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heberthwp

New Member
Oct 26, 2021
9
Mountain Dale, NY
Hi all,

I am new here. I have been trying to learn as much as possible but still seem unable to find the right answer. Most retailers want to sell what they have in stock or what they guess you can afford, and they are not so open to answer questions. What we need is to insert a wood burning insert into a peninsula fireplace. We are trying to heat a 2,700 sq. ft. 2-story home, we estimate we need at a minimum 65,000 BTU's and over 75% Efficiency rate, at least 8h burning time, with blower, hopefully good emissions rate, EPA certified and ideally lifetime warranty, auto off, remote and thermostat, and a nice size viewing window. Door should be on the left as shown on picture and effective opening is 37 w x 27 h x 26 d. We are fortunate to have a person who can either put a plate on the two other sides or build a masonry around to fit the insert without modifying the actual fireplace structure. We initially looked onto installing a gas insert but it seemed complicated and not as efficient but if someone here can make suggestions we are also still open to this. We are in the Catskills so it is starting to get really cold here so any help will be appreciated.

Fireplace specs.jpg Fireplace.jpg
 

begreen

Mooderator
Staff member
Nov 18, 2005
90,622
South Puget Sound, WA
I can say that there is no insert that will tick off all the marks mentioned. Some compromising will be necessary.

Put in the biggest insert that will fit in there and connect to a fully insulated 6 or 8" stainless liner up the chimney. That and several cords of dry, fully-seasoned firewood should warm things up. Start with looking at the Buck 91.
 

heberthwp

New Member
Oct 26, 2021
9
Mountain Dale, NY
I can say that there is no insert that will tick off all the marks mentioned. Some compromising will be necessary.

Put in the biggest insert that will fit in there and connect to a fully insulated 6 or 8" stainless liner up the chimney. That and several cords of dry, fully-seasoned firewood should warm things up. Start with looking at the Buck 91.
Wow. Thanks! I was not even aware there were wood stoves you can actually insert. How would you rate the Buck 91 performance against an Osburn 3500, a Summit by Pacific Energy or a Regency CI2700 Wood Insert? I noticed some product reviews on the Buck 91 saying there is no way it can go over 3 hours and heat a 3,000 sq ft.
 

bholler

Chimney sweep
Staff member
Jan 14, 2014
26,156
central pa
Wow. Thanks! I was not even aware there were wood stoves you can actually insert. How would you rate the Buck 91 performance against an Osburn 3500, a Summit by Pacific Energy or a Regency CI2700 Wood Insert? I noticed some product reviews on the Buck 91 saying there is no way it can go over 3 hours and heat a 3,000 sq ft.
Putting out enough BTUs to heat your house is one thing. Getting that heat distributed through your house from a single point heat source is a whole different issue.

Can you tell us a little about your homes layout?

What do you mean by auto off and remote btw?
 

begreen

Mooderator
Staff member
Nov 18, 2005
90,622
South Puget Sound, WA
They are all good inserts with different features. There is some discussion in the current 'Talk me out of a Buck 91' thread that compares the Osburn and a little bit on the Summit. Both of them are very efficient, but just under the 75% HHV threshold.

Heating claims are relative to many variable factors like the house insulation, outside temp, wood quality, stove location, the operator, etc. The Buck 91 will easily provide a 12 hr burn, so will the Osburn 3500 or PE Summit. But at what outside temperature? As it gets colder outside, draft increases along with the house's heat losses. So a stove that can burn for 12 hrs in 30-40º weather may only burn for 8 or 6 hrs when it's 15º outside because it is being pushed harder for more heat to make up for the increase heat loss of the house. Thus a cat stove that can go for 24 hrs between refills when it's 50º outside, may need to be reloaded every 8 hrs when it's very cold out.

It could very well be that even with a big stove in that fireplace that the central heating system will kick in to supplement when it's cold out. That's not the end of the world, it's a big house, and running the primary heating system occasionally during a cold snap may stop pipes from freezing.
 
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begreen

Mooderator
Staff member
Nov 18, 2005
90,622
South Puget Sound, WA
Can you tell us a little about your homes layout?
There is a small floor layout plan in the dimensions sketch. Looks pretty open.
 
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bholler

Chimney sweep
Staff member
Jan 14, 2014
26,156
central pa
There is a small floor layout plan in the dimensions sketch. Looks pretty open.
Thanks and yes it does look pretty open so it may work well
 

heberthwp

New Member
Oct 26, 2021
9
Mountain Dale, NY
Putting out enough BTUs to heat your house is one thing. Getting that heat distributed through your house from a single point heat source is a whole different issue.

Can you tell us a little about your homes layout?

What do you mean by auto off and remote btw?
For distribution, I was told I can put fans running behind the stove in the direction of the stairs moving cold air, i can install reverse fans upstairs and even vents that connect the end of the 2nd floor to the 1st in a loop like manner.

Thanks!! Begreen is right there is a first floor layout in the diagram. It’s very open area. The stairs to the 2nd floor face the potential insert opening and as you are in the 2nd floor, you can go right to a small room, straight to a large bathroom or left to a very large main bedroom which also has a very large studio further down.

The auto is for sensors and self stop if the room temperature reaches 80 degrees or starts when below 65 or say I want it to stop at 5 am and back on at 6 pm. Not sure it is realistic expectation but who knows what’s out there.The remote is for whatever functions I can get. On/off, vents, temp and what not.
 

bholler

Chimney sweep
Staff member
Jan 14, 2014
26,156
central pa
For distribution, I was told I can put fans running behind the stove in the direction of the stairs moving cold air, i can install reverse fans upstairs and even vents that connect the end of the 2nd floor to the 1st in a loop like manner.

Thanks!! Begreen is right there is a first floor layout in the diagram. It’s very open area. The stairs to the 2nd floor face the potential insert opening and as you are in the 2nd floor, you can go right to a small room, straight to a large bathroom or left to a very large main bedroom which also has a very large studio further down.

The auto is for sensors and self stop if the room temperature reaches 80 degrees or starts when below 65 or say I want it to stop at 5 am and back on at 6 pm. Not sure it is realistic expectation but who knows what’s out there.The remote is for whatever functions I can get. On/off, vents, temp and what not.
Self stop what when the room is to temp? There is no on off function on a woodstove
 
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heberthwp

New Member
Oct 26, 2021
9
Mountain Dale, NY
They are all good inserts with different features. There is some discussion in the current 'Talk me out of a Buck 91' thread that compares the Osburn and a little bit on the Summit. Both of them are very efficient, but just under the 75% HHV threshold.

Heating claims are relative to many variable factors like the house insulation, outside temp, wood quality, stove location, the operator, etc. The Buck 91 will easily provide a 12 hr burn, so will the Osburn 3500 or PE Summit. But at what outside temperature? As it gets colder outside, draft increases along with the house's heat losses. So a stove that can burn for 12 hrs in 30-40º weather may only burn for 8 or 6 hrs when it's 15º outside because it is being pushed harder for more heat to make up for the increase heat loss of the house. Thus a cat stove that can go for 24 hrs between refills when it's 50º outside, may need to be reloaded every 8 hrs when it's very cold out.

It could very well be that even with a big stove in that fireplace that the central heating system will kick in to supplement when it's cold out. That's not the end of the world, it's a big house, and running the primary heating system occasionally during a cold snap may stop pipes from freezing.
We just moved into this 1930’s house and the local weather is mountain like with a lot of underground water in the subfloor and a river across the street. The temperature in the winter could reach 15 in January and February with 8 days of rain and 4-5”, and up to 15” a month snow Dec-Feb and less than 10 h of daylight, wet, rain, snow and wind are the main winter hazards. Guessing very similar to Wash state but never been there in the winter. As this will be our first winter here and we come from the big apple we are terrified of what might be coming for us. We currently have oil heating and thermostat is set at 64 degrees. We don’t want to break the bank with oil prices
 

heberthwp

New Member
Oct 26, 2021
9
Mountain Dale, NY
Self stop what when the room is to temp? There is no on off function on a woodstove
Something was telling me that’s the case. Not sure what sales reps talk about when they say sensors and remotes and smart functions. We are just looking for the best we can get given our space and very importantly based on the peninsula dimensions as we understand inserts have to have minimum clearances and specs. Do we just focus on the size of the insert’s box in relation to the fireplace box? Should we ignore the plates that come with the inserts as they just go outside the box space? Do we need to build a wall around in the other two sides or just put plates from same material of the insert, or are there any other options or materials we can use?
 

begreen

Mooderator
Staff member
Nov 18, 2005
90,622
South Puget Sound, WA
We just moved into this 1930’s house and the local weather is mountain like with a lot of underground water in the subfloor and a river across the street. The temperature in the winter could reach 15 in January and February with 8 days of rain and 4-5”, and up to 15” a month snow Dec-Feb and less than 10 h of daylight, wet, rain, snow and wind are the main winter hazards. Guessing very similar to Wash state but never been there in the winter. As this will be our first winter here and we come from the big apple we are terrified of what might be coming for us. We currently have oil heating and thermostat is set at 64 degrees. We don’t want to break the bank with oil prices
I'm originally from NY and commuted up to Syracuse on 17 for a while. That's a nice area.
Getting truly seasoned wood could be a greater challenge than picking out and having an insert installed.
 
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begreen

Mooderator
Staff member
Nov 18, 2005
90,622
South Puget Sound, WA
Something was telling me that’s the case. Not sure what sales reps talk about when they say sensors and remotes and smart functions.
These are features of pellet and gas stoves.
Do we just focus on the size of the insert’s box in relation to the fireplace box? Should we ignore the plates that come with the inserts as they just go outside the box space?
If by plates, you mean the surround or finishing trim, then yes, you could do without them, though some stoves look much better with a surround. Same with having the sides and back of the fireplace enclosed. If money is tight you could leave it open as long as you don't mind seeing the black backside of the insert. The Osburn 3500 sounds like a good fit if this is the case.
 
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heberthwp

New Member
Oct 26, 2021
9
Mountain Dale, NY
These are features of pellet and gas stoves.

If by plates, you mean the surround or finishing trim, then yes, you could do without them, though some stoves look much better with a surround. Same with having the sides and back of the fireplace enclosed. If money is tight you could leave it open as long as you don't mind seeing the black backside of the insert. The Osburn 3500 sounds like a good fit if this is the case.
Thanks for educating me. I will check the discussion on the Buck 91 before making my mind. I guess I need to star buying seasoned wood.
 

heberthwp

New Member
Oct 26, 2021
9
Mountain Dale, NY
I am sight, just got my town permit issued. I have narrowed down between the Osburn 3500 and the Buck 91 both with blower included, however I do have some questions:

1. What's the difference between the Buck 91's Large and Small Bay Window Kit - Gold PO 910454G (Large), PO 810104G (Small)? Is it just a bigger plate for the same size side windows?
2. Other than a pre-insulated liner kit (6" Osburn: $1k / 8" Buck:$1.5k), what else do I need? Fire screen, Freshair Adapter, Offset Adaptor/FIxation System,,,
3. What's the difference between a Double-play and a Pre-insulated liner?
4. Any other heads-up?
 

MEngineer24

Member
Dec 6, 2020
108
WV
Thanks for educating me. I will check the discussion on the Buck 91 before making my mind. I guess I need to star buying seasoned wood.
Good luck with buying truly seasoned wood especially this time of year. If you can, get yourself a moisture meter so you can verify any wood you purchase as you need <20% moisture content for an EPA stove to function properly. The first couple years can be rough getting a truly seasoned stash of wood. This is our second year burning and it’s been a push to get to the point we are at with a shed full. Sun, wind and time are your friend along with a good moisture meter!
 
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john26

Minister of Fire
Oct 27, 2008
636
Wildwood MO
The nice thing about the Buck 91 is it can be used as a free standing stove or insert. The sides look better than most inserts available so you would not have to fabricate metal to cover it and since its going into a masonry fireplace you would not need the legs. The only other free standing stove I can think of that can also be an an insert is the Lopi Answer which would be too small for your application.
Also heating the bedrooms in a 2 story can be a real challenge. I tried fans on the floor, ceiling fans, bathroom exhaust fans and circulating with the HVAC system. Top of the stairs got warm not the bed rooms. On cold days mid 20's or less at night the bedrooms were in the low 60's. I use a remote thermostat now for my gas furnace.
 
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heberthwp

New Member
Oct 26, 2021
9
Mountain Dale, NY
Also heating the bedrooms in a 2 story can be a real challenge. I tried fans on the floor, ceiling fans, bathroom exhaust fans and circulating with the HVAC system. Top of the stairs got warm not the bed rooms. On cold days mid 20's or less at night the bedrooms were in the low 60's. I use a remote thermostat now for my gas furnace.
I was told I could install vents at the very end of the the second floor bedrooms that connect with the first floor and a vent to fully push and circulate the hot air clock-ways. My fireplace faces the stairs.
 

john26

Minister of Fire
Oct 27, 2008
636
Wildwood MO
I had thoughts of putting vents in the first floor ceiling through the floor to second floor but I am sure that would violate fire code for fire stops. I am installing a small wood furnace in the basement now tied to the ducts to hopefully heat the up stairs non the less its a good excuse for a 3rd stove.
 
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