Video Install of my Osburn 1800, Chimney Liner, and Blockoff Plate

[ADDvanced]

Dudes. It was 27 yesterday. 84 in my living room. 73 in the rest of the house. Furnace didn't run the whole day, lmao. Love this thing.

Question tho.... if I shut my air control lever all the way.... what should the fire do?

Due to the installation I had to bend the arm of the lever, which limits how much it can move open or closed; I don't know if I am getting full open or full closed. Should the fire almost go out?

One thing I am struggling with is run time. Even if I jam this thing full, I'm lucky to get 3.5 hours. TOPS. Is it just due to how small this is?

 

[bholler]

Dudes. It was 27 yesterday. 84 in my living room. 73 in the rest of the house. Furnace didn't run the whole day, lmao. Love this thing.

Question tho.... if I shut my air control lever all the way.... what should the fire do?

Due to the installation I had to bend the arm of the lever, which limits how much it can move open or closed; I don't know if I am getting full open or full closed. Should the fire almost go out?

One thing I am struggling with is run time. Even if I jam this thing full, I'm lucky to get 3.5 hours. TOPS. Is it just due to how small this is?

Install a stainless elbow so you can move the stove out where it belongs. Then the air control will work properly.

 

[ADDvanced]

Not happening. Scope the vid, the blower assembly is already overhanging off the front edge of the hearth.

 

[begreen]

The video looked like the fire was getting too much air. As mentioned earlier, verify that the start-up air control is closing completely. The primary air control does not fully close. It always admits some air. One common mistake is waiting too long to close down the air. Try to be more aggressive about it, closing down in increments as soon as possible without snuffing out the flames completely, just making them lazy.

 

[bholler]

Not happening. Scope the vid, the blower assembly is already overhanging off the front edge of the hearth.

If the side of the firebox is interfering with the proper operation of the air control I don't see how you have an option. Why are you fighting against doing your install properly at every turn?

 

[Easy Livin’ 3000]

Not happening. Scope the vid, the blower assembly is already overhanging off the front edge of the hearth.

I liked the video, admired your gumption to get it done yourself, reminded me of my own install, and think that you are a righteous dude for your can-do attitude.

Here's where we are going to make a hard right turn. Bholler is exactly right.

No insulation on the liner takes it out of code (probably doesn't matter for practical sake), but it's still failing code. Let's not dwell on that, but you made a code failing install public, and your insurance company won't like that.

Onto the more interesting issue You need to be able to work the air. If you can't, it's a complete fail, as you'll ruin your stove if you can't shut the air all the way down, and it probably explains your short burn time. It's gonna over fire if you can't shut the air all the way down.

And, by the way, you lose a ton of cred points for saying a douchey thing like "scope the vid". Working a cell phone camera and uploading a video to utube ain't that impressive The almost right install is way more impressive.

Bholler is a professional who has tons of experience and knows what he's talking about. Get the elbow and move it out to access the air control, or you'll probably regret it. If the fan housing sticks out, who cares. It's like the bumper on your car, you won't even notice it. Mine does, and I don't.

 

[ADDvanced]

The video looked like the fire was getting too much air. As mentioned earlier, verify that the start-up air control is closing completely. The primary air control does not fully close. It always admits some air. One common mistake is waiting too long to close down the air. Try to be more aggressive about it, closing down in increments as soon as possible without snuffing out the flames completely, just making them lazy.

Do you have a video or link on what lazy looks like? Honestly it just doesn't feel like that valve does much of anything, if I'm honest.

 

[ADDvanced]

I liked the video, admired your gumption to get it done yourself, reminded me of my own install, and think that you are a righteous dude for your can-do attitude.

Here's where we are going to make a hard right turn. Bholler is exactly right.

No insulation on the liner takes it out of code (probably doesn't matter for practical sake), but it's still failing code. Let's not dwell on that, but you made a code failing install public, and your insurance company won't like that.

Onto the more interesting issue You need to be able to work the air. If you can't, it's a complete fail, as you'll ruin your stove if you can't shut the air all the way down, and it probably explains your short burn time. It's gonna over fire if you can't shut the air all the way down.

And, by the way, you lose a ton of cred points for saying a douchey thing like "scope the vid". Working a cell phone camera and uploading a video to utube ain't that impressive The almost right install is way more impressive.

Bholler is a professional who has tons of experience and knows what he's talking about. Get the elbow and move it out to access the air control, or you'll probably regret it. If the fan housing sticks out, who cares. It's like the bumper on your car, you won't even notice it. Mine does, and I don't.

Thanks for the feedback. It's good enough for me. I have a magnetic thermometer and it's honestly kind of challenging to get it into the 'burn zone' to avoid creosote, so I'm not too worried about overfiring.... but... are you saying that if I close the valve all the way, the fire should choke out?

The air valve lever came to me bent upwards at a 90 degree angle; I'm guessing for the exact same reason I am experiencing; it was hitting the side of the fireplace opening. Sort of a dumb design to be honest.

I can twist the insert, and remove that lever, and rebend the 90 degree upwards part closer to the flat plate, or further from the air control plate, which would adjust how deep it goes/how much it closes.

I'm just not sure where it is it.... it's super hard to tell because access is so limited.

I get what you are saying, but does that apply to these Osburn stoves/inserts? It seems like 99% of stoves have two levers... this only has one, and I'd love someone else to post their experiences with this stove, especially if they have some more information on how this valve is supposed to operate. It came to me modified like this, and it works with my install, and I understand why someone bent it, I'm just trying to understand what is supposed to happen when I close it all the way.

 

[bholler]

Thanks for the feedback. It's good enough for me. I have a magnetic thermometer and it's honestly kind of challenging to get it into the 'burn zone' to avoid creosote, so I'm not too worried about overfiring.... but... are you saying that if I close the valve all the way, the fire should choke out?

The air valve lever came to me bent upwards at a 90 degree angle; I'm guessing for the exact same reason I am experiencing; it was hitting the side of the fireplace opening. Sort of a dumb design to be honest.

I can twist the insert, and remove that lever, and rebend the 90 degree upwards part closer to the flat plate, or further from the air control plate, which would adjust how deep it goes/how much it closes.

I'm just not sure where it is it.... it's super hard to tell because access is so limited.

I get what you are saying, but does that apply to these Osburn stoves/inserts? It seems like 99% of stoves have two levers... this only has one, and I'd love someone else to post their experiences with this stove, especially if they have some more information on how this valve is supposed to operate. It came to me modified like this, and it works with my install, and I understand why someone bent it, I'm just trying to understand what is supposed to happen when I close it all the way.

No almost all stoves have a single lever.

Where do you have the thermometer?

 

[Easy Livin’ 3000]

Thanks for the feedback. It's good enough for me. I have a magnetic thermometer and it's honestly kind of challenging to get it into the 'burn zone' to avoid creosote, so I'm not too worried about overfiring.... but... are you saying that if I close the valve all the way, the fire should choke out?

The air valve lever came to me bent upwards at a 90 degree angle; I'm guessing for the exact same reason I am experiencing; it was hitting the side of the fireplace opening. Sort of a dumb design to be honest.

I can twist the insert, and remove that lever, and rebend the 90 degree upwards part closer to the flat plate, or further from the air control plate, which would adjust how deep it goes/how much it closes.

I'm just not sure where it is it.... it's super hard to tell because access is so limited.

I get what you are saying, but does that apply to these Osburn stoves/inserts? It seems like 99% of stoves have two levers... this only has one, and I'd love someone else to post their experiences with this stove, especially if they have some more information on how this valve is supposed to operate. It came to me modified like this, and it works with my install, and I understand why someone bent it, I'm just trying to understand what is supposed to happen when I close it all the way.

My stove is practically the same model. Yours is the Cadillac to my chevy. We have the same issue with the stove being too far back in the fireplace.

My air control is not compromised. I'd be on red alert if it were. Hard enough to control with both reigns in my hand. If you are burning through a load as fast as you describe, your stove is likely burning way too hot.

This stuff is not a joke. Getting it wrong burns your house down. If you have kids, take it more seriously.

 

[begreen]

The air valve lever came to me bent upwards at a 90 degree angle; I'm guessing for the exact same reason I am experiencing; it was hitting the side of the fireplace opening. Sort of a dumb design to be honest.

The design is fine. In a normal installation, the air control lever sticks out the front of the surround. There is nothing to hit when installed correctly. Try shutting down the air much sooner. Often a newbie waits too long to start closing down the air.

 

[ADDvanced]

My stove is practically the same model. Yours is the Cadillac to my chevy. We have the same issue with the stove being too far back in the fireplace.

My air control is not compromised. I'd be on red alert if it were. Hard enough to control with both reigns in my hand. If you are burning through a load as fast as you describe, your stove is likely burning way too hot.

This stuff is not a joke. Getting it wrong burns your house down. If you have kids, take it more seriously.

I have a magnetic thermometer on the side of the stove; it's not getting that hot. It's actually sort of a challenge to keep it in the 'burn zone' to prevent creosote.... highest I have ever seen was 450 deg, maybe 475? It puts out heat but it doesn't seem like it's all that hot; certainly have never seen anything glowing as others have reported in this forum.

Here is how far it sticks out currently:

Here is the air control vent on 'full open'

Here it is completely 'closed'

When I open it, it hits the wall. When I close it, it hits the stove. I can't see what the plate is doing, so I have no idea if I am closing off that intake completely or not. My choices are move the stove forwards, no, it's already overhanging, smash out the masonry, plz no, or adjust the handle in a way that offers a good compromise between usability and safety.

I just can't see what is happening under the stove tho. The interaction happens in the middle, under it, but above a sheet metal plate, so I really just can't see what is what. If I close it, should the fire die completely?

 

[ADDvanced]

Here is a video if it running with the air control valve turned all the way down:

 

[begreen]

The stove is back about 4-6" too far. It's the wrong stove for this hearth, but it sounds like you are not worried about it getting too hot, so enjoy.

 

[Easy Livin’ 3000]

I have a magnetic thermometer on the side of the stove; it's not getting that hot. It's actually sort of a challenge to keep it in the 'burn zone' to prevent creosote.... highest I have ever seen was 450 deg, maybe 475? It puts out heat but it doesn't seem like it's all that hot; certainly have never seen anything glowing as others have reported in this forum.

Here is how far it sticks out currently:

Here is the air control vent on 'full open'

Here it is completely 'closed'

When I open it, it hits the wall. When I close it, it hits the stove. I can't see what the plate is doing, so I have no idea if I am closing off that intake completely or not. My choices are move the stove forwards, no, it's already overhanging, smash out the masonry, plz no, or adjust the handle in a way that offers a good compromise between usability and safety.

I just can't see what is happening under the stove tho. The interaction happens in the middle, under it, but above a sheet metal plate, so I really just can't see what is what. If I close it, should the fire die completely?

If your wood is dry enough, closing it completely won't kill it, these EPA stoves are engineered to not allow this, because it would cause dirty, smouldering fires, we've been told.

It's impossible to tell from the videos and pics how it should look, because every load is different, and the stages of the fire affect the appearance.

My air set up is a little different, it slides front to back from the front. So I honestly can't be sure what's happening with yours.

I do agree with bgreen that this configuration makes the stove suboptimal for your fireplace. I suspect you could figure out how to make the air control work in the space, at it's current depth in the hearth, but it would probably be difficult to figure out without pulling it and getting a good look at what's happening. Plus, the stove mfg, insurance companies, and the smart folks on here frown upon making mods to stoves (I won't tell if you don't ;-). )

I'm still of the opinion that spending $50 on a replacement stove adaptor with a 30° bend probably solves your problem. I think you'll have to cut the damper frame out, which you probably should have done before so you didn't have to squish the liner.

In candor, I've been meaning to get the 30° adaptor elbow myself for 3 or 4 years. But the prospect of redoing the install is daunting. So I get your reluctance to redo it. All that said, I wouldn't be running a stove that I didn't have control of the air, it's just too dangerous.

The thermometer should be on the top, on the inner shell, as close to the outlet as possible. That's where it gets hottest, and where the heat would first damage your stove. Your location isn't giving you the data you need. I highly recommend a laser thermometer, you can get a cheap and reliable one from Harbour Freight for about $20. It was the single best investment I made to understand what was going on with the stove.

 

[ADDvanced]

Okay, I'll move the thermometer and check it

 

[ADDvanced]

Udpate, moved the thermometer to the top of the box, right next to the pipe. It read lower, lol.

I had it on the side as shown in the video, and I think the hot air from the fire HAS to go forward and around the fire brick plate, then back towards the rear, then up the chimney, but since it's double wall there is an air gap on top where the air blows out of, so I think the blower was making that area cooler.

 

[Easy Livin’ 3000]

Udpate, moved the thermometer to the top of the box, right next to the pipe. It read lower, lol.

I had it on the side as shown in the video, and I think the hot air from the fire HAS to go forward and around the fire brick plate, then back towards the rear, then up the chimney, but since it's double wall there is an air gap on top where the air blows out of, so I think the blower was making that area cooler.

I looked at the pictures again. It looks like you can't put it on the inner stove wall, so it was my mistake. Unless I'm seeing it wrong, you are getting the outer shell temp on the top. I bet the manual specifies where to take the temp. Have you found a copy of the manual? Pretty easy to find online, and I've found SBI manuals to be excellent. Your original location might be correct, per the manufacturer, but the hottest spot on the stove is going to be on the top immediately in front of the outlet, whether the fan is on or not. But not on the outer shell.

Get a laser thermometer and hit the liner just above where it goes into stove.

Btw, an overfire in an SBI stove is 840° at the spot I specified on the inner shell. They used to publish this in their manuals, but don't anymore. That is a different discussion. Find the manual and read it.

 

[bholler]

Udpate, moved the thermometer to the top of the box, right next to the pipe. It read lower, lol.

I had it on the side as shown in the video, and I think the hot air from the fire HAS to go forward and around the fire brick plate, then back towards the rear, then up the chimney, but since it's double wall there is an air gap on top where the air blows out of, so I think the blower was making that area cooler.

That is because you placed it ontop of the convective top not the stove top. How much liner is exposed? Could you put a thermometer on it?

 

[ADDvanced]

The bit under the decorate top panel is the inside liner, I think

 

[bholler]

The bit under the decorate top panel is the inside liner, I think

Oh you are on the face. When we say top we mean on top but I don't think you can get there. I always prefer pipe temps it looks like you have room there

 

[ADDvanced]

Yeah I can try putting it on the pipe next, no problem, give me a day or so.

 

[ADDvanced]

So I put it on the pipe and it wound up reading even lower. Forgot to update.

How much would should I be going through in a day?

 

[ADDvanced]

Alright, we have been heating the house, at least the upstairs anyway, pretty much full time from this tiny little osburn. I put a box fan in the hallway to blow cold air towards the side of the house with the insert, and a lighter confirms warm air is coming to the 'cold' end.

I do have a question about burning techniques, that I was hoping someone would help me with.

I read that it's MOST efficient to let the fire burn down to coals before reloading.

I also read that it's most efficient to keep the stove HOT.

These seem to be at odds with each other. If I let it get down to the coals, the magnet thermometer says the stove is in the 'too cool' range at under 250 degrees.


If it gets under 250, it can take a while to get back up to the sweet spot.... which I can maintain, if I add fuel more often.

So which is it? Burn to embers, or keep at the right temperature?

 

[bholler]

Alright, we have been heating the house, at least the upstairs anyway, pretty much full time from this tiny little osburn. I put a box fan in the hallway to blow cold air towards the side of the house with the insert, and a lighter confirms warm air is coming to the 'cold' end.

I do have a question about burning techniques, that I was hoping someone would help me with.

I read that it's MOST efficient to let the fire burn down to coals before reloading.

I also read that it's most efficient to keep the stove HOT.

These seem to be at odds with each other. If I let it get down to the coals, the magnet thermometer says the stove is in the 'too cool' range at under 250 degrees.


If it gets under 250, it can take a while to get back up to the sweet spot.... which I can maintain, if I add fuel more often.

So which is it? Burn to embers, or keep at the right temperature?

Burn to embers. Once it is down to charcoal it is fine to drop below the ideal burn zone.