Another All Nighter found, i thought i knew my woodstoves but this has me wondering... What the heck model is it??

[Metalmantma]

I am a lover of older cast and steel stoves. Particularly i happen to love Fisher stoves and All Nighter stoves. The last few years i have found some old Timberlines and Northern Comforts that basically seem to be Fishers with different body stylings. I have read and heard alot about the patent infringements and expensive battles. Very sad scenario for Bob and Carol Fisher. The upside is there are many Fisher units still out there being used. My father still runs a papa bear and i have an identical papa bear in my shop next to an old mama bear with pipe end caps as air caps. I came across a northern comfort single door with 2 air vents in the front. There are two metal plaque plates riveted on the door that say" northern comfort" . One happened to be loosely attached so i took them off, WOW, Coaly would be wild if he saw what i saw.....the door used to say FISHER on it The Fisher name had been ground and sanded down flush, although the obvious evidence of a crime could still be read plan as day. So i could ramble on and on about these old stoves all day, my question to everyone is this, What model is this??

 

[Metalmantma]

Sorry i posted thread without pics included. Here they are folks! Tell me what ya think, thank you

 

[Mech e]

Quite possible Fisher was selling the stoves to Northern Comfort and allowing them to rebrand the stove. Fisher may have even done the rebranding in their factory for them. This is a very common business model.

 

[bholler]

I have to add fisher didn't invent welded plate steel stoves at all. They were around long before him. He was just great at marketing. The stoves really are not anything special.

 

[Metalmantma]

The memories i have of growing up around them are very warm and comforting to me and that makes them very special in my opinion. I guess any stove could do that but it just so happens they were Fisher or All Nighters in my case.

 

[Sailrmike]

The memories i have of growing up around them are very warm and comforting to me and that makes them very special in my opinion. I guess any stove could do that but it just so happens they were Fisher or All Nighters in my case.

I grew up around an old Ben Franklin style stove, and a couple others, brings back fond memories when I see them. Once I got a modern stove with big glass, I couldn't be without seeing the fire

 

[bholler]

I grew up around an old Ben Franklin style stove, and a couple others, brings back fond memories when I see them. Once I got a modern stove with big glass, I couldn't be without seeing the fire

And the cleaner burn and reduced wood useage. No way I would go back to a pre epa stove to heat my house. Even the cawley lemay I had which was way beyond most other stuff of the time period as far as efficiency didn't compare to the new stuff I have used

 

[Metalmantma]

The EPAs are no doublty more efficient. Do jotul olso 500s fall into the in compliance epa category, i believe it was a 2008ish model?

 

[bholler]

The EPAs are no doublty more efficient. Do jotul olso 500s fall into the in compliance epa category, i believe it was a 2008ish model?

Yes

 

[coaly]

Quite possible Fisher was selling the stoves to Northern Comfort and allowing them to rebrand the stove. Fisher may have even done the rebranding in their factory for them. This is a very common business model.

Can you explain what a "very common business model" means? Common for stove builders, or common for others to copy their products?

 

[coaly]

Sorry i posted thread without pics included. Here they are folks! Tell me what ya think, thank you

No idea of model, but that has not shown up on any All Nighter brochures, manuals, or literature. Cross between an All Nighter, Timberline, and cookstove with removable eye.

 

[coaly]

I am a lover of older cast and steel stoves. Particularly i happen to love Fisher stoves and All Nighter stoves. The last few years i have found some old Timberlines and Northern Comforts that basically seem to be Fishers with different body stylings. I have read and heard alot about the patent infringements and expensive battles. Very sad scenario for Bob and Carol Fisher. The upside is there are many Fisher units still out there being used. My father still runs a papa bear and i have an identical papa bear in my shop next to an old mama bear with pipe end caps as air caps. I came across a northern comfort single door with 2 air vents in the front. There are two metal plaque plates riveted on the door that say" northern comfort" . One happened to be loosely attached so i took them off, WOW, Coaly would be wild if he saw what i saw.....the door used to say FISHER on it The Fisher name had been ground and sanded down flush, although the obvious evidence of a crime could still be read plan as day. So i could ramble on and on about these old stoves all day, my question to everyone is this, What model is this??

The later Northern Comfort from Bancroft Ontario started in 1993.

My best guess is someone copied the All Nighter circulation tubes, Timberline style, and Fisher brand fabrication technique. They probably had a friend that worked at a foundry making Fisher doors and used the patterns. Not too many have surfaced, so there was probably not many, and I'm sure the buyer was told to make sure Fisher was removed or they could be in big trouble. I've seen the single door as used on Papa and Mama and the double door from Grandma with Northern Comfort on them. All from your area or Connecticut.

Are there any casting marks on the inside of those doors??

 

[Mech e]

Can you explain what a "very common business model" means? Common for stove builders, or common for others to copy their products?

Not sure about the wood stove industry specifically; I was writing in general terms. Kenmore, for example, doesn't actually manufacture any of the appliances they sell. Sears Kenmore major appliances are produced by LG, Whirlpool, Frigidaire, Samsung, & GE as well as other smaller appliance manufacturers.

 

[coaly]

Not sure about the wood stove industry specifically; I was writing in general terms. Kenmore, for example, doesn't actually manufacture any of the appliances they sell. Sears Kenmore major appliances are produced by LG, Whirlpool, Frigidaire, Samsung, & GE as well as other smaller appliance manufacturers.

The stove industry was all cast iron foundries making parts that were bolted together. Bob Fisher is credited with welding steel plate together making a stove much more air tight than stoves at the time. (others may have existed, but they were not patented or mass produced)

He was a laid off welder, who wanted to make his own stove, and when it worked very well, others wanted one as well. He started selling them, and his place of employment closed down, helping him make the decision to go into business for himself. With a few employees, he couldn't make them fast enough, so he taught industrious type people how to make them. He sold them a license to build with plans of the different models, giving them a protected area. He wanted the builder to make the money making the stoves, and get a small cut himself on each one sold. Stoves were fabricated in the shop in the rear of "Factory Showrooms" where they were sold in the front. This allowed custom builds with the sales staff in direct contact with the builders. So he could keep track of what was owed in royalties, and he would know what was being made, he had doors cast at a local foundry. Each fabricator would order the doors from him they needed, and pay the royalty fee and door cost to him. The doors were shipped as needed to his growing licensees nation wide as well as Canada. The doors were highly protected.

Unfortunately a few licencees started making their own version of his stove. Some lost their license, others were sued, and these builders started other name brands that originally built Fishers. Most stayed loyal to Bob.

There was a time years later when they were 60,000 stoves back ordered. Hesston Mfg. in Hesston Kansas was contracted to make stove bodies to catch up. They sent bodies out to fabricators without doors. By then more foundries were making doors across the US to save shipping from the West Coast. As he found out about others copying his stove, there were too many infringement lawsuits to mention, so they decided to simply make the best with more accessories and models than any others. At 1.5 million stoves at the time, they made more than all other manufacturers combined.

Fisher was a unique company.

Whirlpool made the gas conversion kit for every manufacturer of gas appliances when I retired from the propane heating industry. No matter what brand, gas parts are marked "supplied by Whirlpool Corporation".

 

[Mech e]

The stove industry was all cast iron foundries making parts that were bolted together. Bob Fisher is credited with welding steel plate together making a stove much more air tight than stoves at the time. (others may have existed, but they were not patented or mass produced)

He was a laid off welder, who wanted to make his own stove, and when it worked very well, others wanted one as well. He started selling them, and his place of employment closed down, helping him make the decision to go into business for himself. With a few employees, he couldn't make them fast enough, so he taught industrious type people how to make them. He sold them a license to build with plans of the different models, giving them a protected area. He wanted the builder to make the money making the stoves, and get a small cut himself on each one sold. Stoves were fabricated in the shop in the rear of "Factory Showrooms" where they were sold in the front. This allowed custom builds with the sales staff in direct contact with the builders. So he could keep track of what was owed in royalties, and he would know what was being made, he had doors cast at a local foundry. Each fabricator would order the doors from him they needed, and pay the royalty fee and door cost to him. The doors were shipped as needed to his growing licensees nation wide as well as Canada. The doors were highly protected.

Unfortunately a few licencees started making their own version of his stove. Some lost their license, others were sued, and these builders started other name brands that originally built Fishers. Most stayed loyal to Bob.

There was a time years later when they were 60,000 stoves back ordered. Hesston Mfg. in Hesston Kansas was contracted to make stove bodies to catch up. They sent bodies out to fabricators without doors. By then more foundries were making doors across the US to save shipping from the West Coast. As he found out about others copying his stove, there were too many infringement lawsuits to mention, so they decided to simply make the best with more accessories and models than any others. At 1.5 million stoves at the time, they made more than all other manufacturers combined.

Fisher was a unique company.

Whirlpool made the gas conversion kit for every manufacturer of gas appliances when I retired from the propane heating industry. No matter what brand, gas parts are marked "supplied by Whirlpool Corporation".

Great story Coaly. My large Fisher insert back in the early 80's was a heat monster. Companies infringing on others IP or work is all too common unfortunately. You sue them, they close their business and open another one with a different name, and start copying all over again. The only winners are the attorneys.

 

[Metalmantma]

The Fisher and All nighters have a special spot in my heart. I will check the northern comfort/fisher door for other markings. And i will snag a fee pics of it