Highbeam
Minister of Fire
If it’s like the new princess model, it’s the same cat. Definitely want confirmation of equivalence from Bk. Good job buying a spare. I think I might do the same.
2020-21 Blaze King Performance Thread (Everything BK)
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If it’s like the new princess model, it’s the same cat. Definitely want confirmation of equivalence from Bk. Good job buying a spare. I think I might do the same.
Highbeam
Minister of Fire
Since all the new kids are doing it, I tried a top down start in the princess tonight. It’s been a couple of years and I once again am very unimpressed with this method. Fire lights quick and shoots up the flue. Hot flue, cold cat. Longer time to clean burning and heat production.
Im going back to kindling on the bottom.
Im going back to kindling on the bottom.
Nealm66
Minister of Fire
I don’t have any problems with regular fire starts but I’ve only lit a fire 3or 4 times. Maybe top down works better in the tube stoves? Or maybe different type wood. Maybe as the warmer season blooms I’ll start letting the fire go out and try building small fires? Definitely still on learn mode. Seems like even a small fire wants to burn a long time
stoveliker
Minister of Fire
Top down works great for me. I can't see any smoke coming out the flue, and the cat is generally up to temp within 15 mins.
I do think it matters a lot how long you have the door cracked. Closing it a bit sooner seems to help a lot for me. Then the fire does not blast but gently increases steadily. It seems to make it easier to heat the cat (maybe the hot gases stream less quickly bro the bypass opening?)
I have a lot of relights under my belt as the longest run I've had this winter was about one week.
But, whatever works for you is good
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Highbeam
Minister of Fire
Top down works great for me. I can't see any smoke coming out the flue, and the cat is generally up to temp within 15 mins.
I do think it matters a lot how long you have the door cracked. Closing it a bit sooner seems to help a lot for me. Then the fire does not blast but gently increases steadily.
I have a lot of relights under my belt as the longest run I've had this winter was about one week.
But, whatever works for you is good
So many people like it which is why I tried it again. I will say that rather than heavy white smoke I had just thin blue smoke. The stove was pretty cold, just a few embers in the ash.
Another method for cold starts that I have yet to try is the two step where you light a kindling fire and after it’s established you open the door (try to avoid smoke rollout) and load the actual fuel charge on those coals. That’s what lots of owners manuals recommend.
stoveliker
Minister of Fire
With the mild weather and using Idaho logs, for cold starts, I’ve been doing the kindling fire to get a base of coals that I then lay 2-3 press logs onto. I figure by this time of the year I just don’t need the huge heat of a fuller load. When we get to next winter and I have regular wood to burn (estimate my pile of splits at 6-7 cords with almost as much in rounds left to split (plus a ton of other wood scattered about) I’ll be doing top down for cold starts. My goal will be no more than 1 match a month though, starting in November.
Poindexter
Minister of Fire
As an EPA regulated burner in a non-attaintment area with a 500 pound stove, the key to cold starts is to get a lot of wood burning as fast as possible and keep the flue temperature reasonable.
Building the fire so the flames heat the combustor (and associated probe) directly is pointless, as the heat transfer between the combustor and firebox is good. I have to heat the whole thing up to get to the active zone. I think the gasket is just to cover the dissimilar coefficients of expansion between the combustor and firebox.
Top down, bottom up, right to left, doesn't matter. To get to a clean plume quickly, the only setup that doesn't stand up to data is starting the fire on the left and waiting for it to spread to the right with the loading door cracked open. Getting a lot of surface area on fire right now does work.
As long as I start the fire on the right and am using fuel at or under 16%MC I can (just barely) meet the reg to get from cold start to clean plume in 25 minutes, but my flue gas temp is going to be at or near 1000 dF for a lot of that time.
I have fooled with building a "log cabin" of small splits in the middle of the firebox with kindling inside the cabin to get to active, and then pushing the coals over to the right side of the fire box so I can "reload" on hot coals (an extra few minutes of dirty plume in the regs), but it is a major pain in the neck area and would be a disputable matter before a judge, that is combining cold start time with reload time. I think I could get away with it, once, local, but the EPA would poop a square red building material and change the regs if I play that card.
Building the fire so the flames heat the combustor (and associated probe) directly is pointless, as the heat transfer between the combustor and firebox is good. I have to heat the whole thing up to get to the active zone. I think the gasket is just to cover the dissimilar coefficients of expansion between the combustor and firebox.
Top down, bottom up, right to left, doesn't matter. To get to a clean plume quickly, the only setup that doesn't stand up to data is starting the fire on the left and waiting for it to spread to the right with the loading door cracked open. Getting a lot of surface area on fire right now does work.
As long as I start the fire on the right and am using fuel at or under 16%MC I can (just barely) meet the reg to get from cold start to clean plume in 25 minutes, but my flue gas temp is going to be at or near 1000 dF for a lot of that time.
I have fooled with building a "log cabin" of small splits in the middle of the firebox with kindling inside the cabin to get to active, and then pushing the coals over to the right side of the fire box so I can "reload" on hot coals (an extra few minutes of dirty plume in the regs), but it is a major pain in the neck area and would be a disputable matter before a judge, that is combining cold start time with reload time. I think I could get away with it, once, local, but the EPA would poop a square red building material and change the regs if I play that card.
Poindexter
Minister of Fire
@stoveliker , if you can truly get from room temperature "cold" stove to active cat in 15 minutes it might financial sense for me to drop $8k on a second chimney and run 2 stoves in the 24/25 class. How dry is your fuel really, and is "15 minutes" from cold stove to active cat measured by Android, Apple, Casio or estimated?
kennyp2339
Minister of Fire
5x10.6x2 is the combustor size your want, it also comes pre-wrapped in gasket, your combustor has a warranty for ten years. Just send it back to your BK dealer and a new one will be sent to you, but its good to have a spare just incase. Only pull your existing combustor if you have extra flat gasket to re-wrap it, never stick anything inside the cells like pipe cleaners, just a light vacuuming is all you need, or compressed air in a can (compressor air can work, turn it down low though so no damage occurs)
Finally internet trick: when specifically calling someone add a @ in front of the user name, no space, it will send them an alert... watch @Highbeam your top down fires stink.
stoveliker
Minister of Fire
A cold stove is one completely at room temperature. I use dry oak shavings (1/10 of an inch thick, from splitting) with some paper on top. Three or so 2" splits that are around 17% (maple or cedar), and some inch thick branches and 1/2" thick pallet wood splits (courtesy of BK).
If I leave the door open too long, it'll get roaring and it takes longer (and my flue heats up high, as measured with a magnetic thermometer on a single wall piece). Leaving the door open for 1 minute or so seems to do the trick for me.
I look on my phone when I light the paper and again when I close the bypass. That 15 minutes was at an outside temp just above freezing.
Last time I put too much kindling in (emptied the bucket of twigs collected from the yard) and it went a bit too strong. Roaring. So I closed the bypass when the cat was just touching the inactive range from below, to try to stem the raging inferno in there. It immediately glowed. That was exactly 8 minutes after lighting.
Of course the gauge was not indicating active when I did that.
My cat is still young, this is it's first season. Also, this is a 30 box, not a smaller one.
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MissMac
Minister of Fire
I can get my cat glowing when i throw the bypass in as little as 11 minutes using top down. With bottom up, it's closer to 18-20 minutes.
jetsam
Minister of Fire
I have found in my stove (and this is something I did not approach without trepidation because my background is all pre-EPA stoves) that I can load anything I want in there at any time of the burn cycle. Fill it with dry twigs? No problem. (And in fact this is pretty much how I start it up every year in the fall, and that fire keeps going for a couple/few months until the end of shoulder season, when I let it cool off enough to sweep the flue.)
I've done full loads of twigs and pinecones, as well as full loads of bamboo (never again). Any kind of crazy fire you get going in there can be turned up or down, off or on with a knob. I know that fire needs air to burn, but it still seems like magic.
The only reason you could burn a load of twigs in one of my old stoves was because the uncontrollable inferno didn't last long enough to heat it up too much!
(As a safety footnote, you can melt your stove with loads of small diameter fuel if you can't control the air sufficiently. It is also a great way to test if your flue is clean, because if it's not, this is the perfect way to light off a chimney fire. And even if you have a BK, your gaskets could be leaky, your door could be warped, etc. Don't start a brushfire, inside or outside, if you don't know in advance that you can control it.)
I've done full loads of twigs and pinecones, as well as full loads of bamboo (never again). Any kind of crazy fire you get going in there can be turned up or down, off or on with a knob. I know that fire needs air to burn, but it still seems like magic.
The only reason you could burn a load of twigs in one of my old stoves was because the uncontrollable inferno didn't last long enough to heat it up too much!
(As a safety footnote, you can melt your stove with loads of small diameter fuel if you can't control the air sufficiently. It is also a great way to test if your flue is clean, because if it's not, this is the perfect way to light off a chimney fire. And even if you have a BK, your gaskets could be leaky, your door could be warped, etc. Don't start a brushfire, inside or outside, if you don't know in advance that you can control it.)
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BKVP
Minister of Fire
BKVP
Minister of Fire
Good seeing you two weeks ago! Thanks for stopping in the showroom. Take Care! Stay Well!
ratsrepus
Minister of Fire
ratsrepus
Minister of Fire
that fellow that was having smoke smell issues a while back, I read all the post and replies, and I didnt see anywhere that an outside air source or an alternate combustible air source wasn't tried
stoveliker
Minister of Fire
I think he was hesitant spending more $$ when it wasn't certain it'd solve the problem as opening a window on the floor of the stove did not change things.
jetsam
Minister of Fire
He got a new stove from another manufacturer and has a new thread about how that one is defective too. (Seriously.)
Poindexter
Minister of Fire
Local ordinance is based on the plume opacity as viewed by the Air Quality Police from the street without a search warrant. They don't care where the combustor indicator is pointing.
Hello good people. After 2 winters of blissfully operating a new Princess insert, we suddenly have an issue.
Yesterday morning, I had a good bed of coals and added just 2 small sticks of poplar, knowing it would be a warm afternoon. Soon we noticed abrupt changes from full-window flame to total darkness. Didn't think much of it.
Then there was a sharp loud noise inside the stove. There wasn't any wood-shifting possible with the small 'load'. And it was a metal-on-metal sound. Then it happened 3 or 4 more times in 10 minutes. A smell of 'chimney smoke' was in the room, which never happens.
Late in the day, the fire was out, so I checked the operation of the bypass damper, and it seems normal. Reached inside the flue and felt around, nothing unusual found. Removed the catalyst cover, and it looks like new (roughly).
This morning I started half a load of lighter wood while watching the progress. Cat turns red and glowing as usual. But the flame is skittish: if I turn the thermostat below half-open (3 o'clock), it goes out. And I no longer hear the flapper click when I turn it lower.
Is it possible the flapper is loose and randomly going fully closed? Would the result be that the sudden vacuum inside the firebox is sucking air _down_ the chimney and knocking the cat-guard around (creating the noise?)
I've seen in these threads some descriptions of opening up the thermostat to check similar issues -- and I'm leaning toward doing that surgery -- but I don't recall anyone reporting the loud noises.
We have very good draft (never smokes inside, always draws well) and fine dry wood. Chimney was swept about 3 weeks ago and hardly needed it.
Thanks in advance!
Yesterday morning, I had a good bed of coals and added just 2 small sticks of poplar, knowing it would be a warm afternoon. Soon we noticed abrupt changes from full-window flame to total darkness. Didn't think much of it.
Then there was a sharp loud noise inside the stove. There wasn't any wood-shifting possible with the small 'load'. And it was a metal-on-metal sound. Then it happened 3 or 4 more times in 10 minutes. A smell of 'chimney smoke' was in the room, which never happens.
Late in the day, the fire was out, so I checked the operation of the bypass damper, and it seems normal. Reached inside the flue and felt around, nothing unusual found. Removed the catalyst cover, and it looks like new (roughly).
This morning I started half a load of lighter wood while watching the progress. Cat turns red and glowing as usual. But the flame is skittish: if I turn the thermostat below half-open (3 o'clock), it goes out. And I no longer hear the flapper click when I turn it lower.
Is it possible the flapper is loose and randomly going fully closed? Would the result be that the sudden vacuum inside the firebox is sucking air _down_ the chimney and knocking the cat-guard around (creating the noise?)
I've seen in these threads some descriptions of opening up the thermostat to check similar issues -- and I'm leaning toward doing that surgery -- but I don't recall anyone reporting the loud noises.
We have very good draft (never smokes inside, always draws well) and fine dry wood. Chimney was swept about 3 weeks ago and hardly needed it.
Thanks in advance!
MissMac
Minister of Fire
I am not a stove expert, and I can't think of what the metal on metal noise was that you heard. But from my own experience I know that one thing that can cause your flame show to all of a sudden go sluggish is if your cat becomes clogged with fly ash (this happens to me lots). It is most noticeable when I'm doing a cold start - I can have a rippin' flame show, get the cat up to activated, and then when i throw the bypass closed, the flames damn near die out. This is my tell-tale sign that it's time to let the stove go cold and vacuum the face of the cat gently in place. I usually get ahead of this problem now. I'm not sure if maybe your recent sweeping deposited some ash behind the cat? I would check that out, and if you have a telescopic pipe you could raise it up and shop vac behind the cat in place to be sure.
Did your sweep have the catalyst out when he/she was there? Are the bypass retainers in their proper place?
Sometimes my bypass mechanism will make a secondary shift/noise after it's closed as it heats up and settles. I guess you could describe that as a metal noise.
Anyway, that's the practical advice I can offer - not sure if any of it is relevant to what you've got going on, but I know others will chime in.
Good luck.
kennyp2339
Minister of Fire
@trail guy Mike what you experienced was multiple fuel rich light off's due to reduced draft from warmer temps, you can either open the t-stat air control more to keep the flames going or close it a hair more to reduce the light offs and go into dark mode where only the cat eats the smoke.
I occasionally get this when leaving the air set to low flames, then as the day gets warmer, pressure changes with draft and suddenly I'm not sustaining flames in the fire box, but the air to fuel ratio is high and it will occasionally light off causing that metal noise with a wif of smoke smell due to the small flame explosion.
I occasionally get this when leaving the air set to low flames, then as the day gets warmer, pressure changes with draft and suddenly I'm not sustaining flames in the fire box, but the air to fuel ratio is high and it will occasionally light off causing that metal noise with a wif of smoke smell due to the small flame explosion.
Thanks, that seems plausible enough. But we never had anything like this until yesterday, now in our 4th 'shoulder season.' And it is rather a disturbing phenomenon.
Also don't know where the thermostat flapper 'plink' sound has gone.
jetsam
Minister of Fire
It sounds like maybe your flapper assembly is no longer assembled. If you're mechanically inclined, pull the cover off the right side and give us some photos.
If not, give BK a call.
If you rotate the dial all the way around on a warm stove and the flapper doesn't clink open/shut, something is off.
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