Advice on which Pellet Stove Brand to go with, please

[Anne]

Hello Sage Woodburners, We are going to buy a pellet stove within the next couple weeks. Do you experts out there have any advice re. favorite brands/models, or brands/models to avoid?

We are zoning in on the Harmon XXV in part because we like the way it will look in the house. It will cost about $4500 (tax & install included).

We also looked at Magnum Countryside (multi-fuel - is this a big advantage?), Jamestown, Enviro... A dealer told us not to bother with the hardware store/Home Depot type cheapo brands...

We're heating an old home here in Prince Edward Island, Canada. House tends to be cold - we're on a hill, insulation is present but inadequate. Windows are tight. Stove will go in dining room on first floor; pretty open concept and about 1500 sf total space to be heated on 2 floors. We burned 3500 liters oil last winter (ouch) plus about 4 cords wood in a great old Enterprise wood stove which has since been banished to the garage as it is uninsurable. We are giving it away.

We want to be greener and perhaps eventually independent when/if small wind become more affordable...

and we wanna stick it to Big Oil, the evil empire! Boo

Thank you, in advance.

 

[BrotherBart]

A dealer told us not to bother with the hardware store/Home Depot type cheapo brands...

That is like the electric company telling you not to burn fuel oil. Love those unbiased opinions. :lol:

Hopefully you will hear from the XXV owners here shortly. They seem to love their stoves.

 

[stoveguy2esw]

Harmon xxv is a nice unit would likely serve you well. im afraid i have to take exception with your dealer about the "home depot/hardware store brands" as i build them. although i do not take exception with you about it , i would say if the harmon looks right for you in the chosen location then thats the stove you want to get. its a great unit. (how's that for an indorsement)

 

[webbie]

Harman is a top brand, however you will see in a thread here that they were just purchased by a large corporation - of course, there is no telling what that means in terms of existing dealers, and support, etc. - just wanted you to be aware.

As far as multi-fuel - yes, that is a big plus these days. But if you have a number of big wood pellets plants relatively nearby, it may not matter. At the same time, if you envision corn and other biofuels, having a more flexible fuel unit can make a difference. Also beware - all units which claim to burn other fuels may not do so in the manner claimed......I have heard this about some big brands....claiming to burn 100% corn, and cannot do it.

As far as hardware store brands, two member of the board work at a company that makes and supplies these - and although I have no personal experience with the brands, we almost never hear any complaints about them. So they are selling tens of thousands of stoves a year and not getting any bad press - that's an accomplishment in itself. But you do have to consider service, etc. - if you cannot turn a screwdriver, then it pays to have a stove backed by a local dealer with a reputable service crew. This is probably more true with pellets than with wood, because wood stoves are much more easily serviced and repaired.

Budget is also important for some folks - 4500 is a LOT of money.......more for less, and less for others. It always depends on how the bank account looks.

Although I cannot claim to be the ultimate expert in brands, I can say that I would have a Harman....I would also have an Englander (hardware brand), and I do have an American Energy (Magnum) heating my shop. Then again, I am pretty comfortable with a wrench.

Have you considered also a more modern woodstove? Those 4 cords would probably replace a lot of your oil. Central heat is also something to be considered. Not trying to talk you in or out of anything, but just making certain you do all your research. As you will find out, most on the board are not acting as "salespeople" here, but just giving the various sides of the story. You will rarely get that story in a dealer. Last week I heard a horror story about a big dealer whose sales folks decided about exactly which stove to sell based on the "spiff" (extra reward) given to them by the stove maker. In this case, one make gave $30 a stove, and another $40 - and the store salespeople steered virtually everyone to the $40 spiff model. That is why we need Hearth.com to remain somewhat of an "honest broker". It is almost criminal for $10 in a salespersons pocket to make the decision as to a $4K+ product you want to buy!

 

[elkimmeg]

Now that Harman is or will soon be owned by the company that owns Quadra-fire. Why not a Quad or Avalon? ZEta a member has a good stove I can't remember the model.

A word about That big bix stove pellet stove I have inspected at least 40 of those Made By englander For the money they are the best stove dollar for dollar.

Might not have a few bells the stoves costing 3x more, but deliver the same heat. I am not employed by any manufacturer, but a building inspector in a small town in MA.

I do not have to stick up for englander their commitment to QC says it all. I do take exception to a dealer dissing another produce and spewing out garbage.

Makes me wonder what garbage excuse he will use. if I become his customer and a warranty issue evolves. He BS you once, pretty easy to repeat it in the future.

Sounds like he is quite practice at the art of Bs-ing

BTW Harman are quality stoves Zeta's stove is a ST croix?

 

[webbie]

Elk is right about a dealer putting down other brands.

I was a dealer for 20 years, and I thought of it this way - the customer was already in my shop.....the customer came to my shop because they wanted the better service and knowledge that we provided (most Home Depot employees certainly don't have the knowledge of a 10+ year stove shop employee!).......so the sales job was already done! I didn't need to be worried about the hardware stores or home centers because in most cases the same customers would not want a stove from there.

All of us, of course, are hypocrites....because when we want a good deal on a tool or something, most of us head to a big home center!

 

[seaken]

I will echo what was already said. If your dealer says stuff like "avoid that brand" you have to wonder why. A good dealer knows that brand is not as important as good customer service. That dealer either has what you want or he doesn't. But how is he/she going to treat you after the sale? Beware of anyone who tries to take advantage of the fact that you, as the consumer, know relatively little about the products we sell. Look for a shop that cares about you more than they care about brands or the sale itself. Especially with pellet stoves. The initial sale is never enough. Pellet stoves are not simple products and take a fair amount of maintenance and expertise to keep going efficiently and trouble-free. If you are not a do-it-yourselfer you will need a good technician for the brand you choose within a comfortable distance.

For what it's worth, I've had good success with Harman and Avalon/Lopi pellet stoves. They tend to work with little trouble. But I have never seen a perfect stove or a perfect company. Stuff goes wrong. I prefer to work with those stoves that make it easy to service. I give Harman the edge there. But Avalon/Lopi are pretty easy to service as well, at least their free-standers.

If looks is paramount then both Harman and Avalon/Lopi have some very nice looking stoves. But that is subjective. If you like modern you may like the looks of Austroflamm or some of the Enviro models. If looks is not such a big deal then fine stoves can be found with American Energy or Englander (although I think these brands are better for the do-it-yourself crowd), or maybe Quadrafire or Breckwell. There are lots of choices. Ultimately, it may be the dealership you choose that determines the brand.

Sean

 

[Anne]

Thanks to all for the info; it is enormously helpful and we'll check out some of those other brands, espec. Englander.
Interesting to see some of you guys from Mass. - I'm from Metrowest/Hopkinton and bro lives in Royalston. They heat with wood stoves and coal/wood boiler; he recommended Tarm boiler but we can't afford it.
Again, REALLY appreciate the advice. - Anne

 

[Xena]

In addition to all the other useful info, I'd
like to add that in my area, Home Depot
and Lowes carry the Englander Pellet stoves,
very reasonably priced too. Of course, they
aren't designed as fancy as the one you
have your eye on.

Also, keep in mind that the cold is just around
the corner. Expect pellet pricing to rise just
like everything else.
I'm on the 3rd season with a St Croix Prescott.
Love the stove. Paid $3k total for stove and pipe kit
in Oct 2005. We installed ourselves.
Never needed any warranty/support
from the stove shop where I bought it, but that is
something you will obviously want to investigate too.
St Croix makes the Hastings which is a really nice
looking pellet stove. I can't comment on heating
2 floors but from reading the forum I know it isn't
an easy task.

Is that $4500 quote you got a total for the
stove, piping, and installation or just the stove?

 

[Corie]

If you were going to wait until next year to purchase your stove, I would say hold out for our next model. Its going to be a real looker!

 

[GVA]

If you were going to wait until next year to purchase your stove, I would say hold out for our next model. Its going to be a real looker!

tease

 

[Corie]

I could show you BUT......... well you know the rest.

 

[HarryBack]

Harman dealer here....maybe speaking a bit out of turn, but $4500 seems a bit high to me, although I dont know the particulars of the install (distance, amount of pipe, local codes, floor pretection, etc)

Also, as for other brands. Every brand in the market has its place or niche. The big box units, like the ones HD sells have a place as well, especially where the budget is concerned. Elk is right, in that they both produce heat, with realatively the same efficiences. Youd need to look at total heat output, etc. Also, looks might matter, as well as features. The dealer is VERY important. Ive seen the guys here from Englander help folks, get involved in shipping defective parts, etc....thats thier business model, and it works for them. The Harman is dealer-supported...has a good warrantee, but if the dealer wont fix it, what good is that warrantee? Buy from the boxes, you'll be dealing with the manufacturer, and doing your own repairs, so if you dont mind that, ok. If you arent technically adept, that might not be the way to go.

Yea, that XXV does look good too, doesnt it?

 

[iceman]

I could show you BUT......... well you know the rest.

please please please give us a peek ........

 

[stoveguy2esw]

The dealer is VERY important. Ive seen the guys here from Englander help folks, get involved in shipping defective parts, etc....thats thier business model, and it works for them. The Harman is dealer-supported...has a good warrantee, but if the dealer wont fix it, what good is that warrantee? Buy from the boxes, you'll be dealing with the manufacturer, and doing your own repairs, so if you dont mind that, ok. If you arent technically adept, that might not be the way to go.

Yea, that XXV does look good too, doesnt it?

harry is correct, dealer support is an attractive option. our buisness model is based on factory support, which is the biggest reason we sell through "diy" companies like the home depot , lowes and others. the warranty is a parts warranty with heavy support via phone , internet and other instructional material. granted , this is not as convienient as having the dealer come ut to fix somthing, but in the largest majority of cases i have had problems diagnosed, corrected or parts inbound to the customer by the time the call is over. granted the customer is going to turn the wrench if necessary, but they would have a trained technician, who likely would have had a hand in assembling that very stove, on the phone helping during the process. couple that with an electronics package that has a built in easy to access diagnostic program, and DVD videos shipped with the stoves, and even more importantly, a unit that was designed specifically for the customer's ease at maintaining the unit (quite possibly the easiest stoves on the market to actually work on) we are able to provide a product line that is low in cost without sacrificing initial quality. another good side to this is bacuse of the low frequency of malfunctions during the warranty period the customer once out of the warranty period several seasons down the road who may have an issue can probably (especially with our help) diagnose and repair the problem without having to call a repairman out for the work. we at the ESW call center do not at any time charge a fee for time spent on the phone , so in that respect the "tech service " part of the warranty never really runs out. we do not place warranty calls above non-warranty calls (or vice-versa) and my policy (as well as the techs that work for me) is to only sell parts that are needed for the repair if they are necessary (unless the customer wants to have a "just in case " part around.)

that said, our setup may not be for everybody, some folks either do not want to , or cannot for physical reasons,or are just not mecahnically inclined ( hey no offense meant there folks, ther are a lot of people out there that do very well at their profession that arent mechanics, but i probably couldnt do what they do myself, each his own) dealer serviced based products are the better deal for them simply because of the dealer based warranty. there is definately room for both waranty versions out there, each with its good and not as good parts.

if you are ok with turning a wrench in the odd case its necessary and want a quality stove for a lower price, we probably are the best way to go, if you would prefer in house service by dealer and dont mind paying a little more by all means go that route. but even if you do , when im in here and you might have a question or issue, i'll still try to help cause thats what i do. i enjoy it, for me this is fun and informative.no hard feelings whichever way you go.


and yes harry the XXV is a wonderful stove, and very attractive i agree with you there (if i were not to have an englander (for obvious reasons) harmon would very likely be the brand i would choose.

 

[iceman]

i have a harman advance .. its great... whats even better is the "people" in here to give you advice... no matter what you choose SOMEONE in here can give you a hand!!
BUT 4500 sounds steep to me... personally, to heat large areas with an average or below average insulated house is difficult to heat with a pellet stove ... considering pellet prices
if you alreay have a woodstove setup i would save the money and buy another stove maybe even bigger than what you had(if thats possible) to heat an area with a wood stove is easier than a pellet.. in my opinion. especially cost wise
i don't like to keep my stove past burning a bag a day or else i might as well run the furnance
that could also be an option as well (replacing your furnance, if it is old) a lot of people DO heat houses with pellet stoves.. but they are wide open... well insulated
or the opposite but small houses

 

[pelletheat]

I think it's $4500 CANADIAN dollars in total price, I don't know how the current exchange rate affects the retail price north of the border

 

[GVA]

I think it's $4500 CANADIAN dollars in total price, I don't know how the current exchange rate affects the retail price north of the border

I think it would still be over 4k USD probably closer to $4200 USD

 

[webbie]

Us and Canadian dollars are at parity, or so I have heard.......our $$$ is hitting record lows every day. How the heck do you think we get all that money for Iraq, etc.....we print more, and then YOURS AND MINE are worth less! Such a deal.

Don't even think of traveling to Europe these days. On the other hand, it might be a good chance for American companies to sell more stoves in Europe and Canada.

 

[Shane]

I was just in Canada. Halifax & St. John. They go dollar for dollar now it's so close.

 

[HarryBack]

i have a harman advance .. its great... whats even better is the "people" in here to give you advice... no matter what you choose SOMEONE in here can give you a hand!!
BUT 4500 sounds steep to me... personally, to heat large areas with an average or below average insulated house is difficult to heat with a pellet stove ... considering pellet prices
if you alreay have a woodstove setup i would save the money and buy another stove maybe even bigger than what you had(if thats possible) to heat an area with a wood stove is easier than a pellet.. in my opinion. especially cost wise
i don't like to keep my stove past burning a bag a day or else i might as well run the furnance
that could also be an option as well (replacing your furnance, if it is old) a lot of people DO heat houses with pellet stoves.. but they are wide open... well insulated
or the opposite but small houses

bigger stove? P68...although in my opinion, you would be sacrificing looks

 

[Mr Whitfield]

Have you looked a Whitfield, I have 2 Whitfield Adv-2 and we love them. I will agree with most of the posts, 4500. seem to high..just my 2 cents

 

[Shane]

Whitfield is no more Lennox bought and discontinued them. It's my understanding they'll be pumping the Country line now. ADVII-T=good stove. Other Whitfield with photoeye technology in my opinion are trouble prone. Whitfields saving grace was it's warranty. Pretty good coverage. Their replacement parts carried the same two year electrical warranty that the original stove has. Alot of stove companies only offer 90 day warranties on replacement parts. Harmans warranty is awesome as well.

 

[iceman]

i have a harman advance .. its great... whats even better is the "people" in here to give you advice... no matter what you choose SOMEONE in here can give you a hand!!
BUT 4500 sounds steep to me... personally, to heat large areas with an average or below average insulated house is difficult to heat with a pellet stove ... considering pellet prices
if you alreay have a woodstove setup i would save the money and buy another stove maybe even bigger than what you had(if thats possible) to heat an area with a wood stove is easier than a pellet.. in my opinion. especially cost wise
i don't like to keep my stove past burning a bag a day or else i might as well run the furnance
that could also be an option as well (replacing your furnance, if it is old) a lot of people DO heat houses with pellet stoves.. but they are wide open... well insulated
or the opposite but small houses

bigger stove? P68...although in my opinion, you would be sacrificing looks

i thought he had a woodstove already i meant buy a bigger woodstove...lol

 

[MrWinkey]

Well I'll throw in my 2 cents! Oh man a canadian one got in there!

I'm burning a P-68 Harman and it's heating an 1850sqf house with 2x6 construction. It has good insuation and an open floor plan so that helps. My house is a passive solar design so that helps keep me under a bag per day unless it's REALLY cold and if it's sunny most times the stove will shut off during the day.

The reason I bought the P-68 is too much is just about enough. We looked at several other stoves and really liked the Englanders but they did not have enough heat output at that time. It was a hard for us because of the open floor plan we heat the entire house with the stove. We figured that we needed about 60k BTU to heat our house and it's always nice to have some reserve for the super cold snaps or house guests. This house also has a clearstory in our living room that tends to warm the house during the day but suck heat up high at night. If it's really cold and we have below -0 weather the P68 wont be going all out but it does get a workout. Oh and we were also thinking about if we have little ones we would need to keep the house warmer and wanted that extra reserve.

It was last year so my brains may not be working but I think the cost was around 4k for the stove and the pipe. I am right on the border for installing 3" pipe so I went with 4" so that added some extra cost to my install. The nickel dress up kit did make the stove look nice enough but it was agian a few extra bucks.

My only complaint is that the stove tends to be louder than I would like. Since I live pretty far out and I was used to the whoosh of a Fisher burning quietly away all night, the bone jarring chunk of the auger kicking on has taken me a while to adjust. I'm a light sleeper so any sounds wake me up and it was an adjustment from my old Fisher.

Hope that helps!