it finally dropped into place. I have to think that this not the best design as it is too easy to think you have done all you could when it's still not installed correctly. Which is why I was thinking I had the wrong part which would never fit right. Not anywhere near just sliding into the correct position due to a good design configuration as it should do. And no written directions anywhere that I could find for how to install and what to look for, and believe me I looked. The attached 4 page manual is useless in this regard, same with the attached 48 page dealer Handbook I found online.
Anyway thank you for the time and effort you took to help me. Well done. I now feel more confident about what I finally did, that I was not an idiot, and that the solution was to be discovered by, as you said above, "I bet if you play around with it...it will end up seating real well ....a little tweaking here and there it eventually fits like a glove."
Again, I think with a good design, it should not be possible to install the upper baffle incorrectly. fiddling should not be required, it should just drop into place. And a manual with decent instructions should have been written.
This is my opinion as an experienced systems engineer with I think a good feel for mechanical things.
BTW, my side plates are completely symetrical, meaning same shape front and rear. Seems like there are many different variations and different parts out there associated with this stove. For example look at the rear view picture above from 'webbie' a major change to the rear panel design Why was that ever done or necessary??

Thanks again
Richard
[email protected]

 

[webbie]

This is my opinion as an experienced systems engineer with I think a good feel for mechanical things.
BTW, my side plates are completely symetrical, meaning same shape front and rear. Seems like there are many different variations and different parts out there associated with this stove. For example look at the rear view picture above from 'webbie' a major change to the rear panel design Why was that ever done or necessary??

Thanks again
Richard
[email protected]

My guess is that those changes may have related to the stove they copied from...that is, the Upland 17 (and many other stoves of the sort) were copies of the Jotul 602, which had a 4.7" (actually, metric) flue collar. I think the first Upland #17's (before my time!) may have had 5" flue collars, but 5" pipe is harder to find and most all insulated chimneys in the USA are 6" or larger. Hence, the folks at Upland probably enlarged the flue collar and therefore had to block up some of the remaining opening.

Ancient history at this point.

The inside side panels that I saw were never symmetrical...they were also copies of Jotul panels. However, there is no real reason for the exact designs of these - they could be bigger, more square, etc. as all they do is keep the logs from resting directly against the exterior castings. This way they take the bigger part of the abuse and wear out before the stove side panels do.

The Jotul 602 is the largest selling woodstove model in history - I think about 1.1 million+ have been sold, which is a lot for a woodstove.

 

[begreen]

The Jotul 602 baffle takes a little fussing to get it seated perfectly. I had it wrong my first try but with some persistence got it right.

 

[jjs777_fzr]

And now just get some Canawick or other blocks to burn in these short length stoves and you have a winner...nice burn.