Wisdom/mechanics of stacking alongside a cinder block retaining wall

[trevarthan]

Hello,

Introduction:

I've been thinking about re-arranging my wood piles a bit to free up some yard space and make mowing easier. I also bought a Robomow RS612 last week, so a clean obstruction free mowing area is my driving motivation. Here's an aerial photo I took with one of my drones a few days ago:

Miscellaneous Notes:

The wood pile with four tarps over it (2nd from the right) was mostly gone after this season's burning, so yesterday I moved the remains onto the metal racks on the far right.

I plan to cut up the two large chunks in the middle, near the wall, as soon as weather permits. (It's raining today.) They're left-overs from all the free tornado wood we had a few years back. There's a big stump in the middle of the yard to the right of the left most wood piles, but it doesn't matter for the purposes of this discussion.

First Question:

The cinder block retaining wall at the top of the photo is what I'm curious about. It faces south-east. North is in the upper right corner of the photo, south is in the lower left.

Would it be a good idea to move/restack the 3rd and 4th wood piles (from the right), over against/along the retaining wall?

Rationale:

The yard is on a bit of a slope (low end of the slope at the bottom of the photo) and when it rains, these wood piles tend to shift. You can see the two in the middle are leaning and have already fallen down a bit. This is common throughout the year. I'm constantly having to restack them. The wood pile on the far right (the only one in metal racks - the rest just rest on the ground) is standing on big chunks of concrete removed from a construction project (urbanite). Since I added these concrete "footers", I haven't had to restack that wood pile. It's been that way about two years now and hasn't fallen over once. It used to fall a few times a year, at least. So, my brain thinks, more concrete = less maintenance. I'm lazy, so I dig this idea.

Second Question:

So, I was thinking... the retaining wall is about 59' long. A quick concrete calculator on the internet says I could pour a 2' x 59' x 4" slab for about 66x 80lb bags of quikcrete, which is about $300 with tax. I'd just need to build the forms and buy a mixer. I've built and poured concrete forms before, so I know this is a crap ton of work, but other than the mixer, I've already got the tools I need.

Future plans:

Eventually, I could make a pretty sweet little wood pile shed just by adding a simple roof. The roof would use the top of the retaining wall as it's back support and 4x4 posts for the front. I could use either those corrugated translucent plastic sheets or traditional roofing shingles. I've done some shingling, so whatever is easier/cheaper/better.

Advantages:

• No more messing about with tarps (at least for the one wood pile - I could always build more sheds for the other piles in coming years).
• Wood that doesn't fall over all the time.
• Way more yard space.
• Obstruction free mowing.

Sanity Check:

Is this crazy? Is there a flaw in the plan I'm not seeing? Is there anything I can do with less work that would be better?

Thanks,

--
Jesse

 

[madison]

I am all for wind/air and sun. So I would vote against stacking with the cinder block wall blocking the wind, or inhibiting airflow. And it looks like the present stacks run east/west so they get decent sun exposure, except the one on the left under the big tree.. I don't bother with tarps anymore, except the stack that I am bringing into the garage to burn, the other stacks remain uncovered.

Regarding stability, a number of yrs ago, I invested in laying down item 4 stone and then pallets, and stability and stacks falling over are a thing of the past. The item 4 stone drains, and once tamped down is a good as cement. It was fairly easy to level and has not settled much at all. 40 x 48" pallets and you easily get two rows on the 40" dimension.

I think the craziest thing ( and I mean this in a good way) is the drone overhead picture of the stacks. Thanks for sharing.

 

[Oldman47]

Hello,

So, I was thinking... the retaining wall is about 59' long. A quick concrete calculator on the internet says I could pour a 2' x 59' x 4" slab for about 66x 80lb bags of quikcrete, which is about $300 with tax. I'd just need to build the forms and buy a mixer. I've built and poured concrete forms before, so I know this is a crap ton of work, but other than the mixer, I've already got the tools I need.

Jesse

I just did a quick calculation and you are projecting $300 for a bit less than 1 1/2 yards of concrete. Have you considered a small load of gravel, smaller load of sand and some portland cement?
I have no idea if the concrete base is a good idea but know from experience there is no more expensive way to buy concrete than by the sack.

 

[DougA]

If you can source free pallets, I would put a row of them with opening facing up along the wall and a row on the ground. Now you have separated the wood from the block wall and the ground and allowed some air to flow all around the wood. It's not as great as a single row like you have but it's much better than stacking right against the block wall.

 

[trevarthan]

I am all for wind/air and sun. So I would vote against stacking with the cinder block wall blocking the wind, or inhibiting airflow. And it looks like the present stacks run east/west so they get decent sun exposure, except the one on the left under the big tree..

Yeah, that was my initial argument against the cinder block wall when my partner suggested it a year or two ago. Better sunlight out in the yard. Thing is... those piles have mushrooms growing on them as it is, despite getting fairly good sunlight all day. It's extremely humid here in Tennessee. I'm thinking having a dry foundation and a roof to keep off the rain might negate any loss of sunlight. I could space them a foot from the wall to improve the airflow. Worst that can happen is it doesn't work and I learn a lesson and lose some time and money. Best that can happen is I love it and save some yard space/mowing time.

I don't bother with tarps anymore, except the stack that I am bringing into the garage to burn, the other stacks remain uncovered.

I only use the tarps in the winter. I only bring inside what I plan to burn immediately, due to all the bugs, so the tarps keep the wood dry and ready to burn when I need it. I have a covered back concrete patio and I used to pile up a couple of weeks worth of wood there as a dry supply, but I'm getting lazy and the tarps are less work.

Regarding stability, a number of yrs ago, I invested in laying down item 4 stone and then pallets, and stability and stacks falling over are a thing of the past. The item 4 stone drains, and once tamped down is a good as cement. It was fairly easy to level and has not settled much at all. 40 x 48" pallets and you easily get two rows on the 40" dimension.

I think the craziest thing ( and I mean this in a good way) is the drone overhead picture of the stacks. Thanks for sharing.

Thanks for the item 4 stone + pallet suggestion. I'm diggin that idea. Sounds a lot easier than concrete. I'll have to check prices.

Yeah, I have a lot of fun with the drones. Love seeing the world from the air. So cool. :D

I just did a quick calculation and you are projecting $300 for a bit less than 1 1/2 yards of concrete. Have you considered a small load of gravel, smaller load of sand and some portland cement?
I have no idea if the concrete base is a good idea but know from experience there is no more expensive way to buy concrete than by the sack.

I ordered a load of pre-mixed cement a couple of years back. Went very quickly and was inexpensive. Only downside was the cement truck snagged the neighbor's telephone line on the way back out the driveway. The fix was same day and free, via the utility company. They said it happens all the time. Still, I'd be willing to do a bit more work and spend a bit more money to keep that from happening again. I don't like to annoy my neighbors more than I have to. They already put up with the angry bees (drones) and all of my other crazy hobbies, like blacksmithing in my driveway.

Sounds like gravel and pallets might be a better option anyway.

 

[Woody Stover]

A wider base will give the stacks more stability, no doubt. My latest stacks are double rows on pallets. Each row is to an outside edge of the pallet, with a concrete block under each of the forklift notches of the outer rails, so 4 blocks per pallet. We have similar humidity here, and top-covering helps, especially since my stacks are in the trees and don't get as much wind or sun.

 

[trevarthan]

A wider base will give the stacks more stability, no doubt. My latest stacks are double rows on pallets. Each row is to an outside edge of the pallet, with a concrete block under each of the forklift notches of the outer rails, so 4 blocks per pallet. We have similar humidity here, and top-covering helps, especially since my stacks are in the trees and don't get as much wind or sun.

I was having trouble visualizing this. I had a pallet and some cracked blocks sitting around, so I thought I'd mock it up. Is this what you meant?

I clearly have a lot of leveling to do.

Lose a lot of height this way, but this pallet is 4' 1" wide, so I'll need 15 pallets to run the whole length of the retaining wall. That's 60 blocks at $1.25 ea, or $75. I'm confident I can source the pallets from local retailers over time for free. Way cheaper than concrete, for sure.

Maybe use solid cap concrete blocks to keep it a bit lower profile? They're only 2 cents more ea.

 

[Applesister]

The solid cap concrete blocks...definitely! They are the best.

 

[Woody Stover]

I was having trouble visualizing this....Maybe use solid cap concrete blocks to keep it a bit lower profile? They're only 2 cents more ea.

Yeah, my verbal descriptive skills need work but that's the general idea. I ran my rows along the edges, over the 2x4s, and even tried to stack over the edges a bit to get the weight over the rails and keep the middle of the pallets from sagging. That wouldn't be an issue if I supported the middle rail too, using 6 blocks per pallet. I laid the full blocks with the solid face down since I'm stacking in the woods and the soil is soft. You probably have firmer soil where you are stacking.This is stacked on a slope; Bottom edge is a full block plus a cap, top edge is just a cap block. In the last pic, you can see that the row on the left that I stacked last year has shifted somewhat. I probably need to go out with a hammer and straighten it a bit. This is Red Oak but I think with most species, some shifting is inevitable as the wood dries. I'm only stacking 4' high so as to avoid a stack crash if possible. Oak pallets will last many years if they are up off the ground, but I have some made of lesser woods, so it remains to be seen how durable those will be...

 

[Bspring]

No question about it, I would use the wall and plan on a roof ASAP. If you are several years ahead the lack of air flow will not be a problem but in TN your wood should be covered. I would also consider thinking about how you might expand this in the future such as multiple rows.

 

[jeffesonm]

I would also use the wall and build a shed. Maybe run a row of pallets vertical up against the wall to keep some space/airflow back there. I would probably skip the concrete though, and just grade it level and put down some stone.