Black soot all through my house!!
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stoveguy2esw
Minister of Fire
another one that gets overlooked a lot , with the "TEE" inside,a lot of times the tee cap itself can leak.
pull the tee cap off like you would to dump it , look up through the tee cap from the bottom, if there is any of that white rope there see if you see soot on it , if so remove the rope and look through the bottom of the cap held t the light again , if you see light there is the leak , fill the gap between the cup and the outer shell of the cap with silicone and it will stay sealed. do not however silicone the twist lock at the top or you will have a heck of a time getting it off to clean
pull the tee cap off like you would to dump it , look up through the tee cap from the bottom, if there is any of that white rope there see if you see soot on it , if so remove the rope and look through the bottom of the cap held t the light again , if you see light there is the leak , fill the gap between the cup and the outer shell of the cap with silicone and it will stay sealed. do not however silicone the twist lock at the top or you will have a heck of a time getting it off to clean
jtakeman
Minister of Fire
BobMac said:
Do you have any more info on the defects, Possible cures would also help?
Captainmt3, Do you have the furnace on a stat and does it spend a long time in the low setting?
SmokeyTheBear
Minister of Fire
j-takeman said:
Jay,
BobMac is talking about stove caused fines falling onto the combustion blower, charring, and then being sucked through the convection air system. A shield placed under the spot where the fines are dropping from could help or if possible blocking the opening they are dropping through.
This is similar to what I was talking about with fines (or other dust) getting sucked through the convection air system and being charred inside the heat exchanger.
Captainmt3,
This is a process of elimination and you are going to have to check out and act on all of the suggestions.
If that unit has provisions for filters on the hot air side.
I'd strongly suggest you install them and periodically clean or replace them.
BobMac
Member
J-takeman,
when i first seen this post i knew I had seen something like this problem before.
So I went to the old iburncorn forum and searched for it.The fix was ,for the new owner ussc took back the defective stoves.
But the fix was make sure all hopper seams were sealed,mainly at the bottom where the auger and hopper meet.
Another thought ,is the stoves exhaust too close to the gas/oil,propane forced air furnace??/could be sucking soot through
its fresh air intake?if there running at the same time
when i first seen this post i knew I had seen something like this problem before.
So I went to the old iburncorn forum and searched for it.The fix was ,for the new owner ussc took back the defective stoves.
But the fix was make sure all hopper seams were sealed,mainly at the bottom where the auger and hopper meet.
Another thought ,is the stoves exhaust too close to the gas/oil,propane forced air furnace??/could be sucking soot through
its fresh air intake?if there running at the same time
jtakeman
Minister of Fire
Thanks BobMac! Great info. Forgot about IBC and all the info on the 6500 over there.
I was looking at the 6500 at a local TSC back in early 09. Them things are HUGH! 50,000 BTU's on the lowest setting. I just imagined it eating pellets like they were going outa style.
I was looking at the 6500 at a local TSC back in early 09. Them things are HUGH! 50,000 BTU's on the lowest setting. I just imagined it eating pellets like they were going outa style.
OK finally!! Here's a few pictures.I have attempted to show how the flue pipe exits the house and the stove. I have shown the red rtv hi-temp silicone at the joints and also a picture of the auger that I read may be a problem. I hope this helps. If I need more let me know.....Thanks Mark
Also, the stove did run on low temp when I first got it. It wasn't very cold outside then! It is not on a stat. It runs only through the night for supplemental heat. number 2 setting on automatic burns 2 bags a night. House has hot water heat so no existing duct work. There is a place for a filter at the rear of the stove where it gets fresh air however there is no filter there. USSC has them on the website though if you think that will help.
Also, the stove did run on low temp when I first got it. It wasn't very cold outside then! It is not on a stat. It runs only through the night for supplemental heat. number 2 setting on automatic burns 2 bags a night. House has hot water heat so no existing duct work. There is a place for a filter at the rear of the stove where it gets fresh air however there is no filter there. USSC has them on the website though if you think that will help.
Attachments
Doocrew
Feeling the Heat
Check out this thread Captain. Soot on the siding is pretty common with the type of venting you have.
https://www.hearth.com/econtent/index.php/forums/viewthread/67304/
https://www.hearth.com/econtent/index.php/forums/viewthread/67304/
kinsmanstoves
Minister of Fire
How about an appliance adapter? After looking at the pic I see it. Please disreguard
Not 100% on this but could being to close to the garage door be an issue?
Eric
Not 100% on this but could being to close to the garage door be an issue?
Eric
jtakeman
Minister of Fire
I see one issue with the vent cap. Its kind of close to the house. Should be 18 inches of clearence. Second is check the vent for leaks. Dim the lights and check with a handheld light to find the leaks. Best to do on first start when stove smokes the most. The following area's are noted problems spots to.
stoveguy2esw(mike) mentioned the tee cap cleanout area. They seem to leak there pretty bad sometimes. Use tape here so you can cut it to remove the cap for cleanings.
Eric mentioned the appliance adapter. It should also be checked for leaks. There is a gap around the inner and outer walls. I usually fill the gap with silicone and sometimes even tape over it.
At the seams where you added screws. And also most of the seams on this particular vent system have been seen as leak spots. All seams and joints need to be leak free in the house. Take your time and check them carefully. Especially if there is a hint of wood smoke smell from start start up. Sometimes hard to tell on manually lite stoves!
Make sure when you burn this on low settings you have adequate combustion air(more damper) as it may tend to burn rich. If your burning the furnace in auto? Maybe go to the aux or manual settings and bump up the combustion motor to feed more air. You could also reduce the pellet feed in Aux if I read the manual right. From what I gather in reading some other posts. They tend to be on the rich end of the fuel curve. This thinng is definetly a tinkerer's toy. Not so much as a set and forget unit. It may keep you on your toes!
Keep us posted
stoveguy2esw(mike) mentioned the tee cap cleanout area. They seem to leak there pretty bad sometimes. Use tape here so you can cut it to remove the cap for cleanings.
Eric mentioned the appliance adapter. It should also be checked for leaks. There is a gap around the inner and outer walls. I usually fill the gap with silicone and sometimes even tape over it.
At the seams where you added screws. And also most of the seams on this particular vent system have been seen as leak spots. All seams and joints need to be leak free in the house. Take your time and check them carefully. Especially if there is a hint of wood smoke smell from start start up. Sometimes hard to tell on manually lite stoves!
Make sure when you burn this on low settings you have adequate combustion air(more damper) as it may tend to burn rich. If your burning the furnace in auto? Maybe go to the aux or manual settings and bump up the combustion motor to feed more air. You could also reduce the pellet feed in Aux if I read the manual right. From what I gather in reading some other posts. They tend to be on the rich end of the fuel curve. This thinng is definetly a tinkerer's toy. Not so much as a set and forget unit. It may keep you on your toes!
Keep us posted
SmokeyTheBear
Minister of Fire
kinsman stoves said:
Depends upon how far from the door it is, etc ... But you are correct it could be an install and code issue having that vent there.
ETA: I'd also suggest the OP put a level on the vertical run inside the building and make certain it is on bubble. Nothing like having a greater than 90 degree effective bend in an install.
Snowy Rivers
Minister of Fire
Two things here.
I am suspect that the black soot on the side of the house could also be getting sucked in around the front door ???
The terminus is sopposed to be a minimum of 12" from the house.
Depending on the way the wind blows that cap could be pickup up wind and causing issues.
As far as the Hepa filter on the shop vac goes.
The really fine ash will plug these really fast, get a long enough extention hose for the exhaust port on the vac so you can run it out a window.
I have a long hose for mine and just drop it out the window, put an old folded blanket over the hose and drop the window back on the blanket.
The crud all goes outside.
I have 3 direct vent stoves and not one of these leaves any soot on the house.
The secret is in the vent cap and how its aimed.
If the wind blows directly at the cap then the hot gases/smoke will travel up the side of the house.
This could possibly be getting sucked back in too ????
Is that a garage door to the right of the vent pipe??? How far away??
Does the garage connect to the upstairs ???
Garage doors are not air tight. The soot could be entering around the rollup door than taveling right up into the house.
Different and a little more distant piccy angles please.
Snowy
I am suspect that the black soot on the side of the house could also be getting sucked in around the front door ???
The terminus is sopposed to be a minimum of 12" from the house.
Depending on the way the wind blows that cap could be pickup up wind and causing issues.
As far as the Hepa filter on the shop vac goes.
The really fine ash will plug these really fast, get a long enough extention hose for the exhaust port on the vac so you can run it out a window.
I have a long hose for mine and just drop it out the window, put an old folded blanket over the hose and drop the window back on the blanket.
The crud all goes outside.
I have 3 direct vent stoves and not one of these leaves any soot on the house.
The secret is in the vent cap and how its aimed.
If the wind blows directly at the cap then the hot gases/smoke will travel up the side of the house.
This could possibly be getting sucked back in too ????
Is that a garage door to the right of the vent pipe??? How far away??
Does the garage connect to the upstairs ???
Garage doors are not air tight. The soot could be entering around the rollup door than taveling right up into the house.
Different and a little more distant piccy angles please.
Snowy
Snowy Rivers
Minister of Fire
I went back and looked at your picture a bit more.
The vent is right next to the garage door and also the overhang from the Portch roof is likely trapping the smoke right close to the front door area.
I hate to say it but the most likely solution is to run an Up pipe to above the roof level.
Post a piccy that shows a straight on shot with the stove vent, the front of the house and the roof above.
Adding pipe along with a cleanout trap outside will not hurt anything and will most probably stop the soot issue.
Post a piccy please
Snowy
The vent is right next to the garage door and also the overhang from the Portch roof is likely trapping the smoke right close to the front door area.
I hate to say it but the most likely solution is to run an Up pipe to above the roof level.
Post a piccy that shows a straight on shot with the stove vent, the front of the house and the roof above.
Adding pipe along with a cleanout trap outside will not hurt anything and will most probably stop the soot issue.
Post a piccy please
Snowy
jtp10181
Minister of Fire
How long are those screws on the pipe joints? I just replaced some pipe for a customer because the installers used 1/2" screws and punctured the inner liner on the pipe, it was causing smoke back in the house some days. Once you puncture the inner wall of that pipe its pretty much done for. The smoke gets into the outer wall of the pipe and then pukes out the bottom of the appliance adaptor.
I took out the one section with screw holes through it. Took the entire vent apart. Siliconed the inner joints as depicted in the duravent install instructions. Then since the pipe is enclosed in a wall where its not seen, I also foil taped all the outer joints. I also shoved some gasket between the walls of the appliance adaptor, and put red silicone in there also. If the inner wall does not leak (which I doubt it did after the time I took with the silicone on the inside), the extra tape and gasket should not matter, but I did not want to have to go back to this house again.
Also, all that soot outside in concerning. The stove should not be burning that dirty.
On another note, it is probably a code violation to have that installed in a garage like that. If it sucked up some oil or gasoline fumes while running.... BOOM!
I took out the one section with screw holes through it. Took the entire vent apart. Siliconed the inner joints as depicted in the duravent install instructions. Then since the pipe is enclosed in a wall where its not seen, I also foil taped all the outer joints. I also shoved some gasket between the walls of the appliance adaptor, and put red silicone in there also. If the inner wall does not leak (which I doubt it did after the time I took with the silicone on the inside), the extra tape and gasket should not matter, but I did not want to have to go back to this house again.
Also, all that soot outside in concerning. The stove should not be burning that dirty.
On another note, it is probably a code violation to have that installed in a garage like that. If it sucked up some oil or gasoline fumes while running.... BOOM!
pete324rocket
Feeling the Heat
Wow,this board gets more dramatic every day. The "black soot" you think you have in your shower is actually mold....yes it is black and it is also sooty and stains. It is in your shower because of the excessive moisture there. Clean it with javex or similar bleach and you need to deal with excessive moisture (proper exhaust fan in shower-possibly with a timer). It won't kill you but not nice either. We get it also in winter when cold walls,especially behind furniture have no direct drying air flow and the moisture turns to mold. And if you don't believe me, stop using your pellet stove for a month and see if the soot comes back.
SmokeyTheBear
Minister of Fire
While there could be some mold involved I'd put more money on it being soot for several reasons.
What is outside on the house is definitely soot and it is close to both doors and windows.
To the OP, get those filters. There is nothing like spewing crud from a garage through your furnace, both its convection air system or its combustion air intake.
Then you should check with someone in code enforcement about running a solid fuel heating device in a garage, especially a garage under living quarters.
What is outside on the house is definitely soot and it is close to both doors and windows.
To the OP, get those filters. There is nothing like spewing crud from a garage through your furnace, both its convection air system or its combustion air intake.
Then you should check with someone in code enforcement about running a solid fuel heating device in a garage, especially a garage under living quarters.
! $1500.00 Bedford, PA. 15522
Snowy Rivers
Minister of Fire
Capt'n
I would simply fix the vent issuse and enjoy the stove.
Not really going to gain much by bailing out now, heck the ahrd work is done.
Snowy
I would simply fix the vent issuse and enjoy the stove.
Not really going to gain much by bailing out now, heck the ahrd work is done.
Snowy
littlesmokey
Minister of Fire
Never thought of mold issue, here it's adding moisture to keep the furniture from cracking. Simple test, put a little water and bleach in a spray bottle and spritz the shower, mold will bleach and die, soot won't. But you said it's all over??? Do you have a weather monitor, like the three dials on a decorative board? Check the humidity.
I think we are throwing a lot at you. New stove should come with a strong warning, "SERIOUS LEARNING CURVE FOR OPERATING THIS APPLIANCE". You are well down the road to overcoming the issues. Hang in there awhile longer.
I think we are throwing a lot at you. New stove should come with a strong warning, "SERIOUS LEARNING CURVE FOR OPERATING THIS APPLIANCE". You are well down the road to overcoming the issues. Hang in there awhile longer.
checkthisout
Feeling the Heat
Do you have a fresh-air inlet for the stove?
If not, install one ASAP.
Your venting situations is atrocious. If you are capable do it yourself, otherwise hire a pro to run that vent up above the roofline.
Your stove is too big to vent into that area right underneath that overhang and right next to the garage door.
If not, install one ASAP.
Your venting situations is atrocious. If you are capable do it yourself, otherwise hire a pro to run that vent up above the roofline.
Your stove is too big to vent into that area right underneath that overhang and right next to the garage door.
mjbrown
Feeling the Heat
here's another thought for the soot on the outside of the house.... is that exhaust on the north side of the house? i have seen quite a few here in maine with a northside exhaust, and the side of the house covered in black soot. could be someone will say it makes no differance, but just a thought.
mike
mike
Shortstuff
Feeling the Heat
I can understand your frustration captain as you've see there are any number of things that could be adding to it. It appears from what I can see that everything looks pretty good as far as exhaust piping installation goes however, as was already mentioned the soot you see on the siding appears normal. That being said, being close to your garage door, the windows and doors of the house (by way of wind direction) and the fact that your soffit may be well vented (if you haven't checked you may have soot in your attic space) and also drawing the soot/exhaust upwards into your attic/crawl space I would only recommend one major change, actually an addition. I would extend that exhaust pipe vertically through your soffit, roof and then up high enough to be within code - perhaps 8 to 10 feet.
At this point you are probably truly ready to give it up and call it a day and no one could really blame you. I could take the "T" cleanout off my exhaust pipe and on a typical day with mild wind it would almost suck a tissue up and out the top. My exhaust vents straight up 14' through the ceiling, attic space and roof and provides a really good draft. I'm no expert by any means, but I think that if you extend your exhaust above your roof it would help a great deal.
Good luck in whatever you decide and kudos to all those who came here to help you!
At this point you are probably truly ready to give it up and call it a day and no one could really blame you. I could take the "T" cleanout off my exhaust pipe and on a typical day with mild wind it would almost suck a tissue up and out the top. My exhaust vents straight up 14' through the ceiling, attic space and roof and provides a really good draft. I'm no expert by any means, but I think that if you extend your exhaust above your roof it would help a great deal.
Good luck in whatever you decide and kudos to all those who came here to help you!
I have had two pellet customers with the same stove and same problem. It ended up being the steel around the door. When the stove got hot it would warp and create a gap that let soot into the house. They got rid of the stove and purchased another brand and have had great luck. My brother in-law also purchased that stove and had the same problem his was a heat exchanger problem. The heat exchanger had a spot that was not welded so it would blow soot out into the room. The door latch never seemed very good one that stove either to me anyways.
jtp10181
Minister of Fire
Shortstuff said:
Pellet vents don't have to meet the 2/10 rule as far as I know. I think the Quad manuals just say to be 2ft above the roof. So if you go this route, follow the manual but you might also need to go higher if for some reason local code requires it.
Shortstuff
Feeling the Heat
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