2018-19 Blaze King Performance Thread Part 1 (Everything BK)

[drhiii]

Can you let us know how you start a fire and what your process is with engaging the cat and thermostat management?

Also, have you disconnected the OAK and tried it?

Tx for your reply. Yes, how do I start a fire?

At this point, Dec 2018, will load a mix of Ponderosa or lodgepole pine and pinon pine. Pinon is excellent wood. Beautifully sweet smelling, high BTU, low ash, great wood. My stores measure from 5% to 11% moisture content. Will create a box of pinon with towards the door, open. Will build up the box with the Ponderosa or lodgepole splits. I always leave a couple inches along the rear of the firebox to allow for easy circulation. I then complete the build by placing some pinon splits along the sides of the box. Will leave at least 6-8" of space in the front of the firebox. For circulation, and to prevent any splits from falling onto the glass.

Will place a 1/2 block of composite firestarter in the middle of the 'box', and pad it with dry chips. Pinon preferrable. As one can hold a fire source on the pinon wood and it will catch and go. It is a wonderful wood type for starting, and sustaining a fire.

Bypass plate open. Air flow open 100%. Light the composite 1/2 block and go. Keep the door cracked until a fire begins to take off. Often times I close the door because this works so well, the wood is so wonderfully available, I do not need to keep the door cracked. Draft is always A+... so don't need the door cracked. So is a 50-50 thing.

Once the fire takes off, it takes 5-7 minutes from the start to get a pretty good involvement. I close the door it it isn't already closed and dial back the air flow about 25%. And let the wood char for say 10-15 minutes. The cat temps come up during this time. So approx 20+ minutes from the start, the cat temps are ready to engage. I will close the damper and dial the air flow back to about 50%. It takes less than 5 minutes more for the temps to fully engage the cat. It is easily glowing red.

Because of the systemic smoke smell, I can only dial the the air flow back to just before it "clicks". I have read others do same. I go through the same ritual each time. My problem is, because I have not been able to figure out the smoke smell emission into the room problem, I cannot dial the air flow back to a simple sustained flow. The moment one experiences the "click" on the air flow dial, smoke smell is released into the room. It takes less than 5 seconds. Therefore, I cannot run the stove in a sustained more because I have to have a reasonable fire flame to keep the smoke smell at a minimum.

But I cannot run in this mode either because while the smoke smell is always being released into the house, even tho I can minimize the smell, if I keep the cat engaged, eventually the wood burns down and when it reaches say 80% depleted, the fire flame diminishes and then the stove emits the highest level of smoke emission. Meaning, I can't run the stove for more than 5-6 hours because I have to keep a flame going, and when the flames stop, I get hammered. I cannot for instance sleep, because I have to tend to the fire and either add more wood (which means I am tearing through a lot of wood unfortunately), or, I have to forget the the cat and run the stove and keep the bypass open constantly, to prevent the smoke smell from overwhelming.

I am for all intents having to run the stove like a smoke dragon, bypass open, while I try and figure out this smoke smell emission problem.

And yes, I have run with and without the OAK engaged. I am well familiar with the air pressures of this 2 story house. So I have to manage pathways of air in the house to spirit the smoke smell up and out second story windows. More to the point, when I run the stove without the OAK connected, with air coming from the room, with windows open, it runs the same as when the OAK is connected. No, I have not tested with a Manometer but have been asked to run this test. Never needed to as the draft and air flow across 3 stoves has been quite successful for 25 years. Will run this test yes... so long answer is OAK or no OAK, stove hums along dandy fine. I initially had some puffing but this was due to a spate of heavy creosote buildup very fast when burning silver maple. It created a real mess. I swept the flue and stove. The pipes are pristine. I can open the door and compose a symphony and not have an iota of back puffing.

Way too many words... but my typing fingers ran away with detail. A shorter answer would be I can from start to engaging the cat... be 20+ minutes tops. I just cannot keep the cat engaged due to smoke smell emission.

 

[drhiii]

Sir, tx for your energy and detailed response.

Yes, pics. I didn't post pics earlier as a replacement door was called for, so waited for its arrival and hope for overcoming the system smoke smell problem. It did not solve the issue. So yes, will generate pics. But...

... the more interesting pics may come from the inside of the door. Why? On the original door, the issues were not as visible as on the replacement door. Have been asked and was initiating anyway, measurements. On the new door, the gasket was not centered on the stove opening. In fact, it is significantly off. From the beginning, Oct, when I was having this smoke smell, I went to a series of solutions learned from past experience. Incl washers to alter the door height. Several changes to washer going back 3 months had no effect. However, with this new door, it was visibly apparent the gasket was no where near centered. I have 4 gaskets now raising the height of the door and it is still not quite centered on the gasket.

I was asked to make measurements which is what I was engaging in anyway. To my surprise, then not.. the door is not only by default, meaning without washers, over 1/4" low if using the gasket centeredness as a gauge. And I have also discovered, the door is tilted. It is not squared. It is just about 3/16" higher on the right side than the left hinge side. The smoke smell emission side.

I should have done measurements before this, but this is happening with the last week. As said, was looking to a replacement door to hopefully solve what I thought, was my faulty gasket replacements. I do not believe my work was faulty. But these new measurements show the door is not just hanging low, quite low, and 4 washers later it is still not quite centered, the door is also tilted. Pics will show that the crease in the gasket is markedly shallow on the hinge side, which make me muse that not only is the door hanging low by default, and the door is tilted... I wonder if the depth of the door is also off. A long way of saying, 2 dimensions are measurably off, and once I perform more measurements, the 3rd dimension... depth.. off too?

Would absolutely explain the smoke smell emission from this precise location. On this new replacement door, it is visible, the aberration.

I have not worked on this over the Xmas days, and I have been asked to answer some questions and perform some specific measurements by BK. But may as well pose... if the 3 dimensions are skewed, off, and this is controlled by the welded hinges, then what? Even with 4 washers, the gasket is not nesting evenly, and while it has reduced the smoke smell by approx 50%, how can one overcome a too low, and tilted, and possibly incorrect depth all controlled by welded hinges? In the effort to gain the top horizontal gasket to be centered, the bottom horizontal gasket is being pulled out of centeredness. I will keep trying, but I am not sure given the tilted door aspect, if I can flush the top of the door gasket, and the bottom as well. I will know more in a couple days, but it appears it is THAT much out of alignment. 4 washers later, and it is still not centered.

I very much appreciate your lengthy response and attention to ideas. Yes, it has been driving me nuts. Will refrain from the "been doing this for 40 years" spiel, but that is part of my frustration indeed. I too am a crazy geek when it comes to all l things wood stove, chainsaws, and especially wood. Ok, will bore some folks with the following... but I put myself through a very expensive college cutting and splitting firewood. So fer sure... I am a crazy nerd when it comes to this. Which is why this has been perplexing. If I had performed measurements a couple months ago, it would have revealed this significant aberrations. Will come at this in a couple days.. pics and more measurements. Would like to see a way to a solution, but am also having to be realistic and may have to cut my losses and move on. I want to love the stove, but... will see if I can hang in there a little longer. The lengthy messages are a measure of obsessing about it, and I need to stop that.

Your response does supply some energy to keep at it a little longer. Much appreciated.

Oh, and yes... the flue pipes, all 26' give or take, are pristine. As mentioned earlier, I can open the door on the BKP and get a masters degree without any back puffing. Had some in the beginning, but due to invoking a severe creosote issue. Since resolved.

Hello dr, I also have a princess just a bit north if you. About 6 years now on a 12’ chimney. I’ve worn out cats and replaced door gaskets. Burning Douglas fir mostly in a relatively warm climate.

I’ve been reading and you seem to really be making an effort. Everything you tell us sounds to be spot on but you still smell smoke from the hinge side of the door. Usually when this happens there is something obvious causing the problem that is not apparent in the written description.

I think you’ve beaten the heck out of the door seal. It’s tight, passes the dollar bill test. Let’s move on.

The chimney is clean and you either have no screen on top or you verified that it is spotless.

Now let’s talk about your chimney. The princess requires 15’ of “effective” stack height at sea level. That’s all vertical. You report a very tall chimney with only a minor bend which should make up for your elevation.

At this point we need some photos. We need to see the interior black pipe from stove to ceiling and then an outside photo of the roof with the stack. It’s pretty easy to post photos on the forum right from your phone or your computer. You can probably even email pics if you can’t post them. Don’t worry, we’re not crazies, just stove nerds.

You’re going to love the princess once we get the issue fixed.

Here’s mine.

 

[Alpine1]

Merry Christmas to all forum members!

 

[jetsam]

Sir, tx for your energy and detailed response.

Yes, pics. I didn't post pics earlier as a replacement door was called for, so waited for its arrival and hope for overcoming the system smoke smell problem. It did not solve the issue. So yes, will generate pics. But...

... the more interesting pics may come from the inside of the door. Why? On the original door, the issues were not as visible as on the replacement door. Have been asked and was initiating anyway, measurements. On the new door, the gasket was not centered on the stove opening. In fact, it is significantly off. From the beginning, Oct, when I was having this smoke smell, I went to a series of solutions learned from past experience. Incl washers to alter the door height. Several changes to washer going back 3 months had no effect. However, with this new door, it was visibly apparent the gasket was no where near centered. I have 4 gaskets now raising the height of the door and it is still not quite centered on the gasket.

I was asked to make measurements which is what I was engaging in anyway. To my surprise, then not.. the door is not only by default, meaning without washers, over 1/4" low if using the gasket centeredness as a gauge. And I have also discovered, the door is tilted. It is not squared. It is just about 3/16" higher on the right side than the left hinge side. The smoke smell emission side.

I should have done measurements before this, but this is happening with the last week. As said, was looking to a replacement door to hopefully solve what I thought, was my faulty gasket replacements. I do not believe my work was faulty. But these new measurements show the door is not just hanging low, quite low, and 4 washers later it is still not quite centered, the door is also tilted. Pics will show that the crease in the gasket is markedly shallow on the hinge side, which make me muse that not only is the door hanging low by default, and the door is tilted... I wonder if the depth of the door is also off. A long way of saying, 2 dimensions are measurably off, and once I perform more measurements, the 3rd dimension... depth.. off too?

Would absolutely explain the smoke smell emission from this precise location. On this new replacement door, it is visible, the aberration.

I have not worked on this over the Xmas days, and I have been asked to answer some questions and perform some specific measurements by BK. But may as well pose... if the 3 dimensions are skewed, off, and this is controlled by the welded hinges, then what? Even with 4 washers, the gasket is not nesting evenly, and while it has reduced the smoke smell by approx 50%, how can one overcome a too low, and tilted, and possibly incorrect depth all controlled by welded hinges? In the effort to gain the top horizontal gasket to be centered, the bottom horizontal gasket is being pulled out of centeredness. I will keep trying, but I am not sure given the tilted door aspect, if I can flush the top of the door gasket, and the bottom as well. I will know more in a couple days, but it appears it is THAT much out of alignment. 4 washers later, and it is still not centered.

I very much appreciate your lengthy response and attention to ideas. Yes, it has been driving me nuts. Will refrain from the "been doing this for 40 years" spiel, but that is part of my frustration indeed. I too am a crazy geek when it comes to all l things wood stove, chainsaws, and especially wood. Ok, will bore some folks with the following... but I put myself through a very expensive college cutting and splitting firewood. So fer sure... I am a crazy nerd when it comes to this. Which is why this has been perplexing. If I had performed measurements a couple months ago, it would have revealed this significant aberrations. Will come at this in a couple days.. pics and more measurements. Would like to see a way to a solution, but am also having to be realistic and may have to cut my losses and move on. I want to love the stove, but... will see if I can hang in there a little longer. The lengthy messages are a measure of obsessing about it, and I need to stop that.

Your response does supply some energy to keep at it a little longer. Much appreciated.

Oh, and yes... the flue pipes, all 26' give or take, are pristine. As mentioned earlier, I can open the door on the BKP and get a masters degree without any back puffing. Had some in the beginning, but due to invoking a severe creosote issue. Since resolved.

As a fellow geek, I'm telling you to take a step back from all that and look at the whole system, and not just the part that smells funny.

The stove door is in between your room and a system that should be under significant negative pressure, especially with your tall flue. A perfect seal and a very poor seal should both result in zero gasses flowing from the firebox to the room.

Maybe you do have smoke coming through the gasket, but I put it to you that it is most likely neither the door's fault nor the gasket's fault. For smoke to come out there, you need a reversal of normal pressure, whether the gasket is perfect or completely missing.

Ah, but what about a quirk in stove design that creates an odd eddy of airflow that pushes air through that bit of gasket? I don't think so, because that stove has so many users here. (I myself have the insert flavor.)

Search the forum for "bk princess" and "door gasket" and you will find people with gasket problems, but you won't find any who have smoke coming through the gasket. Their problem is that they can't turn the stove down properly because too much air is flowing in the other direction.

Nothing is impossible, but I think that you are definitely chasing the improbable by trying to perfect the door gasket's seal.

 

[moresnow]

Will create a box of pinon with towards the door, open. Will build up the box with the Ponderosa or lodgepole splits. I always leave a couple inches along the rear of the firebox to allow for easy circulation. I then complete the build by placing some pinon splits along the sides of the box. Will leave at least 6-8" of space in the front of the firebox. For circulation, and to prevent any splits from falling onto the glass.

Just a thought or two this XMas AM. Chatting on Hearth beats opening another pack of socks/undies.
Anyway. Have you considered a standard loading of N/S splits that go from the back to the front?
6"-8" of space in front is unnecessary and not common for most here. No need to build a box shape of splits? Leaving any space in the rear is the same. Try a complete N/S load without all the buffer areas/directions. No worries about rolling splits hitting the glass with a N/S load. I keep my splits near the front and don't worry where they end up in the back if they happen to be a tad short. If there is enough room in the back Ill set a E/W split back there to completely fill the box. Tuck your starter in where you can get it. I like it tucked in the middle if possible.

Once the fire takes off, it takes 5-7 minutes from the start to get a pretty good involvement. I close the door it it isn't already closed and dial back the air flow about 25%. And let the wood char for say 10-15 minutes. The cat temps come up during this time. So approx 20+ minutes from the start, the cat temps are ready to engage. I will close the damper and dial the air flow back to about 50%. It takes less than 5 minutes more for the temps to fully engage the cat. It is easily glowing red.

Why are you dialing back air 25% at good fire involvement? Let that sucker burn WO.

Why are you closing the damper and immediately cutting air 50%? No good. Close the damper and let it rip to attain your char. I burn WO on a freshly closed damper for 15-30 minutes. This is important for my setup to be sure there is no smell when I do finally turn it down. I run my STT up to 600 or better commonly before turning the air down. Then we close her down in a step or two and its good to go. Maybe give this a shot and let us know how it goes.

Sounds to me like you may be simply turning down the air to early. As much time as these stoves burn low/slow a lengthy initial high burn seems to be a good idea anyway. Now where's that egg nog!

 

[Diabel]

I do pretty much exactly what moresnow does. And this thread taught me this procedure. Btw zero smoke smell from the Princess.

 

[jetsam]

Just a thought or two this XMas AM. Chatting on Hearth beats opening another pack of socks/undies.
Anyway. Have you considered a standard loading of N/S splits that go from the back to the front?
6"-8" of space in front is unnecessary and not common for most here. No need to build a box shape of splits? Leaving any space in the rear is the same. Try a complete N/S load without all the buffer areas/directions. No worries about rolling splits hitting the glass with a N/S load. I keep my splits near the front and don't worry where they end up in the back if they happen to be a tad short. If there is enough room in the back Ill set a E/W split back there to completely fill the box. Tuck your starter in where you can get it. I like it tucked in the middle if possible.




Why are you dialing back air 25% at good fire involvement? Let that sucker burn WO.

Why are you closing the damper and immediately cutting air 50%? No good. Close the damper and let it rip to attain your char. I burn WO on a freshly closed damper for 15-30 minutes. This is important for my setup to be sure there is no smell when I do finally turn it down. I run my STT up to 600 or better commonly before turning the air down. Then we close her down in a step or two and its good to go. Maybe give this a shot and let us know how it goes.

Sounds to me like you may be simply turning down the air to early. As much time as these stoves burn low/slow a lengthy initial high burn seems to be a good idea anyway. Now where's that egg nog!

I very often turn my princess down to Black Box without any high burn, let alone 15 minutes plus. Throw the wood on the coals, door, bypass, done. No funny smells, and I have a much shorter stack.

 

[steve62]

I very often turn my princess down to Black Box without any high burn, let alone 15 minutes plus. Throw the wood on the coals, door, bypass, done. No funny smells, and I have a much shorter stack.

I think the idea of running it wide open for awhile is to clear out some of the creosote. I run mine for 30 mins every morning with door closed and bypass open.

 

[jetsam]

I think the idea of running it wide open for awhile is to clear out some of the creosote. I run mine for 30 mins every morning with door closed and bypass open.

I'm not saying that running it on high for a while is a poor idea; I'm saying that loading fresh wood onto a bed of coals and turning it down immediately does not cause a smoke smell in the house (unless you suddenly yank the door open, which creates momentary pressure there).

 

[lsucet]

I think the idea of running it wide open for awhile is to clear out some of the creosote. I run mine for 30 mins every morning with door closed and bypass open.

I don't know the type of stove you have, but for sure is a cat stove. I really don't think is a good idea to run it with bypass open for that long.

 

[steve62]

I don't know the type of stove you have, but for sure is a cat stove. I really don't think is a good idea to run it with bypass open for that long.

It is a king classic

 

[drhiii]

top

Just a thought or two this XMas AM. Chatting on Hearth beats opening another pack of socks/undies.
Anyway. Have you considered a standard loading of N/S splits that go from the back to the front?
6"-8" of space in front is unnecessary and not common for most here. No need to build a box shape of splits? Leaving any space in the rear is the same. Try a complete N/S load without all the buffer areas/directions. No worries about rolling splits hitting the glass with a N/S load. I keep my splits near the front and don't worry where they end up in the back if they happen to be a tad short. If there is enough room in the back Ill set a E/W split back there to completely fill the box. Tuck your starter in where you can get it. I like it tucked in the middle if possible.

Why are you dialing back air 25% at good fire involvement? Let that sucker burn WO.

Why are you closing the damper and immediately cutting air 50%? No good. Close the damper and let it rip to attain your char. I burn WO on a freshly closed damper for 15-30 minutes. This is important for my setup to be sure there is no smell when I do finally turn it down. I run my STT up to 600 or better commonly before turning the air down. Then we close her down in a step or two and its good to go. Maybe give this a shot and let us know how it goes.

Sounds to me like you may be simply turning down the air to early. As much time as these stoves burn low/slow a lengthy initial high burn seems to be a good idea anyway. Now where's that egg nog!

I didn't explain it very well. Should have used temps. The box is what you say. A small centered spot to start a fire. I load splits N/S on top of this. Comprises 80% of the load, these N/S splits.

On temps, instead of time, I let the fire burn wide open and watch the flue therm located 9" above the stove. When it reaches 500 degrees, or the red line, I will start to back off the air flow. Not turning the air flow down too soon. The firebox at this time has been fully involved for at least 10 minutes, more mebbe.

Tx for the response on Xmas morning. Egg nog later this afternoon here.

 

[drhiii]

top

As a fellow geek, I'm telling you to take a step back from all that and look at the whole system, and not just the part that smells funny.

The stove door is in between your room and a system that should be under significant negative pressure, especially with your tall flue. A perfect seal and a very poor seal should both result in zero gasses flowing from the firebox to the room.

Maybe you do have smoke coming through the gasket, but I put it to you that it is most likely neither the door's fault nor the gasket's fault. For smoke to come out there, you need a reversal of normal pressure, whether the gasket is perfect or completely missing.

Ah, but what about a quirk in stove design that creates an odd eddy of airflow that pushes air through that bit of gasket? I don't think so, because that stove has so many users here. (I myself have the insert flavor.)

Search the forum for "bk princess" and "door gasket" and you will find people with gasket problems, but you won't find any who have smoke coming through the gasket. Their problem is that they can't turn the stove down properly because too much air is flowing in the other direction.

Nothing is impossible, but I think that you are definitely chasing the improbable by trying to perfect the door gasket's seal.

Tx for the response. Yes, have had a litany of configurations to test against negative pressure. OAK installed v bypassed (as in ground floor air), windows open on ground floor, second story, doors open v closed, adding/subtracting 4’ section of flue pipe, bypass open, bypass closed… lots of configurations. Same no matter what. Perplexing.

And I need to clarify.. it is smoke smell. Not visible to the eye smoke. I can smell it quickly, and my wife is highly susceptible to this. Has to go to another part of the house while I open all the windows and doors to clear it out.

As I mentioned last eve.. initiated measurements and come to find the door is by default hanging low, 1/4” to 1/3” (have 4 washers now utilized, and the gasket is still not centered on top), the door is tilted by 3/16”, and have not measured yet the depth of the door but wonder if this third dimension is also off.

 

[kf6hap]

The stove door is in between your room and a system that should be under significant negative pressure, especially with your tall flue. A perfect seal and a very poor seal should both result in zero gasses flowing from the firebox to the room.

Significant negative pressure does NOT mean smoke smell from the firebox can't get out!

This is the very confounding aspect of the smoke smell issue! This is the reason why it took a year to figure out. It made no sense.

Door sealing is the problem. drhiii, ever notice you never see smoke? Hinge side worse? This is one strange aspect of the smoke smell issue.

Yes, the door might not be perfectly in alignment but I think even if it were aligned the smoke smell issue will still remain. I went through this. The fix was a larger diameter gasket. Your stove is presenting the exact same symptoms mine had.

I took Magnehelic readings on my stove trying to analyze the smoke smell issue. The stove was always in a very good negative. Never came up with a fix. I added 4' of pipe and sleeved it to 6" with SS insulated liner (it was 8"). Total of 17'. The smoke still got out. Only after the gasket was enlarged did the problem go away.

Somehow, due to air turbulence in the firebox, the smoke smell is blown through the gasket. The gasket is porous, like steel wool. The gasket filters out the visible particulates but the odorous gasses seep through and they can be quite strong strong, especially near the ceiling.

 

[drhiii]

Significant negative pressure does NOT mean smoke smell from the firebox can't get out!

This is the very confounding aspect of the smoke smell issue! This is the reason why it took a year to figure out. It made no sense.

Door sealing is the problem. drhiii, ever notice you never see smoke? Hinge side worse? This is one strange aspect of the smoke smell issue.

Yes, the door might not be perfectly in alignment but I think even if it were aligned the smoke smell issue will still remain. I went through this. The fix was a larger diameter gasket. Your stove is presenting the exact same symptoms mine had.

I took Magnehelic readings on my stove trying to analyze the smoke smell issue. The stove was always in a very good negative. Never came up with a fix. I added 4' of pipe and sleeved it to 6" with SS insulated liner (it was 8"). Total of 17'. The smoke still got out. Only after the gasket was enlarged did the problem go away.

Somehow, due to air turbulence in the firebox, the smoke smell is blown through the gasket. The gasket is porous, like steel wool. The gasket filters out the visible particulates but the odorous gasses seep through and they can be quite strong strong, especially near the ceiling.

Finally. Someone who has said they had the characteristics of the smoke smell problem too. I was a day or two away from pulling the stove a second time and moving to replace it with a working stove.

I will PM and hope you are game for answering a couple of questions. This forum doesn’t need any more of my plea posts. Have just been trying to be a squeaky wheel hoping someone, anyone, would dial in saying they had the same prob. FINALLY, you did.

I had thought about yes, a larger diameter gasket or similar jury-rigging the gasket space it to see if it could affect any change. But we are so tired of trying to figure this out, trying to dodge and failing at the smoke smell… anyway.

To your quote: “drhiii, ever notice you never see smoke? Hinge side worse? This is one strange aspect of the smoke smell issue.”

and

"Significant negative pressure does NOT mean smoke smell from the firebox can't get out!"

Yes yes. All of your descriptions describe my issues to a T. I have been going nuts over pressure, air pressure, negative air pressure... a litany of these tests. Have been driven bay sh!t crazy on air pressure and arrived at the same conclusion months ago.

Will PM from here. Thank you for taking the time. Your post may pause me enough, one more time, to try and solve this smoke smell.

 

[charger4406]

merry christmas to all and a happy new year

 

[kf6hap]

I am on my 3rd year of this cat and see significantly more smoke so I guess a new cat is in order for next year. Cat replacement every 3 years makes sense as it will be well past the 10,000 hour mark. This being my primary heat source and burning for 6 months each year 4 of which are 24/7, it all adds up. As for heating and light off in reasonable times- yes it still does. Quite well too. I just don't like the pollution. For easy figuring 10,000 hours is a year and two months. It is taking about an hour for the smoke to thin out to "water clear". When new about 1/2 hour.

Anybody know how long the acid wash lasts?

Cat replacement every 3 years seems reasonable to me and is certainly worth it for the way the stove operates and the fantastic savings in wood.

 

[Ryan723]

This being my primary heat source and burning for 6 months each year 4 of which are 24/7, it all adds up. As for heating and light off in reasonable times- yes it still does. Quite well too. I just don't like the pollution.

Anybody know how long the acid wash lasts?

Cat replacement every 3 years seems reasonable to me and is certainly worth it for the way the stove operates and the fantastic savings in wood.

I did the vinegar bath at about 11k hrs on my steelcat. Personally, it was a HUGE difference at the midpoint of year 3 for me.

I did it again in year 4 and had another good bump of catalytic power although it tapered off again toward the end of the season.

I swapped it out this year (year 5) at over 14k hours, but will give it a vinegar bath and consider it a decent short-term spare in a pinch.

Especially for a steel cat, I wouldn’t hesitate to do a vinegar bath. Ive never owned a ceramic cat, but I’d feel there’s a better chance of handling damage to a well-used ceramic cat. but I think the downside to a vinegar boil to a steel one is minimal if you follow the directions.

I also just adjusted my bypass tension and it really decreased the last bits of visbible smoke I noticed, added hours to my burn time, and let me burn lower.

If you have the cat out for the vinegar bath and haven’t checked/adjusted bypass tension, I’d do both and I bet you’ll get a noticeable improvement for a while.

 

[kf6hap]

Thanks. Very good information. I do check and lube the bypass every year during the annual sweeping and have made a few small adjustments along the way. A lot of stuff collects in that area after the bottom-up sweeping so it gets vacuumed out.

 

[claybe]

Finally. Someone who has said they had the characteristics of the smoke smell problem too. I was a day or two away from pulling the stove a second time and moving to replace it with a working stove.

I will PM and hope you are game for answering a couple of questions. This forum doesn’t need any more of my plea posts. Have just been trying to be a squeaky wheel hoping someone, anyone, would dial in saying they had the same prob. FINALLY, you did.

I had thought about yes, a larger diameter gasket or similar jury-rigging the gasket space it to see if it could affect any change. But we are so tired of trying to figure this out, trying to dodge and failing at the smoke smell… anyway.

To your quote: “drhiii, ever notice you never see smoke? Hinge side worse? This is one strange aspect of the smoke smell issue.”

and

"Significant negative pressure does NOT mean smoke smell from the firebox can't get out!"

Yes yes. All of your descriptions describe my issues to a T. I have been going nuts over pressure, air pressure, negative air pressure... a litany of these tests. Have been driven bay sh!t crazy on air pressure and arrived at the same conclusion months ago.

Will PM from here. Thank you for taking the time. Your post may pause me enough, one more time, to try and solve this smoke smell.

Just getting back here...thanks for the detail of your start up. I have the smoke smell as well but have been able to mitigate it with how I run the stove. Maybe I will try a larger gasket but also think it has to do with my set up. Anyways, here’s what it do. Load the box as full as I can get it north south. Start with it all WO. I even keep my door WO to get draft up. When the fire is literally making a “roar” sound I shut the door and let it rip until the cat is activated. Then I close the damper and turn the air down 50%. Then I let cat temps rise for about 15 minutes. Then I turn down the air until I hear the click and then turn it up about a 1/4” above the click or until the wood starts to glow again. This lets the flame die down but maintains a glow in the firebox. This gets me about 8-10 hour burn times on pine. The stove goes out of active cat zone during the night but keeps us at 68 last night in 20 degree weather. You might try to adjust how you run it...and keep experimenting. Also if you are using the fan while doing all of this, I would expect your burn times to decrease to 5-6 hours.

P.S. and my wife also can smell it before me. She will say she smells smoke and I go over and turn up the dial until I hear the air to “wheeze” and it goes away....

 

[claybe]

Significant negative pressure does NOT mean smoke smell from the firebox can't get out!

This is the very confounding aspect of the smoke smell issue! This is the reason why it took a year to figure out. It made no sense.

Door sealing is the problem. drhiii, ever notice you never see smoke? Hinge side worse? This is one strange aspect of the smoke smell issue.

Yes, the door might not be perfectly in alignment but I think even if it were aligned the smoke smell issue will still remain. I went through this. The fix was a larger diameter gasket. Your stove is presenting the exact same symptoms mine had.

I took Magnehelic readings on my stove trying to analyze the smoke smell issue. The stove was always in a very good negative. Never came up with a fix. I added 4' of pipe and sleeved it to 6" with SS insulated liner (it was 8"). Total of 17'. The smoke still got out. Only after the gasket was enlarged did the problem go away.

Somehow, due to air turbulence in the firebox, the smoke smell is blown through the gasket. The gasket is porous, like steel wool. The gasket filters out the visible particulates but the odorous gasses seep through and they can be quite strong strong, especially near the ceiling.

Can you let us know what gasket was used? Also I only run about 2-3 cord a year and am on year 6 of my cat. Guess I am lucking out!

 

[Ryan723]

@kf6hap You’re welcome. Sounds like you probably got it cleaned out when you swept/serviced the bypass, but when I pulled the bypass for the first time the other day, I found I had some well-packed fine ash in the ‘pivot area’ of the bypass, which I think kept the hinge pins slightly elevated. I think this kept it from sealing as perfectly as it could too.

 

[kf6hap]

Just getting back here...thanks for the detail of your start up. I have the smoke smell as well but have been able to mitigate it with how I run the stove. Maybe I will try a larger gasket but also think it has to do with my set up. Anyways, here’s what it do. Load the box as full as I can get it north south. Start with it all WO. I even keep my door WO to get draft up. When the fire is literally making a “roar” sound I shut the door and let it rip until the cat is activated. Then I close the damper and turn the air down 50%. Then I let cat temps rise for about 15 minutes. Then I turn down the air until I hear the click and then turn it up about a 1/4” above the click or until the wood starts to glow again. This lets the flame die down but maintains a glow in the firebox. This gets me about 8-10 hour burn times on pine. The stove goes out of active cat zone during the night but keeps us at 68 last night in 20 degree weather. You might try to adjust how you run it...and keep experimenting. Also if you are using the fan while doing all of this, I would expect your burn times to decrease to 5-6 hours.

P.S. and my wife also can smell it before me. She will say she smells smoke and I go over and turn up the dial until I hear the air to “wheeze” and it goes away....

No, I disagree! HOW you burn should not have any impact on "smoke smell". None at all, and that is a good thing. That is provided the flue is correct and the wood is dry.

The gasket was sent to me by BK so I don't know the actual size but is is significantly larger. The door had to be shimmed out a little to accommodate the replacement gasket. This was done by the installing stove company. They were sent the gasket, shims and an installation procedure sheet. Nothing special about replacing the gasket. It was just larger.

Once the gasket gets replaced say good-bye to all "trick" burning to avoid the small. Then life will be warm and fuzzy once again.

 

[kf6hap]

I just got off of the phone talking to Francico and he says the larger replacement gasket for the Ashford is a 1". The part number is 155-0188 and can be ordered through your local dealer. Don't forget shims must be ordered and the instruction sheet too. This is for the Ashford only but for the Princess I asked him the diameter of the factory gasket, it is 7/8", so replacing it with the 1" might work too. The Ashford fix is factory proven, the Princess is not but is very well worth a try if needed.

A big shout out to Blaze King and their excellent support. It helps to call at 0758.

 

[AlbergSteve]

The Ashford fix is factory proven,

No it isn't...