That's an issue. They sure can be serious polluters. Right next to outdoor garbage burning sometimes.
EPA new wood stove requirements!
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I think they got egg on their face last time when the loophole for fireplaces opened up for the 35:1 stoves.
semipro
Minister of Fire
Just because they aren't heaters doesn't mean they aren't emitters. I'm pretty sure EPA has the regulatory authority to regulate them if they wanted to. What a quagmire though.
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Fireplaces, just like stoves, are going to have to be regulated locally. The EPA sets standards for sale of new stoves. Hard to set them and enforce them for the sale of bricks.
That's correct. I just looked up fireplace regulation in the US and it is all by local authority. The most aggressive policies appear in various cities/townships or areas in CA allowing only EPA phase 2 fireplaces to be installed in new construction. Some go further requiring it as a part of any major remodel.
http://www.epa.gov/burnwise/ordinances.html
http://www.epa.gov/burnwise/ordinances.html
Poindexter
Minister of Fire
Fireplaces are going to be included in the definition of solid fuel burning devices here locally (EPA non-attainment area for air quality) - almost definitely.
Public comment on the ordinance at the last borough assembly meeting took almost six hours. I stayed for the whole thing. Not one person stood up and said "no no don't regulate my fireplace", but the wood stove operators were out in big numbers.
Public comment on the ordinance at the last borough assembly meeting took almost six hours. I stayed for the whole thing. Not one person stood up and said "no no don't regulate my fireplace", but the wood stove operators were out in big numbers.
brant2000
Feeling the Heat
Don't get me wrong, I'm an advocate of advancing the technology. Just not sure it needs to be forced down anyone's throats. I see this as analogous to golf equipment...even the latest and greatest oversized, weighted, offset, adjustable, optimized driver in the world can be sliced by a bad golfer. Conversely, most pro's could probably use a 2x4 and put it in the fairway 75% of the time. Just like abilities apply here, I think the fuel quality and operation of any stove can be a bigger factor than some of it's design features.
Given the numbers of pre-EPA stoves still in operation, how long will the reduction in emmissions from these new stoves take to be noticable? And if it drives up the cost of a new stove to the point that someone with a smoke-dragon decides not to upgrade due to the cost how has it really benefitted anyone? Seems like it would be far more effective to find a way to get those smoke-dragons retired and replaced with EPA stoves than to keep ratcheting down the requirements for new production stoves.
Oldman47
Minister of Fire
You are missing the point sumpnz. Next up will be a ban on anything but the latest stoves. We might first get a requirement to meet present standards but the 2015 and 2020 standards will be next. Once the EPA starts to regulate something they really get into it and drive for optimum performance at any price. They don't have to pay the bill now do they?
Light in the Dark
Feeling the Heat
All good in my book. All modern stoves should be employing both catalytic and secondary burning operations. Not only for the environmental impact, but for the sheer increase in BTUs!
Once again, it's up to the states to enforce the new regs or not. They'll do that or not based on local conditions and politics. Remember, it was the states that sued the EPA into action. EPA phase 2 benefited us all with cleaner, more efficient heaters. Based on the Woodstove Decathalon in DC and the test lab work in Brookhaven, NY, I think we are going to see even better stoves come out in the next few years. Personally I like burning less wood and cleaner and will likely consider one of the new crop of stoves once the dust settles.
MishMouse
Minister of Fire
Looking at what some manufactures are already doing by creating hybrid stoves to increase BTU's and decrease pollution shows that they are already preparing for the new regulations. As for those who have been sitting on their hands since the late 80's and not putting money into R&D to create a less polluting stove, they need to get busy or be crushed by the ones who did. No manufacture can honestly say that they did not see this coming, though I know a lot of them are hoping that the next president loosens the rope.
Oldman47
Minister of Fire
In the entire life of the EPA I have never seen them take a step back. With the auto industry I have seen them extend a deadline when compliance was impossible but for wood stoves many today already meet 2020 standards so that will not happen.
Yes. and we should all be driving a Prius not only because of the environment, but for the sheer increase in MPG.
Oldman47
Minister of Fire
That is not a change in their intent, it is a recognition that less fuel is being burned so less alcohol is needed to meet their intended percentage. I never said they would ignore the real world.
Plow Boy
Feeling the Heat
I agree with begreen, clean air is important to all of us. We just have to make sure the government balances air quaility with the need for people to stay warm. I hope they offer some incentives when they push out the the regs. maybe we will all get a big discount on a new cleaner stove.
The greatest resistance seems to be coming from the international stove mfgs, especially Jotul. That's understandable. It's costly for them to have to make market specific stoves. I expect to see the changes coming first in their Maine made stoves, the F45, F50 and F55. Changing a cast iron stove is a bigger challenge. Hopefully they can go back and adapt some of the F8 and F12 cat technology to the F400 and F600.
j7art2
Minister of Fire
Have you used a stove with a catalytic converter? There's a reason they don't make many anymore...
northwinds
Minister of Fire
I will give up my Isle Royale when they peel my old dead fingers from around it. 
I didn't read the whole thread, but are these regs applicable to outdoor wood furnaces? There are still a ton of those around here, one less than 100 yards away from my house.
I didn't read the whole thread, but are these regs applicable to outdoor wood furnaces? There are still a ton of those around here, one less than 100 yards away from my house.
You're predicating this position on the belief that the 7.5 grams/hour federal standard, or even the 4.5 grams/hour Washington standard that 2015-2019 interim rule is based on is unreasonable.
I tentatively support the 4.5 g/hour interim level. The 2 g/hour 2020 rule will add disproportionate cost to the average stove, however.
You shouldn't lump all catalytic stoves in one bunch. There are many who are very happy with there cat and hybrid stoves.Have you used a stove with a catalytic converter? There's a reason they don't make many anymore...
We are living in interesting times as far as wood stove technology. as a consumer with no skin in the game so to speak, I think we will all benefit. I know there is NO WAY I would go back to the old smoke dragon in my home and hope there's a stove made in the next twenty years that will make me say the same about the BK I'm running now.
Oldman47
Minister of Fire
Had to look that one up. Interesting.
Very good odds that it will work, anytime, anywhere.
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