Vermont Castings Blowtorch Sound on Reload
- Thread starter Halliewest
- Start date
-
Active since 1995, Hearth.com is THE place on the internet for free information and advice about wood stoves, pellet stoves and other energy saving equipment.
We strive to provide opinions, articles, discussions and history related to Hearth Products and in a more general sense, energy issues.
We promote the EFFICIENT, RESPONSIBLE, CLEAN and SAFE use of all fuels, whether renewable or fossil.
I have the dauntless. It does sound like a blowtorch at times. If you reach behind it, and put your hand over the air intake at the bottom, the noise stops. So it’s not a chimney fire or overly active catalytic burner, it’s just a noisy intake. It does settle down once that internal dual metal door starts working as advertised. Not a fan of the dauntless, but it’s a normal sound. You’ll hear it, to some degree, as the adjustment door opens and closes too.
Hi. We have the Dauntless and have been dealing with same issues. Taked to dealer several times which was no help. We have an outdoor air intake pipe near back of stove because our house is so tight. This morning I covered part of the air-intake on the stove and it helped a little. We bought this stove to load up and go to bed. So far that has not happened because it makes us so nervous. Very frustrating.If anyone has a Vermont Castings newer stove, I would love to get an educated answer.
I bought a Vermont Castings Dauntless, and so far, it’s been anything but. The one remaining problem I’m having, which no one seems to be able to answer, is that right after reload, no matter the temp, as soon as I close the bypass, it sounds very much like a blow torch.
I am trying to figure out why this happens. Is it gases building in the firebox, is it the catalytic combustor? Which if so, would seem odd that would kick in at a low temp, (low temp only because I tested it to see if it would happen at lower temperature.)
The reason I’m struggling with this is…in the manual, it says if it sounds like a blowtorch, it’s over firing and can cause loss of life. Seriously? Yet, Vermont Castings customer support is nonexistent, and anyone I’ve spoke to in the industry says, ‘I’m sure it’s fine’, without having a clue. I really need an answer so I can burn without worrying I’m doing something wrong. Any help is greatly appreciated. I’m really hopeful someone will have a solid answer.
There are plenty of good answers in this thread. I feel your pain, it is definitely nerve-racking, and makes it impossible to use the stove in a normal way.
I have a defiant Flexburn and take GREAT comfort that Halliewest is experiencing that chimney fire sounding WHOOSH.
Mine scares me to death, even though I now know that the sound is "a thing," I am still never 100% comfortable when I lay my head on a pillow.
The first time I heard it, I called the fireplace shop and they told me that I'm probably having a chimney fire. They are VC dealers and even they didn't know about the blowtorch afterburn woosh noise!
Thanks to all that replied, and thanks Halliewest for singing out. I'm glad I'm not the only one! :D
Mine scares me to death, even though I now know that the sound is "a thing," I am still never 100% comfortable when I lay my head on a pillow.
The first time I heard it, I called the fireplace shop and they told me that I'm probably having a chimney fire. They are VC dealers and even they didn't know about the blowtorch afterburn woosh noise!
Thanks to all that replied, and thanks Halliewest for singing out. I'm glad I'm not the only one! :D
Let me assure you, I still feel the same also. I wonder if the fear of that sound will ever go away, but I hope after all these responses, eventually I’ll have some peace with it. 😊 Cheers to anxiety free burning.
WillVan
New Member
Great info here, thanks contributors!! Yes, this roar can be disconcerting, and I still can't make sense of it. Current manual says it's a problem, but with the OLDER catalytic stoves this was a GOOD sign that the gases were being burned by the catalytic converter. So when I notice a slight burner noise when closing the damper, regard that as a good burn.
However, the occasional 'blow-torch' noises are still concerning, especially if they go on for more than a few minutes. It's burning of gases given off in certain stage of woodburning, right? If we think that this condition is okay as long as it is moderate, how do we control that? We think that some can be resolved simply by filling the stove less--trying for a perfect burn on a maximum load of wood will always be more challenging.
--with our previous VC stoves, we simply ran it "by the numbers"--stovetop thermometer up to about 500 degrees, then closed the damper. Left the thermostat wide open for a few minutes, then adjusted down, but no less than midway. The older catalytic Intrepids claimed that the cat would work fine over 350 degrees, but we usually got the temp up closer to 500 before engaging the cat. With the new Intrepid with cat, we find we need to get the stovetop temp up to 550 to 600 first--but some of this is because of the insufficient draft problems we are experiencing. And the dilemma here is that when the stovetop thermometer is there, the thermometer probe for the cat is still not up to the "engagement temp". So often when first firing, we keep the air control turned down to provide more time for the heat in firebox to transfer to the cat area.
--I'd like to know more about adding a 3rd thermometer. I use one on the center rear of top griddle and have the one with probe going inside that is part of the catalyst kit. Exactly where would another one be useful? Have another magnetic thermometer which could go on the flue pipe where it exits the exhaust collar. Good place? Another probe somewhere?
--and specifically, how do we interpret or compare the thermometer readings from a 3rd thermometer?
Here is when I notice the sound and what happens on my Intrepid Flexburn. I notice the sound when I close the damper and I have a log in front of where the smoke/gasses head to the cat. If I leave the wood there my cat will be reading 1400+ while stove top might only be reading 400 or so. Once the damper is closed basically it is sucking the flame up and out of the exhaust. I do not put any wood in front of where it exhausts to the cat. A few times this past burning season a log has fallen down or my wife put one there and the blowtorch sound was very audible. I'd check CAT temps and they nearly at the too hot mark and the stovepipe would be pinging even after burning for hours. Personally I don't see ever filling this stove up to the brim and just leaving it. I don't think that I could trust it to not run away. Typically I run 3-4 splits in mine and that's it. One left to right up near the glass, and 2 front to back on the outer corners of the stove. This gives me horrible burn times, but I feel like I can at least control the stove a little better this way.
I have a new dauntless too, and have had this happen a couple times (though I've only burned it for about a week since the weather is getting warmer). The first time it happened, it sounded like a jet plane and really startled me. It lasted for a solid 15 minutes. It then didn't happen again for a few more burns... before happening again but lasting a shorter amount of time. I just chalked it up to normal usage but have no proof of that. I am also having a large problem with chemical fumes, and even after a week, it's not going away. The Dauntless was the largest stove that fit in the space so I didn't have other options. Frustrating for sure.
In the same frustrating situation.
We put a piece of soapstone about an inch away from the air intake at back of stove to slow up the air. Helped a little.
Then we read somewhere on Hearth.com to put the coals up the back. My dealer told me to always leave those vents at the bottom in the back clear. Well, as has been the case continuously, the dealer is wrong!
Our method that seems to be better the the fear we have had is:
Get the stove up to a good coal base.
Shove all the coals all the way back completely blocking those vents and as far up the back as we can put them.
At our wood up the back and also in front of that towards glass. Then Cris-cross on top of that, but never all the way to top.
Let that load burn til large coal base achieved.
Then add three or four splits. Once going a bit we turn down air control, the damper we always close right after loading.
Depending on what time it is at night, we may add a log to keep coal base up and try to time it so that when we go to bed the logs we have added are at least starting to combust.
So at this point there is a good sized coal base with that log or two on top and we then close it down at the air control six “notches”.
This keeps going all night and somehow keeps the house warm, my last stove I would always load with wood at end of night and close, but this one seems to be best building up coals and that’s the heat that lasts til morning.
It has been a terribly frustrating and exhausting time dealing with the fear this stove has brought into our lives, but at least it seems a little controllable now.
And our glass, it goes dark, it clears in some places, but can’t figure out the cure for that problem.
Be safe, that inferno/blowtorch sound is not right, there is a sound close to it that is just the wood burning, but when you put your ear to the back of the stove and it’s hollering from there, take cation. It’s dangerous and gets crazy hot. Blocking those vents inside the stove has helped us. Maybe will help you.
We put a piece of soapstone about an inch away from the air intake at back of stove to slow up the air. Helped a little.
Then we read somewhere on Hearth.com to put the coals up the back. My dealer told me to always leave those vents at the bottom in the back clear. Well, as has been the case continuously, the dealer is wrong!
Our method that seems to be better the the fear we have had is:
Get the stove up to a good coal base.
Shove all the coals all the way back completely blocking those vents and as far up the back as we can put them.
At our wood up the back and also in front of that towards glass. Then Cris-cross on top of that, but never all the way to top.
Let that load burn til large coal base achieved.
Then add three or four splits. Once going a bit we turn down air control, the damper we always close right after loading.
Depending on what time it is at night, we may add a log to keep coal base up and try to time it so that when we go to bed the logs we have added are at least starting to combust.
So at this point there is a good sized coal base with that log or two on top and we then close it down at the air control six “notches”.
This keeps going all night and somehow keeps the house warm, my last stove I would always load with wood at end of night and close, but this one seems to be best building up coals and that’s the heat that lasts til morning.
It has been a terribly frustrating and exhausting time dealing with the fear this stove has brought into our lives, but at least it seems a little controllable now.
And our glass, it goes dark, it clears in some places, but can’t figure out the cure for that problem.
Be safe, that inferno/blowtorch sound is not right, there is a sound close to it that is just the wood burning, but when you put your ear to the back of the stove and it’s hollering from there, take cation. It’s dangerous and gets crazy hot. Blocking those vents inside the stove has helped us. Maybe will help you.
I recently posted links to both items here
Encore 2040 cat c overheat
I tightened door latch, which didn’t seem very loose but now tight as will go. Been goin good for probably 7-8 decent size fires. Haven’t had a lot of cold weather lately. Suppose to turn cold tomoro so plan to run it pretty hard consistently n hope for same results. It still goes to between...
www.hearth.com
I am so glad to find your post. I just purchased the VC Dauntless Flex Burn in fall of 22 and have over the last 2 months oriented myself to its operation, re-reading manual and checking with supplier as I am quite cautious. It is bigger than my prior wood stove and more intimidating at this point. I have the exact same issues and could not have said it better than your above post - after having bed of coals and continuous use over three days of no power and very cold temps outdoors, I loaded it up hoping I would get more than three hours of good heat, to sleep through the night. Within 20 minutes (cat in zone, and around 400 degrees (obviously damper closed) the fire box lit up like a fireworks show and did the blow torch action. This repeated 3-4 times with 5 minute break in between blow torch events. I closed it down and hoped like crazy for the power to come back on and could use my other source of heat. It makes me very nervous, the manual says it is dangerous but doesn't say anything to help solve the problem. Manual again says if sounds like blow torch its over firing and can cause loss of life. Now what - going. have read all material i can get my hands on - and still not comfortable about how to prevent it or have it not happen, I wanted a simple solution to my power issues and not looking for anxiety - thank you for helping me figure this out. The responses to me surround your main issue and not focused enough for me - I will re read and take notes this time I guess.If anyone has a Vermont Castings newer stove, I would love to get an educated answer.
I bought a Vermont Castings Dauntless, and so far, it’s been anything but. The one remaining problem I’m having, which no one seems to be able to answer, is that right after reload, no matter the temp, as soon as I close the bypass, it sounds very much like a blow torch.
I am trying to figure out why this happens. Is it gases building in the firebox, is it the catalytic combustor? Which if so, would seem odd that would kick in at a low temp, (low temp only because I tested it to see if it would happen at lower temperature.)
The reason I’m struggling with this is…in the manual, it says if it sounds like a blowtorch, it’s over firing and can cause loss of life. Seriously? Yet, Vermont Castings customer support is nonexistent, and anyone I’ve spoke to in the industry says, ‘I’m sure it’s fine’, without having a clue. I really need an answer so I can burn without worrying I’m doing something wrong. Any help is greatly appreciated. I’m really hopeful someone will have a solid answer.
To me, This is not normal and if it is, I made a huge mistake in purchasing this - It appeared that it was going to explode. During a power outage in zero degree weather. Shut it down. Have closed damper many times, this never happened before -
It can be dangerous if the cat goes above 1400f or so. Dangerous being may damage the cat. The "wosh" sound is the air going through the combuster which acts like a venturi on a carburetor. More so the hotter you have the flue typically. It's all that draft being squeezed through that combuster rather than the damper which has a bigger opening. Usually that draft will settle down through the combuster after a few minutes. What can exacerbate that "wosh" is having wood placed directly against the conbuster and/or its opening. It is super important to have a good coalbed in the stove but all of it doesn't have to be crammed against the combuster opening. If it takes all the coals to get a few inches up against the combuster then probably not enough coal base in the stove.
Hi, I also am glad to have found this forum. I have posted in a few areas about the troubles I have had with my dauntless flexburn. I really tried everything and begged my dealer to help me (which they didn’t).
Recently when I posted to this forum I finally felt I had something working when I tried what someone had posted “to really stack your coals up the back. Doing this allowed the combustion to happen, the propane sound was light and only lasted for maybe two to three minutes (unlike the fertilizer sound of the combustion engine part of the stove going nuts and threatening to overheat the back of the stove. BUT, it had been about two weeks of doing this (stacking coals high up the back and to note, yes I had a three inch coal base still in the rest of stove) when I noticed the stove slowing down. So I cleaned stove, stove had been cleaned previously at beginning of season(October) and this is the inside engine clean just to be clear. I found a lot of ashes and assume this problem due to having coals up the back. So now I am back to keeping my wood a little ways from combustion entrance, coals pushed near but not up the back wall, wood slightly spread so air moves around and not totally crisscrossed. And the result is I still get the damn problems, I still get black glass, and I still have no help from dealer or VC.
Some responses here make me wonder if my stove is missing something.
My tactic to keep house warm is to get up early and create a great coal base. I’m in and out of house during the three hour process of getting up to good coal base, add two splits in middle of stove, leave damper open for about a minute, close damper, listen to make sure things don’t get out of control, if sound gets louder and it’s been more than three minutes (yes I have tested how long it goes out of control, twenty five minutes Is the longest I have ever let that out of control sound last and I did that because everyone kept telling me it was normal! I’ll never do that again! Anyways, if not stopping being out of control I go to my second damper I installed in the pipe and close that down. I stay with the stove til it calms down and then I can open this damper about three quarters. I then close the air intake control all the way closed. This keeps my house safe, but not as warm. Finally after all this I can go to work
And thankfully I have a dog door and my dog can get out if anything did happen.
I really wish BC would help with this situation. I needed a new stove, my last one was a ermine castings and I loved it. I really think this stove has potential to run right but something is wrong, and I have tried everything.
Good luck!
Recently when I posted to this forum I finally felt I had something working when I tried what someone had posted “to really stack your coals up the back. Doing this allowed the combustion to happen, the propane sound was light and only lasted for maybe two to three minutes (unlike the fertilizer sound of the combustion engine part of the stove going nuts and threatening to overheat the back of the stove. BUT, it had been about two weeks of doing this (stacking coals high up the back and to note, yes I had a three inch coal base still in the rest of stove) when I noticed the stove slowing down. So I cleaned stove, stove had been cleaned previously at beginning of season(October) and this is the inside engine clean just to be clear. I found a lot of ashes and assume this problem due to having coals up the back. So now I am back to keeping my wood a little ways from combustion entrance, coals pushed near but not up the back wall, wood slightly spread so air moves around and not totally crisscrossed. And the result is I still get the damn problems, I still get black glass, and I still have no help from dealer or VC.
Some responses here make me wonder if my stove is missing something.
My tactic to keep house warm is to get up early and create a great coal base. I’m in and out of house during the three hour process of getting up to good coal base, add two splits in middle of stove, leave damper open for about a minute, close damper, listen to make sure things don’t get out of control, if sound gets louder and it’s been more than three minutes (yes I have tested how long it goes out of control, twenty five minutes Is the longest I have ever let that out of control sound last and I did that because everyone kept telling me it was normal! I’ll never do that again! Anyways, if not stopping being out of control I go to my second damper I installed in the pipe and close that down. I stay with the stove til it calms down and then I can open this damper about three quarters. I then close the air intake control all the way closed. This keeps my house safe, but not as warm. Finally after all this I can go to work
And thankfully I have a dog door and my dog can get out if anything did happen. I really wish BC would help with this situation. I needed a new stove, my last one was a ermine castings and I loved it. I really think this stove has potential to run right but something is wrong, and I have tried everything.
Good luck!
Not sure if there is a draft issue here or not (too much maybe) but regardless of that VC stoves do not run well with the primary all the way closed. Also the size, MC, and species of wood an play into this. But getting back to the draft, if it's more than 0.065 (in the installation manual) it may be too much for the design of the stove (according to VC) and yes a damper may need to be employed to temper it. Also wood can be too small and/or too dry where be it wood off gass to much at one. IMO theses are not overnight stoves whereby you can after 8 hours throw wood back in and go. This no matter much you try and close it downtown extend the burn time. The glass on these stoves will not stay clean no matter what. My dealer told me not to expect the glass to stay "clean" no matter how it's run. He told me this before I bought it. However this is the Inrepid not the Dauntless. Trying to "simmer" these stoves will blacken the glass even more quickly. To keep the glass even semi-clean for a few days they need to be run fairly hot.Hi, I also am glad to have found this forum. I have posted in a few areas about the troubles I have had with my dauntless flexburn. I really tried everything and begged my dealer to help me (which they didn’t).
Recently when I posted to this forum I finally felt I had something working when I tried what someone had posted “to really stack your coals up the back. Doing this allowed the combustion to happen, the propane sound was light and only lasted for maybe two to three minutes (unlike the fertilizer sound of the combustion engine part of the stove going nuts and threatening to overheat the back of the stove. BUT, it had been about two weeks of doing this (stacking coals high up the back and to note, yes I had a three inch coal base still in the rest of stove) when I noticed the stove slowing down. So I cleaned stove, stove had been cleaned previously at beginning of season(October) and this is the inside engine clean just to be clear. I found a lot of ashes and assume this problem due to having coals up the back. So now I am back to keeping my wood a little ways from combustion entrance, coals pushed near but not up the back wall, wood slightly spread so air moves around and not totally crisscrossed. And the result is I still get the damn problems, I still get black glass, and I still have no help from dealer or VC.
Some responses here make me wonder if my stove is missing something.
My tactic to keep house warm is to get up early and create a great coal base. I’m in and out of house during the three hour process of getting up to good coal base, add two splits in middle of stove, leave damper open for about a minute, close damper, listen to make sure things don’t get out of control, if sound gets louder and it’s been more than three minutes (yes I have tested how long it goes out of control, twenty five minutes Is the longest I have ever let that out of control sound last and I did that because everyone kept telling me it was normal! I’ll never do that again! Anyways, if not stopping being out of control I go to my second damper I installed in the pipe and close that down. I stay with the stove til it calms down and then I can open this damper about three quarters. I then close the air intake control all the way closed. This keeps my house safe, but not as warm. Finally after all this I can go to work
I really wish BC would help with this situation. I needed a new stove, my last one was a ermine castings and I loved it. I really think this stove has potential to run right but something is wrong, and I have tried everything.
Good luck!
Thanks for your time responding. The second damper I put in on my vent pipe was installed when I was told I may have too much draft (I burned my previous Vermont castings for twenty years and never had a too strong draft) it helps a little but not really. It does give me the ability to really close stove but sometimes doesn’t stop the combustion in back of stove. And my wood is seasoned and stored dry with air circulation around it. Moisture meter average ready is 16, so it’s not the wood. I really wish I had not purchased this stove, the stress has taken a toll on me!
If the dealer would have come and examined stove maybe they would have found something while talking to the Vermont castings tech, but they never came , even though I asked and asked. They started just hanging up on me.
Thank you again, it seems on this forum ideas get thrown around and that’s helpful, but haven’t yet been able to fix the problem.
I hope no one looses their house or life because of this issue!
On my 3rd season with the dauntless and what ive found is that if i dont hear this sound...even if it is very slight, there is tons of smoke coming out of my chimney.if a log falls in and blocks the holes at the bottom so you have to adjust things inside the fire box.. i dont have the combuster in, i tried and could not control things with it installed. i had some scary flue temps(1000) and my STT was only 350ish. and also the stupid thermometer that VC includes with the combuster does suck so the Auber should be on the list for anyone making the mistake and getting this stove.
I just bought the Dauntless, and have had nothing but problems. I have that sound as well. Once I add wood, it starts. You can see the flames getting sucked into the back. My glass gets black as well. Had a small explosion in the stove when turning the heat down. I want to return it.
Most likely you had a back puff. This happens when you turn the air down too quickly and don't have a good enough draft.
Since I got a digital cat thermometer I no longer fear the blowtorch sound. Usually I hear it for a minute or two and it goes away. I've never had that sound make my cat temp go above 1400 so its all good.
If you are having issues i'd say hop on the 2022/2023 owner thread and tell us whats going on. I run my stove way better from the advice on that thread.
Just wondering if anyone burning without a cat has measured with a digital probe while the blowtorch sound is happening. I burn without a cat, but no probe. Like newguyjoe, if I hear the blowtorch sound, I get little to no smoke, depending on the intensity of the sound. I'm just wondering if we are over firing in the combustion chamber without a cat, even though STT don't indicate any issues. Thoughts?
I have not, but if I don't have that torch sound, I have tons of smoke coming out the chimney. I cannot get a straight answer from the dealer or VC.
While I dont believe this to be 100% true, here is a direct quote from my manual.
"Dry wood burns readily with a good chimney draft. But with modern stoves, wood can be too dry and too volatile. Smoke and combustible gases can ‘gas out’ from the wood quickly and densely enough to overload the combustion system. If you hear a rumbling or roaring noise (like a propane torch) from the stove, that is a sign that the stove is over-firing"
Yea inread that in the manual as well. But I'm burning 18-20% moisture and it happens all the time. I can hear it roaring from an different room. I hate it. Lol
Similar threads
