Alright, I give in..

KenofShelby Posted By KenofShelby, Feb 7, 2019 at 6:44 PM

  1. Threerun

    Threerun
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    http://www.hearthtools.com/parts/2004enviroTrouble.pdf

    See page 22 for igniter troubleshooting. Should be pretty generic to a lot of models.

    Note that it does say "check the fuses in the circuit". I don't know if there is a fuse or not, but I would suspect an ignitor that draws amps would have a fuse somewhere. I could be wrong though...
     
  2. KenofShelby

    KenofShelby
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    Thanks for the help....The only fuse I can find is the main one for the whole stove. It is good..
    The only thing I have changed is the ignitor,,,,I replaced a worn out one, with a cheap one that worked only once,,, and somehow,,, managed to trip my circuit breaker... I replaced that ignitor with a good OEM, and that one doesn’t work, because there is no voltage getting to it...
    I am starting to think the cheap ignitor might have damaged my control board somehow.......hope not...So tomorrow I am going to check all wiring,,,to see if a pressure switch might be involved or not....The thing that troubles me is that when I start the pellet stove with a torch, everything works just fine,,,,,it runs, brings room temp up and then shuts off....just won’t restart because the ignitor isn’t getting juice,,,,,,doesn’t seem like a control board problem to me, but hey, what do I know??/
     
  3. Tonyray

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    good luck. Sorry I don't know how to diagnose a control board. Hopefully somebody does
     
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  4. Ssyko

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    Igniter goes straight to the control box. All switching is done inside it. I havent had a chance to go through the one Kap sent me other than to fix the traces that got cooked, i will check it tonight to see if it is a logic chip, triac or relay that does the switching. Sorry Ken it doesn’t sound good about your board but don’t go crazy yet i may have a solution.
     
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  5. KenofShelby

    KenofShelby
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    Thanks, Ssyko,,, I’ll keep my fingers crossed,,,, sure don’t want to replace a control box, if I don’t have to.
     
  6. KenofShelby

    KenofShelby
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    Another question,,, though it seems the control board is fried.....I checked the resistance on the ‘cheap’ ignitor which is probably what caused my problem...It still shows about 50 ohm...??? So that means it it’s NOT shot, right,,,I mean I’m not going to use it, but just wondered how it would cause my circuit breaker to trip?
     
  7. Ssyko

    Ssyko
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    might be a weak breaker. the igniter i have on my bench ohm's out at 49 but thats on a dif brand of stove.
     
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  8. KenofShelby

    KenofShelby
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    Could be,,, however, it’s the circuit breaker for the plugs in my shop. Maybe it’s close to being overloaded,,however, that’s when the trouble seemed to start......though I don’t understand , if the ignitor is still good, and the circuit breaker tripped, and now the control panel won’t tell the ignitor to start,.....?? A little too much electrical for me.....I am a plumber, not an electrician.
     
  9. KenofShelby

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    I did some plumbing work for a doctor,, took about an hour,,,gave him a bill for $600... He says “wow, that’s more that I make per hour as a doctor’....I told him that’s what I discovered when I was a doctor.
     
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  10. Wilson01

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    Could there be a bare spot on the igniter wires somewhere that you can’t see and it’s touching metal ? If there is it could’ve shorted out the the circuit board and tripped your breaker. I would think it would blow the main fuse in the pellet stove before it would trip a breaker but you never know. Is the breaker that tripped in your panel box a GFI or ARC fault breaker?
     
  11. Tonyray

    Tonyray
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    I had a bare spot on the igniter wire. While fingering out the ash in the compartment, I pushed the wire against bear metal and it blew the breaker. Scratch that it blew the fuse. Didn't harm the circuit board
     
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  12. KenofShelby

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    It’s an ARC breaker,,,,,I’m surprised the stove fuse didn’t blow first.
     
  13. KenofShelby

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    I’ll make a real careful inspection of the wires today,,,, however, no voltage is being sent to the ignitor when the stove first turns on, which is when the ignitor should work...??
     
  14. Wilson01

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    You can use a meter to check continuity on the igniter wires. The problem would be if there is a bare spot it may not be touching the frame of the stove all the time. If it was me and I was going to install a new circuit board and igniter I would replace the wires to the igniter. I would also install an in line fuse so it wouldn’t happen again. I had arc fault breakers in my house because that’s what our electrical codes call for and they constantly tripped running electrical tools and even the vacuum cleaner. I changed the arc fault to a standard breaker because they’re just to sensitive. I’m not saying that’s what you should do but I would talk to an electrician to see what other options you have.
     
  15. KenofShelby

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    Thanks Wilson, I intend to install an inline fuse in the ignitor wires,,,,,,,doesn’t make any difference which wire, does it? The problem started when I replaced a burned out ignitor with a low priced ignitor,,,it worked once, then blew the circuit,,,,still don’t know why the stove fuse didn’t go first. Then I got a better quality ignitor, wired it in,,,,and it doens’t work...No voltage to the ignitor when the stove first starts.......????
    I ran a resistance test on both igniters, the cheap one and the good one....both show about 50ohms resistance,,,,,not making sense to me....Now I am going to go over the wires inch by inch,,,,
     
  16. Wilson01

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    I’m not familiar with that stove so maybe the other guys that have been helping you will jump in with their thoughts. If it doesn’t matter which wire goes where on the igniter one is still a hot wire and one is the ground. You would want the fuse in the hot wire side. Once you have the new circuit board installed and before you hook the the wires to the igniter turn the stove on and check which wire is the hot side with a meter. Be careful while your doing this so the wires don’t touch metal and short your board out again. Maybe a wiring schematic for your stove would show which wire is hot on the circuit board and save you the trouble of doing it with a meter.
     
  17. KenofShelby

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    Alright I can do that, I mean look for a schematic, first,,,,,,obviously both wires look the same... Now the wires are held together with ceramic wire nuts, but the new igniters come with just those slip-together connections,,,,with a plastic sleeve,. Does’t seem like they are exposed to that much heat..
    Second, looking at an ignitor, it’s just two wires and the part that heats up and glows,, is that called a ‘coil’. I don’t see anything there that would cause a short....so what did......
    I’ve checked my wires, but when the stove cools down, I’ll check again VERY carefully to see if any wire might be touching metal...
     
  18. Wilson01

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    I’m not sure what shorted out before but maybe it was something with the circuit board that started all your problems. Did you ever check the resistance on the original igniter or bench test it ? Maybe you could find a used circuit board off a junk stove to try before you invest in a new one. Or is there a technician near you that could diagnose it for you ? It’s tough to help someone without actually looking at it and I would hate to see you buy a new board and have it not work or even worse burn the new one out.
     
  19. Ssyko

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    this is the inside of a 1000 control box, i need to reverse trace to find the bad relay or logic chip. you can send anytime Ken. looks like i have to buy a new O-scope, mines to old to get the (not made anymore) part

    Quad1000MOD.jpg

    only wire diagram i could find for the Quad 1000
    controlharness.jpg
     
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  20. KenofShelby

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    65381402-C0C2-4A64-B13A-8F1D0747D8B1.jpeg 65C25741-472B-43F9-B7BD-F6878ABE7FC3.jpeg
    A372C8F2-DD64-4CA8-887B-74E796BEDFC0.jpeg Opened up my control box, here is a picture of the top

    Looks good, doesn’t it?

    Now here are two pictures of the bottom side,: see above, notice the burned spot,,Not so good, right??
     
  21. KenofShelby

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    Alright,,,I need to figure out what caused the short, both igniters show 50 ohms,,,,, I checked ever inch of the feed wires, both with bare fingers and with a lens. No breaks, nice and smooth and clean.. I would have liked to done a continuity check on them but one end is soldered into the box, that the control box connects too,,,so can’t do that.

    If the ‘cheap’ ignitor had touched the metal sleeve it is in, could that have caused a short.???

    I am at a loss now....???
     
  22. bob bare

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    Looks fixable.
     
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  23. KenofShelby

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    What do you mean?? How??
     
  24. bob bare

    bob bare
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    Ignitor could have done it,think of a toaster,imagine the wire heating element expands and shorts out,then OK when cool.Although would generally only do it once in a toaster,as it is not going through a control board.But,old age on board could do it.Just throwing out possibles.
     
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  25. KenofShelby

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    Bob, I appreciate your quick response,,but I don’t quite understand,,,,,,,,
     

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