I understand that it's technically a cat stove. It's also technically not a true cat stove either. These hybrids do not run as long on low as a modern catalytic stove.
Cat temp never gets very high
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Here are the best pics I can get of the top of the chimney. I know he used the existing cap that was there and didn't connect the new cap that came with the liner.
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mellow
Resident Stove Connoisseur
Are you seeing smoke, that would be a sign you are not re-burning. Also, do not confuse the dark thick smoke with the white wispy moisture that disappears quickly after coming out of the flue.
No. I am not seeing any smoke. It's been running since about 7:30 this morning and got up to 750 at one point but as soon as I turned the fan on it dropped down to 650 within minutes. It is currently at 500 and I turned the air back up to try to get it hotter and shut off the fan. It's back up to 600 in minutes. Although the cat is barely glowing.
I just lowered the air to half and I will give it a bit and turn the fan back on see what it does.
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I left it for about 10-15 minutes. Temp is at 650 still. Cat not glowing and closed the air down. Have not turned the fan back on yet.
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Woody Stover
Minister of Fire
The cat doesn't have to be glowing for it to be working. As long as there isn't smoke coming out of the stack, it is working. Like mellow says, don't mistake steam for smoke.
Without insulation on the liner, with an exterior chimney, and with moderate outside temps, you may have to leave the air open a bit more than others do. Is this a basement install? If so, you may also be fighting a bit of negative pressure in these mild outside temps. Your videos in the other thread appear to show you are getting decent draw, though. For sure, a block-off plate at the bottom, or at least some Roxul stuffed between the top of the liner and the masonry, will help keep stove temps up and get you more hot air into the room. I would try to get a block-off plate in there, for the best perfomance, especially since the liner isn't insulated.
Without insulation on the liner, with an exterior chimney, and with moderate outside temps, you may have to leave the air open a bit more than others do. Is this a basement install? If so, you may also be fighting a bit of negative pressure in these mild outside temps. Your videos in the other thread appear to show you are getting decent draw, though. For sure, a block-off plate at the bottom, or at least some Roxul stuffed between the top of the liner and the masonry, will help keep stove temps up and get you more hot air into the room. I would try to get a block-off plate in there, for the best perfomance, especially since the liner isn't insulated.
That sounds like the way to go to me, certified CSIA sweep if possible.
There is definitely no smoke that can be seen. I have looked at it later in the evening too just to make sure and I can see some whispers but not smoke.
It is not a basement install, it is installed on the main floor of the house, so about mid way if you are looking at the picture of the entire chimney. The reason we went with a GC (which was a horrible decision now), was that we were using the fireplace last year as just a regular wood fireplace. We had it inspected a few years ago and they said it was fine to burn in. Well, the following day after burning, I noticed smoke in the room. We went into the room in the basement that is beneath the fireplace and it was filled with smoke and the floor joist below the fireplace was on fire. Needless to say had to call the fire dept, etc and they had to break the whole floor out to put out the burning floor joist. The mortar cracked on the floor of the fireplace and hot ash had seeped down and caught everything on fire. We were very lucky we were home.
So, I wanted to be safer and when we rebuilt the fireplace, I wanted an insert. So the contractor said no problem, I picked out the insert, etc and purchased them and he did the rebuild of the fireplace and installed the insert and liner. Hindsight, I should have just gone with someone certified and knowledgeable with this specifically. So the fireplace rebuild and install took over 5 months (another clue he had no idea what he was doing) and now we are 10 burns in and feel like we wasted money because now it is not operating as well as we know it should. Lesson learned.
So to clarify the block off plate goes in the top of the fireplace, above the unit, where the flue used to be, correct? If we temporarily go with roxul, it should go on the top of the liner at the top of the chimney? (that is high) Can I possibly use roxul where the block off plate should go as a temporary solution? As in to get by this year?
On a side note, I have ordered a moisture meter and an IR thermometer so I can see if I have heat loss anywhere else. Those should be in Saturday and I can do some testing then.
Let me know your thoughts. Thanks again!
redyute
Feeling the Heat
My stove is different from yours but I can't get my cat over 800° without properly seasoned wood, I think you need to measure the moisture content, wood might not be properly seasoned. I got an adjustable thermo disc for my stove and adjusted it so the fan comes on at 1000° cat temp instead of 600°.
Woody Stover
Minister of Fire
Holy Kamoly!
Sounds like the next best thing, if you don't want to get the certified sweep in there now, and be done with it. One-month and three-month temp predictions for your area are above normal, so you may be able to get the sweep in there yet this fall...
redyute
Feeling the Heat
Thanks...I have a moisture meter on order so I will see what it is when it arrives on Saturday.
Holy Kamoly!
Sounds like the next best thing, if you don't want to get the certified sweep in there now, and be done with it. One-month and three-month temp predictions for your area are above normal, so you may be able to get the sweep in there yet this fall...
I need to call around and get costs, the whole insert is my idea and project, so the hubby is not thrilled with the fact we have to have someone else come out and fix issues already so I am looking for a do it yourself fix possibly in the mean time. Roxul we can do
Any ideas how much a sweep would charge to add a block off plate and insulate the top of the chimney? Rough idea. I may be able to convince him. I checked for certified sweeps in my area and there is only one about 20 miles away, so that may factor into the pricing too.
Highbeam
Minister of Fire
A cat stove is a cat stove a hybrid is a hybrid and a non-cat is a non-cat. None of my stoves whether cat or non-cat have ever run just fine turned all the way down. 0 for 2.
The OP needs to experiment with running more air to feed the combustion systems of his hybrid.
BKVP
Minister of Fire
All of the non-cats I have owned work well turning the air down all the way, especially once real winter temps set in. Difference that 5 more feet of chimney makes.
Woody Stover
Minister of Fire
Well my non cat does infact there are times I need to use the stack damper as well but I also have 35' of insulated liner. Also many of the hybrid regencies I have installed run well shut all the way down. I agree that the op needs to experiment and find out what works with their setup and possibly fix the install so it works better as well.
If we were asked to do it we would insist on pulling the liner and insulating it properly and many other reputable sweeps will do the same thing. As far as a block off plate I would say $250 to $300I need to call around and get costs, the whole insert is my idea and project, so the hubby is not thrilled with the fact we have to have someone else come out and fix issues already so I am looking for a do it yourself fix possibly in the mean time. Roxul we can do
Woody Stover
Minister of Fire
OK, then it looks like total stack height from stove top to the top of the liner isn't all that tall. Getting the sweep to insulate the liner and isolate the stove heat from the masonry chimney will pay big dividends in more heat into the house, an easier-to-run stove when outside temps aren't real cold and draft is weaker, less chimney cleaning, and additional safety overall. It may seem like a lot of money now but this is a long-term investment, and the benefits of doing it right will be enjoyed for many years.
From the looks of the chimney pics, they may only have 12' of stack. Now, with 20' and an insulated liner and block-off plate, they probably could run with the air closed, or almost closed.
So the blower is on the bottom, but it blows the air from the bottom of the unit back up and around the top to blow from the top of the unit. Hope that makes sense and yes the probe is there. It seems the probe is sticking out about 3.5 inches fromt he hole it is in, but according to the instructions in the manual it should stick out 3 inches, so I will try to get it in there more.
The run length is approximately 25 foot. I checked the installation manual and do not show a minimum length listed.
OK, then it looks like total stack height from stove top to the top of the liner isn't all that tall. Getting the sweep to insulate the liner and isolate the stove heat from the masonry chimney will pay big dividends in more heat into the house, an easier-to-run stove when outside temps aren't real cold and draft is weaker, less chimney cleaning, and additional safety overall. It may seem like a lot of money now but this is a long-term investment, and the benefits of doing it right will be enjoyed for many years.
From the looks of the chimney pics, they may only have 12' of stack. Now, with 20' and an insulated liner and block-off plate, they probably could run with the air closed, or almost closed.
I know that it was a 25 foot liner that was installed. I was able to remove the face plate and I have a lot of room to insulation around the stove. I can also see the liner and it is not insulated and we were told we had a clay chimney and from what I can see we do not, so I have some work to do. Thanks for all of your help.
Woody Stover
Minister of Fire
That still doesn't look like 25' to me, from the top of the stove to the top of the liner, if the stove is on the level that is shown in the first pic on this page. Maybe it just looks shorter to me in the pic. If it's indeed that tall, all the more reason to have it insulated. The warmer you can keep the gasses all the way to the top, the less deposits you will have in the flue.
The 2600 certainly seems to be an easy-breathing stove, since they had to install a restrictor plate to slow it down. Those that initially were getting too much air couldn't have all been on tall stacks, I wouldn't think.
BKVP
Minister of Fire
Get a vegetable can, cut out both ends and drop over cat therm. If temp does not drop...it was false reading due to fan air movement .
Here is a picture when I took the faceplate off. The second one was where the hot air flows from the fan and you can see the probe in there.
I thought about if I could insulate that and see if it made a difference but didn't think of a can. Thank you. Can I leave it there if it works so I have accurate readings or will it cause harm?
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