13nc or 30 nc to heat 1500sqft southeast oklahoma

[Silenced38]

Hi. Im new to the site but have been reading post here for some time. I am not new to burning wood but i am new to any modern epa stove. I have a 1500 sqft ranch in southeast oklahoma. Its insulated fairly well. The walls are 4" figerglass and 6" blow in ceiling. Ive been reading here and have decide on either an 13 nc or 30 nc. I like the 30 for bigger fire box and easier to load. (N/S). The stove will be located almost dead center of the house. Between the living room and kitchen. But am afraid thats it too much for my house and climate. I am currently heating with propane and an old box wood cast iron. With the crazy price of propane this year the wood has become primary heat. Any thoughts or suggestions would be greatly appreciated. Thanks

 

[swenny]

38.. i got a 13 this winter, heating 1000 sq ft and it'll do it but on those windy 10-15 degree nights it needed to be reloaded every 4 hours. Don't imagine your winters are quite as bad down there but i would go with the 30...

 

[Silenced38]

Thanks swenny. Im concerned about not getting an over nite burn. Dont want to gave to relight ever morning. I like the burn times i read others here are getting with the 30. It gets below 32 for about 60 days days during the winter. Down in the teens at night very rarely below 0. Ive read some these stoves running a temp of 700. Thats seems crazy hot. Thanks agin.

 

[Dix]

The 13 is going to give you best a 5 - 6 hour burn, maxed out with primo fire wood. It's rated for 1,800 SF, but burn tie is important. I love my 13, but I know it's limitations.

You can build a smaller fire in a big box, but not the other way around.

Welcome to the forums !!

 

[BrotherBart]

Ive read some these stoves running a temp of 700.

That is where it is gonna run for awhile when you load that overnight load on coals. Put a TV in the garage.

 

[Silenced38]

Thanks hustle. Maybe someone with a 30 can give me an ideal about its low burn characteristics.

 

[Silenced38]

Thats what im afraid of BB. My propane heater is 26000 btus. When the house is warm (75) it may only come on about 15 to 20 minutes an hour. So i figure thats about 12000 btus an hour. After the house is warm. We dont have the hard winters usually but the shoulder season runs awhile.

 

[BrotherBart]

A half load in the 30 burns for a long time too. Load a half load to the back and it burns long because the air path to the back is pretty darn long. And the stove puts off heat for a long time after the fire dies down with that 450 pounds of steel and bricks heated up.

 

[Dix]

Thanks swenny. Im concerned about not getting an over nite burn. Dont want to gave to relight ever morning. I like the burn times i read others here are getting with the 30. It gets below 32 for about 60 days days during the winter. Down in the teens at night very rarely below 0. Ive read some these stoves running a temp of 700. Thats seems crazy hot. Thanks agin.

Go with the 30, you wont be disappointed.

IMHO.

 

[BobUrban]

The 30 provides so much more benefit for you at roughly the same price. I burn 1/2 and partial loads often in the shoulder season w/o any problems and have 1600sq'

When I was purchasing the new stove I ask the same question and I am so glad I got the "same answer"!

You can always open a window when it gets too hot - the only option is to fire up the propane when it is too cold and on cold nights your furnace will be waking you - argg! There is a reason they call it Pro "Pain"!

 

[Grisu]

Thats what im afraid of BB. My propane heater is 26000 btus. When the house is warm (75) it may only come on about 15 to 20 minutes an hour. So i figure thats about 12000 btus an hour. After the house is warm. We dont have the hard winters usually but the shoulder season runs awhile.

If that is your heating load you really won't need much of a stove. You can get 12,000 BTUs an hour from approx. 1 cu ft of hardwood burned over 8 hours. It almost sounds you would be a good candidate for a catalytic stove like the Woodstock Fireview or one of the Blazeking 30 series or their Princess model. Those stoves will allow you a more controllable but still clean burn. However, they will come with a higher price tag than the NC-13/30. Please be also aware that the NC-30 needs a hearth of R1.5. If you want to build your own, here is list of suitable materials: (broken link removed)

Something easier regarding the hearth and maybe more appropriate for your heating needs would be a medium-size stove. Englander has a new one in the pipeline which may be coming out some time this year. Here is a picture and some more info: https://www.hearth.com/talk/threads...6-4-7-on-the-mall.112056/page-12#post-1577545
The hearth should be ember protection only and the cost is still less than $1000. However, that's all preliminary info and no definitive word yet as to when we will see it in stores.

 

[begreen]

The new Englander Madison has an ember -protection-only hearth requirement, but it is also a 3 cu ft stove. Another stove to consider might be the PE True North TN19. It's 2 cu ft, has an EPO hearth requirement and under $1000.

another shot of the Madison:
https://www.hearth.com/talk/threads/hpb-expo-news.125755/#post-1689020

PE TN 19:
(broken link removed to http://pacificenergy.net/products/wood/fireplaces-2/truenorth/)

 

[Grisu]

Maybe stoveguy can chime in when the 2.45 cu ft stove is supposed to come out. He was actually unsure whether the picture shows the Madison or the smaller stove:
https://www.hearth.com/talk/threads/hpb-expo-news.125755/#post-1689340

The PE True North is a good suggestion; maybe the Drolet 1800 Escape would be another cost-sensitive option.

 

[Silenced38]

Thanks for the info. I was looking at a blaze king princess. Got a price of $2700 out the door. But unfortunenatly i have twin graduating and going to collage next year. So that has put the princess out of my buget for a couple years. I will look at the other stoves yall have suggested. This why i came to yall for the info. Thanks

 

[Silenced38]

Im still leaning toward the 30. But hoping to get some more input. Thanks

 

[Grisu]

How much propane are you using during the coldest winter month? Any year when you did not use the stove (much) and you could estimate from the propane use how much heat you will need?

 

[Silenced38]

Some where around 100 gallons. But the last 5 years ive been burning wood as supplement. So its hard to narrow that down. I think back january i burnt about 100 gallon plus wood when i was home. But thats a cast iron box wood thats prolly loses 70% of the heat up the flue.

 

[Grisu]

100 gl propane, that's 9.2 million BTU. If your propane heater is 80% efficient, you got 7.4 mill. BTU. One cu ft of average hardwood burned in a stove with 66% efficiency is roughly 100,000 BTU. Thus, you would have needed 74 cu ft of wood or about 2.5 cu ft per day. If you assume the wood stove provided another half of your heat, you would need 5 cu ft of wood per day. (Or you estimate how many cu ft you used and assume ~50,000 BTU per cu ft.) If you can load the stove only 2 times a day, a firebox in the range of 2.5 to 3 cu ft would have been sufficient for you this (rather cold) winter. At a more realistic 3 loadings, 2 to 2.5 cu ft would be sufficient. Those numbers also depend on your wood supply. I assumed hardwood at 20 million BTU per cord. Many softwoods are lower, between 13 to 15 mill. BTU, which would make a larger firebox more attractive.

To make it short: The NC-30 is a great stove especially at that price and would have gotten you easily during that last, really cold January. However, you may need to run it with smaller fires and frequent start-ups during most of the other winter months. It's certainly possible, just not the most efficient and convenient way of running a wood stove, IMHO. Make sure you are using seasoned wood with a moisture content of less than 20% and check your chimney regularly especially during the first year.

 

[Silenced38]

Well since you gona make me do the math. I burned 2.2 mil btus of wood while i was home. I add that to the 9.2 mil btus of gas. Thats 11.4 mil btus for january. Unless i did the math wrong that works out to 1.8 ricks of firewood. I burn white oak and hickory. At a cost of $80 instead of the $4 a gallon propane at that time. That gives me a heat load of around 15k per hour. So i guess the question is what are my stove choices? Thats can put good heat to warm the house up and the be dampened down to around 15k per hour to maintain. Thanks

 

[Silenced38]

Ok we have had an unusual cold snap. Its 40* outside and was 54* inside. I got a temp probe. Light the wood stove its running from 450 to 650 on the sides and 290 on the top. The sides are 14" tall by 24" long. Been running like this for an hour to bring the temp up 5 degrees. I know that with about the same temps. If i keep it running like it is, all day, it will get the house to 70. And keep it there. So what im say here is it putting out alot more heat than i thought. So prolly a 30 isnt going to be too much most of the time.

 

[Grisu]

Assuming 2 ricks are 2/3 of a cord that is 80 cu ft of wood. Oak and hickory have about 27 mBTU per cord, that's 18 mBTU you burned. At 33% efficiency for an old "smoke dragon" you got 6 mBTU of heat from wood in January. That's relatively close to my assumption that half of your heat was coming from wood. On the other hand, I was assuming more average hardwood, not some high BTU one like oak and hickory. Thus, you may need to burn a bit less than 5 cu ft per day.

Thats can put good heat to warm the house up and the be dampened down to around 15k per hour to maintain.

To get a steady output of 15,000 BTU/hour: Let's assume a realistic heating time of 10 hours for a non-catalytic stove. That puts it at 150,000 BTU total; with warm-up maybe 200,000 BTU. For average hardwood that would be about 2 cu ft burned over that time. Even a bit less for oak and hickory. If that is your heating load, you will rarely fill a 3 cu ft stove up to capacity. However, if you are not going to buy a catalytic stove you would probably benefit from the large thermal mass a bigger stove will provide. In the end, you have to be comfortable with your decision and to be able to fit the stove in your budget.

 

[Silenced38]

Thanks to everyone for the info. And a special thanks to Grisu. For his help. I just hadn't looked at it that way. It looks like in order to maintain a comfortable even temp. Im going to have to revisit the cat stove issue. If not ill just have to burn smaller fires and relight more often. One more question tho. What are y'all's thoughts on the PE super 27. It appears to be a mid sized box 2.5 ft. With decent low burn? Would this be more suited to my situation.?
Thanks again.

 

[begreen]

The PE Super is a great stove. It's unique linked secondary control provides good long burn times. I didn't suggest it because your original query was for less expensive stoves. It is a 2 cu ft stove with a unique and durable baffle/secondary manifold system. There are lots of satisfied owners of this stove. My next door neighbor has the fancier version, the Spectrum and loves it.

 

[Silenced38]

Well begreen, thats my fault for not thinking my question thru. I was going on the good reviews that the englanders receive here. And they seem like a good value. But not ever tool works for ever job. I just have to find the right one for my situation. If cost more thats better than to be unhappy with it for years.
Thanks

 

[Grisu]

Well begreen, thats my fault for not thinking my question thru. I was going on the good reviews that the englanders receive here. And they seem like a good value. But not ever tool works for ever job. I just have to find the right one for my situation. If cost more thats better than to be unhappy with it for years.
Thanks

You don't really need to be unhappy with the NC-30 for years. You could buy it now on sale for ~$800 shipped, use it one winter and if you don't like it, sell it for just a small loss. (I am sure in the fall you will get easily $500+ for an almost new stove) Another option would be to check for some bargain floor models right now or keep an eye out for a used stove.

Regarding the PE Super: Great stove. I have the insert version and could not be happier. I heat ~1300 sqft with it down to about single digits outside temps; then I need to supplement some heat. However, I would not call my house well insulated either. Noticeable heat up to 8 hrs in my case but I don't have oak or hickory. Coals for an easy reload between 10 to 12 hours. Nevertheless, as with any non-cat stove: The Super is not designed to be burned "low". It will reach the temp necessary to cleanly burn the wood which usually means at least 500 F stovetop. Thus, it will churn out quite a bit of heat early on with stovetop temps at 600 F to 700 F and then slowly taper down to about 300 F, when most people like to reload. Soapstone or cast-iron stoves will moderate those temp swings a bit but for a real low burn you will need a cat stove or build smaller fires.