Want feedback on 2-cycle 100:1 oils like Amsoil Saber and opti-2

[cjgoode]

Looks for some first and experience running these 2-cycle oils at a ration of 100:1 in all their equipment. I am considering Amsoil saber or opti-2 both claim 100:1 mix significantly reduces smoke, stabalizes gas, properly lubricates engine and can be run in all 2-cycle equipment. Read a lot of reviews including on this sight that were quite old. All actual users report good results, have not found anyone actually destroying their engine on these 100:1 oils. Looking for some first hand feedback (Fresher). I would be running it at 100:1 in some Stihl saws, brush cutters and a 1995 Polaris 6x6. My main goal would be to reduce smoke, which a lot of reviews claim they have significant reduction on smoke and smell.

Hoping to hear from "MasterMech" who has many post about using these 100:1 ratio oils and in one post was going to rebuild a saw I think that had been running it, real curious if it looked like it was properly lubricated and the piston still looked good.

 

[thisoldgoat]

I've run Amsoil 100:1 in my old Olympic 251 since the early 1980s... still runs great, maintains excellent compression. I will have no qualms about using it in my Stihls once I've used up my supply of Stihl branded oil (got a good deal on it when I purchased the saws). I have been using it in a small water transfer pump as well, again since the 1980s with no issues.

 

[salecker]

Read up about 100:1 use on some forums where they use chainsaws or OPE a lot.
Most users of OPE on this site are homeowners who cut their own wood.
Go to Arborist site or Outdoor Power Equipment.
The only way i would use a mixture like 100:1 is if the oil company was paying me to test the oil,or they were giving me a saw to use at their mixture ratio

 

[ABMax24]

I've spent a bit of time working on larger displacement high output 2-stroke motors, what I can say is failure due to lack of lubrication is still to this day a very real and common cause of engine failure.

Is it possible that AMSOIL has a formulation that allows the oil to stay within the engine longer to provide lubrication, maybe. I don't believe the lack of solvent garbage that is referred to in some discussions about Saber oil, if there is solvent in any of the 2-stroke oil I buy it's in the form of more oil, which is good for the engine.

Long story short I won't be trying to run any of my equipment on 100:1 mix ratio, I'd maybe try the Saber oil, but I'd be mixing it at 50:1 for my saw as recommended by Husqvarna.

 

[brenndatomu]

real curious if it looked like it was properly lubricated and the piston still looked good.

My understanding is that in torture testing done with these ultra high ratio oils, the crank bearings start to fail before there was piston damage...surprisingly. I would have guessed there would be piston damage first.
And again, as I understand it, the bearings didn't suddenly fail catastrophically, but rather were starting to self destruct at relatively low hours...looked/sounded rough when examined after teardown.

 

[cjgoode]

My understanding is that in torture testing done with these ultra high ratio oils, the crank bearings start to fail before there was piston damage...surprisingly. I would have guessed there would be piston damage first.
And again, as I understand it, the bearings didn't suddenly fail catastrophically, but rather were starting to self destruct at relatively low hours...looked/sounded rough when examined after teardown.

I have googled the heck out of it and read posts from everywhere, I still cannot find any first hand horror stories, yet lots of success stories using them for decades. Lot of theory that its bad, but still cannot find first hand reports of failures.

 

[brenndatomu]

I have googled the heck out of it and read posts from everywhere, I still cannot find any first hand horror stories, yet lots of success stories using them for decades. Lot of theory that its bad, but still cannot find first hand reports of failures.

It was one of the OPE forum members that did this testing...Huskihl was the one that told me about it...

 

[brenndatomu]

I don't get the obcession with people wanting to go as thin as possible with their 2 cycle gas/oil mixture...it's not like most of us use more than a few quarts of 2 stroke oil per year, if even that...so you are saving pennies and risking blowing up a what, $300-$1000 saw?! Makes no sense to me.
And these are often the same people that will argue until they are blue in the face that your car/truck oil MUST be changed at 3000 miles, or risk dropping rods at 3001 miles...

 

[cjgoode]

I don't get the obcession with people wanting to go as thin as possible with their 2 cycle gas/oil mixture...it's not like most of us use more than a few quarts of 2 stroke oil per year, if even that...so you are saving pennies and risking blowing up a what, $300-$1000 saw?! Makes no sense to me.
And these are often the same people that will argue until they are blue in the face that your car/truck oil MUST be changed at 3000 miles, or risk dropping rods at 3001 miles...

If you took a normal oil and did it, yeah looking for disaster. Mainly looking to reduce smoke and have one mix for all equipment and with a 6x6 ATV with a 2 stroke, really want less smoke. And this stuff I do not think will save me a single penny, cost me more. Amazon just dropped off my opti-2 packets, will have to decide 100:1 or 80:1 and give it a try. If I blow up the engine, heck I would love to convert to 4 stroke anyways, and I only paid $300 for it. Has top end rebuilt and compression over 130 so its not smoking because its warn out. And my Stihl saw already blew up once because of a pin size air hole in the fuel line making it run lean, so it is running on a $50 piston and jug already, and runs great on it.

 

[ABMax24]

If you took a normal oil and did it, yeah looking for disaster. Mainly looking to reduce smoke and have one mix for all equipment and with a 6x6 ATV with a 2 stroke, really want less smoke. And this stuff I do not think will save me a single penny, cost me more. Amazon just dropped off my opti-2 packets, will have to decide 100:1 or 80:1 and give it a try. If I blow up the engine, heck I would love to convert to 4 stroke anyways, and I only paid $300 for it. Has top end rebuilt and compression over 130 so its not smoking because its warn out. And my Stihl saw already blew up once because of a pin size air hole in the fuel line making it run lean, so it is running on a $50 piston and jug already, and runs great on it.

2 strokes don't smoke when the rings wear out, that's a 4 stroke problem because engine oil is getting into the cylinder past the rings. 2 strokes smoke because they operate on a total loss lubrication system, and the oil exits through the exhaust.

If you don't care about wrecking it, go for it I guess. If your just idling around it'll probably last a while, my guess is it wouldn't last a day of hard operation with oil mixed at 100:1.

 

[brenndatomu]

I run every 2 stroke I have, and have ever had, on 32:1 Yamalube...nothing fancy, but I have never had one problem either...and no smoke...I'd be ok if someone wanted to thin it out to 40:1 for "less smoke" (there is already none visable)
I personally wouldn't run anything less than 50:1, and even that only on an "emergency" basis.
And as was just mentioned, two stroke smoking is totally controlled by gas/oil mixture, and fuel/air mixture through the carb too...but any half decent oil should not be visable in the exhaust at 32:1 or thinner...at least not after the first minute or so after choke/cold start...

 

[Bad LP]

I run every 2 stroke I have, and have ever had, on 32:1 Yamalube...nothing fancy, but I have never had one problem either...and no smoke...I'd be ok if someone wanted to thin it out to 40:1 for "less smoke" (there is already none visable)
I personally wouldn't run anything less than 50:1, and even that only on an "emergency" basis.
And as was just mentioned, two stroke smoking is totally controlled by gas/oil mixture, and fuel/air mixture through the carb too...but any half decent oil should not be visable in the exhaust at 32:1 or thinner...at least not after the first minute or so after choke/cold start...

I had a pair of 200HP HPDI outboards on my boat and the prior owner ran nothing but Yamalube thru them. I was doing PM work on them and noticed that oil burnt rather dirty.
Changed to a Semi Synthetic from Mystic. Not only did they not smoke or stink as much but a few cases of gallons were run thru them and the cleanliness of them was remarkable on the O2 sensors.

 

[brenndatomu]

I had a pair of 200HP HPDI outboards on my boat and the prior owner ran nothing but Yamalube thru them. I was doing PM work on them and noticed that oil burnt rather dirty.
Changed to a Semi Synthetic from Mystic. Not only did they not smoke or stink as much but a few cases of gallons were run thru them and the cleanliness of them was remarkable on the O2 sensors.

I was running non marine yamalube in non marine products though too...I have very limited experience with marine stuff...pretty much only a couple years there where our dealership sold Yamaha Waverunners and Jammers (back when they first came out) but we were pretty inland, so not big business for us...not sure how/why we had them in the first place honestly...

 

[Bad LP]

I was running non marine yamalube in non marine products though too...I have very limited experience with marine stuff...pretty much only a couple years there where our dealership sold Yamaha Waverunners and Jammers (back when they first came out) but we were pretty inland, so not big business for us...not sure how/why we had them in the first place honestly...

I took Yamilube off 6 snowmobiles. (My new one requires synthetic) One of those was rather modified and they all did extremely well at factory oil settings and synthetic oils. No need to be a test pilot when you are over 50 miles from anything.

Burning down an engine costs a lot more than a few gallons of oil.

 

[mar13]

This thread has been quiet for 2 years, but I had some hardwarestore credit I had to use up and they had some Oregon oil-mix available. It came in pillow packets (50ml) and was labeled "Only One (TM)" . I couldn't find it's fuel mixture, but claimed it was good for all 2-cycle engines. I bought 2 packets. I contacted Oregon, and they replied it's 100:1. The said it is so that small engine machine shops don't have to worry about which blend they are using.

Like some of you, I'm wary of doing 100:1 in a chainsaw Stihl calls for 50:1. Do you think I'll foul my spark plugs if I use one packet per 1/2 gallon?

Perhaps I'm over thinking this ratio stuff. (Isn't the service of most of these forums posts is to over think things!) If the additive is twice as concentrated as a typical 50:1 additive, then it's essentially the same, so 100:1 vs 50:1 is only a meaningful comparison if the additives are the same.

I'll let you know more if I get any further info from Oregon. (They should put an explanation on the packets or at least the store box holding the packets.)

 

[ericm979]

The oil itself can't be concentrated. It might have more additives like detergents in it so there's at least a reasonable amount of them at 100:1, but oil is oil. It's going to have half the lubricating properties at 100:1 vs 50:1. Personally I'm leery of 100:1 in saws. I ran 75:1 in specialized off road two stroke motorcycles (observed trials) where there's little time spent at full throttle and the engines are water cooled with a radiator fan. But for an air cooled saw running full throttle all the time I'll follow the manufacturers recommendation.

 

[brenndatomu]

Do you think I'll foul my spark plugs if I use one packet per 1/2 gallon?

Nope.
50ml in 1 gallon is more like 75:1 so 50ml in 1/2 gallon would be about 37.5:1...nothing wrong with that at all.

 

[qwee]

I don't understand the chemistry behind the 100:1 stuff. I would probably run it at 50:1 just to be safe. For regular 2 stroke oils I've drawn several conclusions,

1) The manufacturer may say 50:1 but better to run 40:1. The little extra oil helps keep things lubed especially in the crank area.

2) Use FC or FD rated oils, avoid Stihl Ultra (FB rated). Echo Red Armor is one of the best oils with excellent lubrication and it cleans, too. Ultra works but it isn't as good as some of the other oils.

3) Amsoil Saber is also a good oil, but I would run it like any other oil - not at 100:1. But these new 100:1 oils may be better, I don't really know.

4) Boat motor 2 stroke oils, although having a bit different chemistry, work just fine in chainsaws - just run them in the 32:1 to 40:1 ratio (to be safer). This is my conclusion. I used a gallon of Pennzoil XLF outboard oil and it appeared to do a good job (lubrication wise & low smoke wise). My saws did not complain in the least and stayed cool. Each person will have to decide for themselves, though.

5) Don't add too much oil to the gas thinking it will protect better. This will cause your equipment to run hotter due to having to work harder to burn off that extra oil. The sweet spot range (the balance between firing and lubrication) is 30:1 to 45:1. If the 100:1 oils in fact provide enough lube this is a breakthrough in 2-cycle engine oils - time will tell.

 

[salecker]

I have run the Saber at 32:1 with no issues,i run all my 2 cycle stuff on that ratio.
Vintage saws,mtronic saws,snow machines, ect

 

[ericm979]

I don't understand the chemistry behind the 100:1 stuff. I would probably run it at 50:1 just to be safe. For regular 2 stroke oils I've drawn several conclusions,

1) The manufacturer may say 50:1 but better to run 40:1. The little extra oil helps keep things lubed especially in the crank area.

2) Use FC or FD rated oils, avoid Stihl Ultra (FB rated). Echo Red Armor is one of the best oils with excellent lubrication and it cleans, too. Ultra works but it isn't as good as some of the other oils.

3) Amsoil Saber is also a good oil, but I would run it like any other oil - not at 100:1. But these new 100:1 oils may be better, I don't really know.

I agree with all that.

4) Boat motor 2 stroke oils, although having a bit different chemistry, work just fine in chainsaws - just run them in the 32:1 to 40:1 ratio (to be safer). This is my conclusion. I used a gallon of Pennzoil XLF outboard oil and it appeared to do a good job (lubrication wise & low smoke wise). My saws did not complain in the least and stayed cool. Each person will have to decide for themselves, though.

Stihl specifically recommends against some boat oils:

"Do not use NMMA or TCW rated (two-stroke water cooled) mix oils or other mix oils that state they are for use in both
water cooled and air cooled engines (e.g., outboard motors, snowmobiles, chain saws, mopeds, etc.)."

This is from the MS362 manual but you'll find it in all of them. I suspect the XLF oil would be included in this do not use list- its rated TC-W3 which as far as I can tell is for water cooled engines, which run cooler than air cooled saws. The docs for XLF do not say it's for both outboards and saws, or mention air cooled engines.

5) Don't add too much oil to the gas thinking it will protect better. This will cause your equipment to run hotter due to having to work harder to burn off that extra oil. The sweet spot range (the balance between firing and lubrication) is 30:1 to 45:1. If the 100:1 oils in fact provide enough lube this is a breakthrough in 2-cycle engine oils - time will tell.

Tests have shown increased power all the way down to 15:1. www.bridgestonemotorcycle.com/documents/oilpremix6.pdf

The engine does not run hotter to "burn off" the oil. The oil pretty much does not burn. at least not anything like how gasoline burns. The engine would run hotter if you ran a new mix with more oil without retuning the carb. Since oil is not fuel but the carb meters the mix, if the carb is not tuned you end up with a slightly leaner fuel:air ratio. So you need to make some carb adjustments when changing mix ratios significantly. (see the Jennings paper where he talks about the jetting changes)

I'm not running anything richer than 40:1 or 45:1 for saws. I think with good oil that is sufficient for the loads and conditions that saws see. More oil would be technically be better but also it'd mean me breathing more fine oil droplets and going through oil faster for little benefit.

 

[qwee]

That makes sense on the 2 stroke oil/gas mixture. Retuning sounds like the key.

Everyone is free to their opinions. If I was Stihl selling Ultra I would say other oils are not good, too, when your oil is the one that is a lower grade. I base the outboard motor oil on 3 sources,
1) I called Pennzoil once and asked them about their XLF oil - they said the engineer who made this oil ran it in his air-cooled machines (pride?).
2) Mechanic, Richard Flagg, puts Schaeffer boat motor oil towards the top of the 2-stroke oil heap (see youtube videos).
3) She actually did a test - and I have found the same results when I used Pennzoil XLF (although she cuts with more effort than he does!).

 

[mar13]

The was Oregon's response to my initial question asking which ratio their oil packet created:

"That oil packet is giving a ratio of 100:1 when mixed with 1 gallon of gas. This high quality oil allows small engine repair shops and businesses that run many different kinds of two cycle equipment to use just 1 fuel mix in all types of machines regardless of the ratio listed for each different manufacturer."

 

[ericm979]

The was Oregon's response to my initial question asking which ratio their oil packet created:

"That oil packet is giving a ratio of 100:1 when mixed with 1 gallon of gas. This high quality oil allows small engine repair shops and businesses that run many different kinds of two cycle equipment to use just 1 fuel mix in all types of machines regardless of the ratio listed for each different manufacturer."

But you can do that with 50:1 oil too, and actually meet the manufacturer's recommendations.

 

[mar13]

Here's a secondary follow-up by Oregon and, if you care, was my secondary message to them to which they replied. Maybe I'll just add a packet to 3/4 gallon of (ethanol free) gas and call it a good enough compromise.

Oregon:
" Basically , the oil is good to use at 100:1 but I understand completely your concerns, and as such I would say use 2 packets to get the 50:1 and you will not have to worry about it. The additive packages that 2 cycle oil manufacturers use is based not only on performance requirements and also EPA pollution laws, it is also based on how high quality the base oil is used in the first place. Many chain saw manufacturers use a lower quality base oil and then beef up the performance by adding special additives to up the performance level of the oil. This is cheaper than buying high quality base oil and adding less additives.
All of the 100:1 mix oils that I have been around use high quality base oil and less additives.
I hope this makes sense."

My earlier email that for which Oregon gave this second reply:

Me:
"Thank you for the information. So with the Oregon packet giving 100:1 per gallon, for a Stihl chainsaw (50:1), use 2 packets per a gallon or 1 packet per half gallon?

I noticed that The Oregon packet (p/n 40092) is 1.8 fl.oz (50ml), compared to 2.6oz (76.9ml) of Husqvarna's oil mix blend to achieve 50:1.

Not being a mechanic, I'm a bit wary of putting 100:1 blend into a chainsaw that is documented as needing 50:1. Or are you saying this is good enough stuff that it doesn't matter?

Perhaps I'm over thinking this ratio stuff. If the additive is twice as concentrated as a typical 50:1 additive, then it's essentially the same, so 100:1 vs 50:1 is only a meaningful comparison if the additives are the same.

Any advice is appreciated."

 

[salecker]

It's your saw ultimately, so your decision on the ratio you run.
When it dies you will pay to repair or replace,not Oregon, or Amsoil, or Stihl, or any other oil you use.
That why i run 32:1
Good cheap insurance as i am the guy who works on my saws and pays for parts.
So my advice is to run all oils at the same 32:1 mix for all your 2 cycle needs.
Keeps it simple.
Splash some Seafoam in each batch of mix for extra protection in case you dodn't use the saw or... for a year or two.