A " New and Improved" Vermont Castings ?

[Cast Iron]

The VC Encore Flexburn has arrived. Rather than post on a VC blog, let's try this about the newer product.
So, can a manufacturer with poor QC past like Vermont Castings, change their product quality and service ?

First impressions before we actually burn the thing:
The look and exterior casts are exactly the same as the older Defiant Encore 2550. Visited 2 friends with well used Encore 2550 cat stoves to check on the old model.
This Encore came with bottom and rear heat shields ( a pain the a$$ to install ), a cat thermo probe to plug into the rear ( advice: should I install it , or just use a stove top thermometer ? ), nice installation manual with pics.
The stove is her blue/black "Twilight" enamel.
No secondary air thermo control like on the 2550. Unable to find where secondary air would be. Ideas ?
Reinforcement of the cat damper.
Better ash pan latch--a 'rolling' latch lock.
The so-called refractory assembly is now a hard material , maybe FG rather than the older soft, breakable stuff that 2550 people hated.
The refractory panels are no tool access to the cat. Pull out panels, simple for cat removal or cleaning.
Specs say that the cat can be removed for "non cat" burning.
The cat is 1/2 the thickness of the older cats ( questionable durablity ?). BUT, VC/HHT warranties the cat for 3 full years, not prorated like other cat makers.
The cast quality is excellent, similar to Jotul.
Primary air inlet is now a closed vented 'box'.
Finally, the VC/HHT warranty has expanded in parts and length of guarantee. It's all in the manual.

The only problem was installing the heat shields. The dealer emailed the solution from VC within an hour.

As you guys say, "it isn't real without pics. " When the Encore is installed and burning this weekend, there will be pics and review. The cracked Oslo has been sold with full disclosure of the problem. It is going to a seasonal hunting camp.

 

[bholler]

The VC Encore Flexburn has arrived. Rather than post on a VC blog, let's try this about the newer product.
So, can a manufacturer with poor QC past like Vermont Castings, change their product quality and service ?

First impressions before we actually burn the thing:
The look and exterior casts are exactly the same as the older Defiant Encore 2550. Visited 2 friends with well used Encore 2550 cat stoves to check on the old model.
This Encore came with bottom and rear heat shields ( a pain the a$$ to install ), a cat thermo probe to plug into the rear ( advice: should I install it , or just use a stove top thermometer ? ), nice installation manual with pics.
The stove is her blue/black "Twilight" enamel.
No secondary air thermo control like on the 2550. Unable to find where secondary air would be. Ideas ?
Reinforcement of the cat damper.
Better ash pan latch--a 'rolling' latch lock.
The so-called refractory assembly is now a hard material , maybe FG rather than the older soft, breakable stuff that 2550 people hated.
The refractory panels are no tool access to the cat. Pull out panels, simple for cat removal or cleaning.
Specs say that the cat can be removed for "non cat" burning.
The cat is 1/2 the thickness of the older cats ( questionable durablity ?). BUT, VC/HHT warranties the cat for 3 full years, not prorated like other cat makers.
The cast quality is excellent, similar to Jotul.
Primary air inlet is now a closed vented 'box'.
Finally, the VC/HHT warranty has expanded in parts and length of guarantee. It's all in the manual.

The only problem was installing the heat shields. The dealer emailed the solution from VC within an hour.

As you guys say, "it isn't real without pics. " When the Encore is installed and burning this weekend, there will be pics and review. The cracked Oslo has been sold with full disclosure of the problem. It is going to a seasonal hunting camp.

Good luck i hope it works out for you. You absolutly need the cat probe without it you are flying blind. I would suggest an auber remote probe.

And vc never had poor quality control. They just have poor engeneering but excelent build quality of those poor designs.

 

[stovelark]

I asked you in another thread if you worked at VC, this seems to confirm you don't- that you have been describing this new stove based on what others have been telling you? I hope it works out for you too, but I'm curious about cost?? I'm reluctant to think this new design will remove the distrust for that design. BTW, I'd much rather fix a "cracked" Oslo piece than break down and repair a VC fountain assembly... I'm sure there was many VC's not operated properly and caused damage, I know if an Oslo cracked on the top plate or bottom base plate, it involved improper operation, normally the dreaded opening the ash door to "get it going". Good luck.

 

[Cast Iron]

Never "worked at" VC or any stove company.
This new stove is what is on the floor here at home. No one is telling anything, all real research on past VC stoves, on the Flexburns from dealers, from owners.
That "fountain" is an old design, not in production.
Repairing cracked cast iron is near impossible. Parts are expensive. In my past posts the needs and wants for a new wood stove were explained.
Cost for the VC Encore was $3400. including delivery onto the hearth.

 

[stovelark]

I'm kinda chuckling, never meant to imply about "repairing cast iron", I'm talking about getting a new cast piece (the one that is cracked) and replacing it, taking the stove apart and putting it back together. Had many VCs and Jotuls apart in the past, my conclusion was Jotuls were much easier to repair. I've seen many VC and Jotuls come in for trades and/or disposal, I'd still give Jotul the nod on punishment absorbed. Well thanks for answering questions, good luck with her. Wow, VC still expensive I see., but for an enameled version that seems like a good price.

 

[bholler]

Never "worked at" VC or any stove company.
This new stove is what is on the floor here at home. No one is telling anything, all real research on past VC stoves, on the Flexburns from dealers, from owners.
That "fountain" is an old design, not in production.
Repairing cracked cast iron is near impossible. Parts are expensive. In my past posts the needs and wants for a new wood stove were explained.
Cost for the VC Encore was $3400. including delivery onto the hearth.

Yes the fountain is no longer used but they still have a similar part out of a different material we will see how it holds up. I have only replaced one of them so far out of 5 we work on. And to be fair that was because the owner tried to work on it and broke it. And no it wasnt covered under warantee because it was deemed abuse. As was every part we have replaced on the new stoves

 

[webby3650]

I'm kinda chuckling, never meant to imply about "repairing cast iron", I'm talking about getting a new cast piece (the one that is cracked) and replacing it, taking the stove apart and putting it back together. Had many VCs and Jotuls apart in the past, my conclusion was Jotuls were much easier to repair. I've seen many VC and Jotuls come in for trades and/or disposal, I'd still give Jotul the nod on punishment absorbed. Well thanks for answering questions, good luck with her. Wow, VC still expensive I see., but for an enameled version that seems like a good price.

Same here. We sell the used Jotuls for $5-800, we take the VCs to the scrap yard.

 

[Cast Iron]

Be nice guys. There is a possiblity that that company has changed. Have some faith.....look at GM, Ford, errrr IBM, Apple.
You've even changed since H.S. !

 

[Diabel]

They are (in my opinion) still the most beautiful stoves out there.

BUT...................

 

[bholler]

Be nice guys. There is a possiblity that that company has changed. Have some faith.....look at GM, Ford, errrr IBM, Apple.
You've even changed since H.S. !

The problem is those of us who are commenting here have worked on the new stoves and have seen that they are better but still far behind most others in durability. We want them to do better but they insist on using a down draft design which is inherently flawed.

 

[stovelark]

I was trying to be unbiased as much as I can. I will recognize that the name VC still carries much acclaim in the industry, albeit prob due to the early VCs. And like I said, I still think the inserts are nice heaters, great looking stoves, espec the Merrimack. Its just hard to forget bad experiences, I associate that design akin to the pinto, it worked ok but under the right conditions, bad things would/will happen... I myself would tell you, of the stoves I've owned, the Oslo was by far the nicest looking one, but it wasn't my favorite. I've kept the Enviro Kodiak the longest and it still amazes me, easy to run, fantastic heat output and long burn times. The only knock on it is its rather plain looks, cast legs and brushed chrome door helped it, but I think all would admit here cast stoves are by far nicer looking and that VC has long been the standard for nice looking cast stoves..
Forgot to mention one thing more- Jotul in my experience is by far the easiest to get parts for and logistic support of. Of course it helped that I worked at a large Jotul retailer, near Jotul itself. I can't say that of Hearthstone, Enviro, Quadrafire SBI, they were ok, but Jotul support for us was fantastic.

 

[Kevin Weis]

Cast Iron, how does your cat access panel fit? Is it very lose with a sizable gap at the top? Pictures please. I don't think your would be too much different than mine. On mine I had to put a gasket on the top of the panel to close that gap. It did make a significant difference in the performance of the stove. Found out the problem with that was really the back refactory is slightly oversized for some reason. Since the gasket solved the issue at least for now I'm not doing anything further with it though VC. BTW the air inlet cover is removable to adjust the air intake flap. Mine was out of adjustment. The locking nut on the cable was barely hand tight out of the crate. You might want to check yours. Kevin

 

[webby3650]

Cast Iron, how does your cat access panel fit? Is it very lose with a sizable gap at the top? Pictures please. I don't think your would be too much different than mine. On mine I had to put a gasket on the top of the panel to close that gap. It did make a significant difference in the performance of the stove. Found out the problem with that was really the back refactory is slightly oversized for some reason. Since the gasket solved the issue at least for now I'm not doing anything further with it though VC. BTW the air inlet cover is removable to adjust the air intake flap. Mine was out of adjustment. The locking nut on the cable was barely hand tight out of the crate. You might want to check yours. Kevin

That has been a problem. We’ve had a few fall out and break during operation.

 

[rox3406]

This reminds me of how governments purchase things. “ this product was realy good in the 70’s but has been plagued with major issues for the last 40 years, let’s get one”. Hope you have a good experience with though.

 

[begreen]

The VC Encore Flexburn has arrived. Rather than post on a VC blog, let's try this about the newer product.
So, can a manufacturer with poor QC past like Vermont Castings, change their product quality and service ?

First impressions before we actually burn the thing:
The look and exterior casts are exactly the same as the older Defiant Encore 2550. Visited 2 friends with well used Encore 2550 cat stoves to check on the old model.
This Encore came with bottom and rear heat shields ( a pain the a$$ to install ), a cat thermo probe to plug into the rear ( advice: should I install it , or just use a stove top thermometer ? ), nice installation manual with pics.
The stove is her blue/black "Twilight" enamel.
No secondary air thermo control like on the 2550. Unable to find where secondary air would be. Ideas ?
Reinforcement of the cat damper.
Better ash pan latch--a 'rolling' latch lock.
The so-called refractory assembly is now a hard material , maybe FG rather than the older soft, breakable stuff that 2550 people hated.
The refractory panels are no tool access to the cat. Pull out panels, simple for cat removal or cleaning.
Specs say that the cat can be removed for "non cat" burning.
The cat is 1/2 the thickness of the older cats ( questionable durablity ?). BUT, VC/HHT warranties the cat for 3 full years, not prorated like other cat makers.
The cast quality is excellent, similar to Jotul.
Primary air inlet is now a closed vented 'box'.
Finally, the VC/HHT warranty has expanded in parts and length of guarantee. It's all in the manual.

The only problem was installing the heat shields. The dealer emailed the solution from VC within an hour.

As you guys say, "it isn't real without pics. " When the Encore is installed and burning this weekend, there will be pics and review. The cracked Oslo has been sold with full disclosure of the problem. It is going to a seasonal hunting camp.

Good to know. Is the twilight enamel have a glossy clear coat or is it similar to the blue-black enamel on Jotuls?

Just curious, are you an employee of Vermont Castings or an affiliate?

 

[Cast Iron]

Kevin & Webby:
The access panel fit is solved, thanks. They have added a larger, thicker tab to hold it in place. Checked the primary air intake before piping, looks ok.
And BeGreen :
As attorneys say---"asked and answered" above. Why would you ask anyhow ? Never thought of asking all the BK people or you if you are an employee or affiliate of any company if you prefer a product. ( what the &$%#@ is an "affiliate" ? ).
When you make assumptions you make an a$$ out of U and ME ( old D.I. saying ).
Objective customer review of a product that "we shall see" . Patience Begreen. Patience.
Oh, the blue/black is like Jotul's, not glossy.

 

[begreen]

Sorry, it's been a very busy day and I didn't get through all the posts. We have in the past had salespeople jump in anonymously and push their product. If they do this multiple times they are violating forum rules, so as a moderator I politely ask.

As I have stated several times I am one of the lucky ones that have owned an original VC stove new and loved it. I strongly hope they have turned a corner and appreciate hearing good news about the company. I'm looking forward to hearing about improvements and how the stove works out for you.

 

[Simonkenton]

I have always engaged in dangerous things. Just like danger, I guess. I flew hang gliders for 5 years. Rode all the way across the continent, hopping freight trains. Rode from Georgia, all across the Rocky Mountains on my BMW motorcycle, that was pretty dangerous. All those dangerous adventures, yet, I am still breathing air.
So I admire someone who has the nerve to try something dangerous.

And today, you have bought a new Vermont Castings. Sir, my hat is off to you, you like to try dangerous things.
Good luck!

 

[Diabel]

I would not go that deep. But the "everburn" VC system was to die for! A melting piece of red melting cast iron!

 

[Cast Iron]

Be nice. Be objective. Look for possibilities.
The test will come. There were problems with every stove made at one time, why even ____ had defects. Fill in the blank.
VC/HHT stoves don't come with Kool Aid.

Now the rest of the story.
More "improved" changes found in this stove especially for you 2550 people ( 2 local old 2550 Cat Encores to compare) :
Inside latch on the front doors-- not a friction exterior lock.
Two side burn plates are the new hardened refractory stuff ( fiberglass ? ), easily replacable. Former Encore plates were cast.
Primary air is protected by a small louvered 'box'.

First burn to come while you deniers drool in anticipation.

 

[bholler]

Be nice. Be objective. Look for possibilities.
The test will come. There were problems with every stove made at one time, why even ____ had defects. Fill in the blank.
VC/HHT stoves don't come with Kool Aid.

Now the rest of the story.
More "improved" changes found in this stove especially for you 2550 people ( 2 local old 2550 Cat Encores to compare) :
Inside latch on the front doors-- not a friction exterior lock.
Two side burn plates are the new hardened refractory stuff ( fiberglass ? ), easily replacable. Former Encore plates were cast.
Primary air is protected by a small louvered 'box'.

First burn to come while you deniers drool in anticipation.

And is it still a down draft? Btw they havnt used cast iron side plates in a long long time. And that material is just cast refractory cement nothing special at all they and other manufacturers have been using it for many many years.

I am not sure what you think we are denying. It will work ok initially as long as your setup is good. They are still finicky and like to backpuff but they work. The question is how that new fountain design will hold up 5 or so years down the road. How will all of those expensive refractory panels hold up in side when you drop an arm load of splits in on them as you say you will. And will hht laugh at you and say the damage was from abuse? Which btw dropping a load of wood in there would certainly qualify as abuse.

 

[Cast Iron]

Cast iron burn plates were in the most common stove sold for VC, the Defiant Encore 2550 stoves made in the late 90's up thru the failed succeeding models. Yes, we know, the VC stoves had problems. All posted, all verified.
How about just talking about your real experience rather than rumor or piling on. Frankly it's boring.
Try some positive evals based on fact: do you know what you don't know ?
I'm giving you an on the ground review--fact., not conjecture.
It may work out, or may not. Let's see.

From tactical training manual long time ago:
Do you know what you don't know ?
Do you don't know what you know ?
Do you don't know what you don't know ?

 

[bholler]

Cast iron burn plates were in the most common stove sold for VC, the Defiant Encore 2550 stoves made in the late 90's up thru the failed succeeding models. Yes, we know, the VC stoves had problems. All posted, all verified.
How about just talking about your real experience rather than rumor or piling on. Frankly it's boring.
Try some positive evals based on fact: do you know what you don't know ?
I'm giving you an on the ground review--fact., not conjecture.
It may work out, or may not. Let's see.

From tactical training manual long time ago:
Do you know what you don't know ?
Do you don't know what you know ?
Do you don't know what you don't know ?

Yes you are giving a reveiw of a stove sitting in your house unused. I am telling you what i have seen from working on stoves that have been in use. That is not conjecture. And i dont know where you are getting the idea that they dodnt have refractory side panels before they have.

The fact is we have heard many times before that the internals have been completly redesigned. We have heard the waranty in new and improved. We have heard the new owners have fixed everything. But its still a down draft.

 

[begreen]

No secondary air thermo control like on the 2550. Unable to find where secondary air would be. Ideas ?

It looks like the thermostatic control is on the primary air supply, same as it was on the 2550. The cover and secondary probe appear to have been eliminated. Is this what you are seeing on the 2040? Secondary air is fixed and self-regulating according to the manual.

 

[Kevin Weis]

Cast Iron, can you post a picture of your access panel in place and a picture of the tab at the top that holds it in place. Just very curious as to how well they "fixed" this. Thanks, Kevin.