Coldest night this year for the boiler. -10

[Gasifier]

Tonight is suppose to be -10F. I will be loading her up with Ash hardwood only. No soft pine to burn away quickly.
Here is a pick of the wood to go in. The splits and rounds in the back are only 16-17 inches. So I used the chop saw to cut some short ones to go in the front and get full use of her.

 

[711mhw]

Didn't the Beatles have an old song , or at least the lyrics "happiness is a warm gun" ?
Would you like me to send you a tape measure that goes to 26"

 

[ihookem]

It was -9 yesterday morning. The EKO 25 had a hard time keeping up. It was 60 in the house @ 7 am and only got to 66 by 3 pm. Doesn't seem right. Seems like something is wrong. I don't have storage though but I thought the EKO had more than that.

 

[Gasifier]

Didn't the Beatles have an old song , or at least the lyrics "happiness is a warm gun" ?
Would you like me to send you a tape measure that goes to 26"

Good one! Any time I can find a good deal on craiglist and it saves me from having to cut it I take it. This wood was all cut to 16-18 inches. But that's okay. I think it worked out to about $23/face cord, something like that. That was cut and split. I just had to haul it 7 miles home. I will take that all day. How the hell ya doing? How is your wood supply for that Gun holding up? Looks like it is cold up your way as well.

Are you closer to Sanford, Paris, Rumford?

 

[Gasifier]

It was -9 yesterday morning. The EKO 25 had a hard time keeping up. It was 60 in the house @ 7 am and only got to 66 by 3 pm. Doesn't seem right. Seems like something is wrong. I don't have storage though but I thought the EKO had more than that.

How much are you heating? How is insulation? Is the boiler in the basement or outbuilding?

 

[Gasifier]

I just checked my control boxes for my zones. Four of the six are calling for heat! I have a big house and it is friggin cold out there. It appears there is no heat going to storage. Storage temp is down to 150. Normally it is at 175+. Burn baby burn! Lovin it!

 

[711mhw]

Good one! Any time I can find a good deal on craiglist and it saves me from having to cut it I take it. This wood was all cut to 16-18 inches. But that's okay. I think it worked out to about $23/face cord, something like that. That was cut and split. I just had to haul it 7 miles home. I will take that all day. How the hell ya doing? How is your wood supply for that Gun holding up? Looks like it is cold up your way as well.

Are you closer to Sanford, Paris, Rumford?

Kinda in the middle of those towns and right now it's 4 outside and the upstairs is 74 downstairs 76 and the garage (2400+s/f and where all my heat goes) is 60, so the wood just fine but going up the chimney pipe much faster than last year!

 

[avc8130]

Tonight is suppose to be -10F. I will be loading her up with Ash hardwood only. No soft pine to burn away quickly.
Here is a pick of the wood to go in. The splits and rounds in the back are only 16-17 inches. So I used the chop saw to cut some short ones to go in the front and get full use of her.

What do you plan to heat with that wood? Let us know how that load works out.

ac

 

[Gasifier]

What do you plan to heat with that wood? Let us know how that load works out. ac

4200 sq.ft. house, 900sq.ft. garage, and domestic hot water. But luckily there is no call for domestic hot water right now! It is -11 with a very slight 1 mph wind. The Wood Gun is running non stop, keeping itself at 178 degrees right now. No heat going to storage. I think she is maxed out! The oil boiler has not kicked on yet though!

 

[ihookem]

Gasifier, I have a 2200 sq. ft ranch with 9' walls. Insulation can't be better. I have 4-5 " foam in walls, brick, foames floor joists, and r60 in the ceiling with energy heel trusses that were also foamed . The boiler is 120 ft from the house. I am sure it would be better to have it in the house though. I read Goosegunner has 250 degree flue temps. I have 450 last time I checked. This could be some of the problem. I just don't see how ya get the stupid things out of the EKO 25 super. Very poor design. I might go into it tomorrow and clean it out a bit to see what happens.

 

[Gasifier]

Gasifier, I have a 2200 sq. ft ranch with 9' walls. Insulation can't be better. I have 4-5 " foam in walls, brick, foames floor joists, and r60 in the ceiling with energy heel trusses that were also foamed . The boiler is 120 ft from the house. I am sure it would be better to have it in the house though. I read Goosegunner has 250 degree flue temps. I have 450 last time I checked. This could be some of the problem. I just don't see how ya get the stupid things out of the EKO 25 super. Very poor design. I might go into it tomorrow and clean it out a bit to see what happens.

I just cleaned my boiler today. The last time I did it was 4 days ago. When it gets this cold and you are going through a lot of wood I would suggest you clean it often. I would think you should be able to heat that house without problem with the insulation you have. How far down are your lines? Are they insulated well? It is pretty friggin cold out though. My Wood Gun radiates off a lot of heat into the basement which then comes up into the house. I would think it must be pretty nice though to have the mess and any smell outside the house. It does not get this cold much anymore. So look at it this way. About, what, 95 % of the time your EKO is keeeping up just fine. Is that accurate? Has your back-up kicked on yet?

 

[avc8130]

4200 sq.ft. house, 900sq.ft. garage, and domestic hot water. But luckily there is no call for domestic hot water right now! It is -11 with a very slight 1 mph wind. The Wood Gun is running non stop, keeping itself at 178 degrees right now. No heat going to storage. I think she is maxed out! The oil boiler has not kicked on yet though!

I'm curious how long that load lasts at this rate!

We are in the teens at night and low 20s during the days. My 180 is rocking through wood.

ac

 

[mikefrommaine]

Below zero, 70* this am and it cost me ~$1 to heat my house. What's not to like?

 

[bernard]

Below zero, 70* this am and it cost me ~$1 to heat my house. What's not to like?

_lll
- 10 in cornville eko 40 quietly resting .185* in the tank things are ok...

 

[jebatty]

The EKO 25 had a hard time keeping up.

At a rated output of 85,000 btuh, you probably have to estimate about 50-60,000 btuh average output. Flue temps of 450F are not likely to be unusual during high burn. My Tarm on high burn, and if the firetubes have not been recently brushed, will reach 450F, although even with clean tubes high burn flue temp above 400F is normal. I also have the chain turbulators. I can damper down the draft fan and reduce flue temp, but flue temp is closely related to btu output, that is, higher flue temp = more btu output to hot water.

We hit -20F the night of Dec 31-Jan 1. I also burned about 6 hours on Jan 1, raised storage tank temperature from 90F to 187F while drawing about 40,000 btuh for 4 hours to heat the shop. Burned 185 lbs of pine with a little birch. Time of burn and time for heat draw are not exact, so this is approximate: Total btu's burned = 185 x 6050 = 1,119,000; btu's to storage = 97 x 8.34 x1000 = 809,000; btu's to radiant floor = 40,000 x 4 = 160,000; efficiency = 967,000 / 1,119,000 = 86%.

 

[jebatty]

Another comment "on not being able to keep up." Depending on your plumbing arrangement and flow requirements, it is possible that some zones are being "starved" for heat because nothing is available from higher priority zones, either by priority zoning or by plumbing arrangement.

I would not be surprised to learn that the 240' round trip from the boiler also is a source of your problem, either or both by insufficient flow or insufficient insulation. At delta-T = 20, you need to move 8.5 gpm to achieve 85,000 btuh. Pump head in 1" steel pipe at this rate is 15.2 feet, plus head in plumbing beyond the 240' run. Head for 1.25" steel pipe is 5 feet. If you are using pex, the pump head goes up.Your plumbing needs a design to handle required flow.

While the Eko 25 may be the source of your perceived problem, it is just as likely that the source is other than the Eko.

 

[PassionForFire&Water]

I agree with Jebatty!
Selection of pump/circulator and plumbing aspects are the most important aspect.

I experienced it myself, once again, by troubleshooting a pellet boiler setup yesterday.

It was a non-presurized system setup, but the Taco 0011 was to big and cavitating. You can not move heat by having air in the lines.

Then we installed a 007 that was laying around. It took care of the cavitation, but now this pump could only move at max 10 GPM's what is not enough for a 170,000 BTU/hr WP170 pellet boiler.

At the end of the day we installed a 008, what does more then 20 GPM and all was fine after this.

So, a 1 or 2 hour intervention became a 10 hour day.

Got confirmation, once more, that BTU/hr = 500 x GPM x dT

Most important formula in the boiler world (Bob Rohr)

(broken link removed to http://www.taco-hvac.com/uploads/FileLibrary/SelectingCirculators.pdf)

 

[Gasifier]

Well the Wood Gun was not maxed out after all. Probably close though. It took several hours for it to "catch up", but if did. Earlier in the evening I had done a complete cleaning of boiler. Then left and went to parents house for bowl of homemade soup. When I returned and boiler wasn't running I thought that is odd that it hasn't turned on yet.? That's because you never turned the switch back to the ON position Einstein! So the boiler ran non stop from 6:30 to sometime after I went to bed. Woke up at 1:30 and checked it. Boiler in idle mode, temp at 180, buffer tank at 180. NICE!

 

[Gasifier]

AC, that load worked great! But because of having left the boiler off for several hours and all that demand, it ate through it fast. I could not fit it all in the boiler when I went to bed, but I put the rest in at 1:30 when I was up. It had eaten through half of it from 10:30 to 1:30! There was constant demand and buffer was not to temp. The boiler did very well when having to make up for my mistake.

 

[avc8130]

AC, that load worked great! But because of having left the boiler off for several hours and all that demand, it ate through it fast. I could not fit it all in the boiler when I went to bed, but I put the rest in at 1:30 when I was up. It had eaten through half of it from 10:30 to 1:30! There was constant demand and buffer was not to temp. The boiler did very well when having to make up for my mistake.

They sure can burn some wood!

ac

 

[ihookem]

A lot of this is over my head with lbs of head and all that stuff. The first thing I did was get the best underground pipe the installer could get. It was 14 bucks a ft. 3 years ago. It is at least 3ft. in the ground. As of now there is still no frost in the ground neither from the 18" snow storm we got 2 weeks ago. I got a B&G p36 pump?? Its a 36 something and was told I have plenty of pump. If it's not I can get a bigger one and use the one I have for future hydronic zones in the basement. I have forced air right now. Anyway, to Jebatty, it's nice to know that some guys do get 450 temsp. When it's just humming along it is sometimes 375 or so if I don't push the burner hard. I think if it gets warm I'll take out the turbs but never did it before. Every time I take off that cover i get mad that they have such a bad design taking them out for cleaning. The wood is dry but Honestly though I think one of my problems is that my splits are too big. 4x4 are small and go 4x6" a lot of time. When I go with 3x3" wood it goes pretty good but I hate splitting wood that small.

 

[Fred61]

Gasifier, I have a 2200 sq. ft ranch with 9' walls. Insulation can't be better. I have 4-5 " foam in walls, brick, foames floor joists, and r60 in the ceiling with energy heel trusses that were also foamed . The boiler is 120 ft from the house. I am sure it would be better to have it in the house though. I read Goosegunner has 250 degree flue temps. I have 450 last time I checked. This could be some of the problem. I just don't see how ya get the stupid things out of the EKO 25 super. Very poor design. I might go into it tomorrow and clean it out a bit to see what happens.

The flue temp on my 25 also runs about 450 and I had been satisfied with it until I saw some of the low temperatures reported here. I find it interesting that some flue temps are only 60 degrees above boiler temperature. I am heating 1000 sq. ft. of very well insulated space and light one fire per day at about 4:00 to 4:30 every day in the dead of winter. BTW, It should be in my signature but I have 500 gallons of unpressurized storage. On average, the top of the tank is registering 135 to 140 degrees at that time of day. Normally I burn for about 3.5 to 4 hours to bring the tank to 175 to184, depending on my estimate on the amount of wood I load. If the temp is within those perameters and the wood is all coals, I shut off the master switch on the controller and call it a night.
Yesterday was a dark (no sun) cold day and just before my daily firing schedule, all zones were on so the storage came up much slower than normal. I had to add wood twice to the fire. I want to point out that I almost never fill the firebox for fear of having unburned, creosote producing wood in there if the storage becomes satisfied iad she goes into idle. Well my burn lasted a little over 5 hours before the tank reached 183 degrees. (long burn for me). This morning the thermometer read -10.5 and the tank temperature was 156. Won't be the same this afternoon at fire time because the sun is shining and it's 73 degrees in here.

I started experimenting with chain turbulators two days ago and I wasn't able to see any difference in the flue temp. Reduced the fan shutter opening and saw a very slight drop in temp but nothing to write home about. I don't want to reduce the fan speed any more since it is set to 50% and the starting torque is greatly diminished.

I'm not getting too excited about flue temps since it's working way beyond my expectations. I'm warm, spend little time tending, and only burn slightly over 3 cords per year.

 

[jebatty]

Although some report very low temperatures, into the 300's or so, I never have been concerned so long as temps stay under about 450F. In fact for the Tarm, it will not produce its rated output at temps below 400F, and it will produce rated and even somewhat above rated output during high burn in the 420-450 range with clean fire tubes. It seems that 380-420F is where my Tarm "purrs." With this operation, now into my sixth heating season, the flue remains nearly clean (brush it at the end of the season, only fine dust), and except for a thin coating of scaly creosote in the firebox, everything else remains clean in the guts of the boiler. The refractory is original and remains in good condition. Before I installed the turbulators, flue temps were regularly in the 500-600F range, and the turbulators dropped flue temp about 100F.

The motto "if it isn't broken, don't fix it" applies well in my experience.

 

[mikefrommaine]

^^^
Is that with a flue probe or a stick on thermometer?

Anyone know the correction factor for a stick on thermometer? Obviously it's going to read lower, but by how much?

 

[Fred61]

Magnetic thermometer reads about 175 to 200 degrees colder but I use it as a quick reference as to how the fire is performing. The dial probe thermometer is not in service 100% of the time. Just check internal tepmerature when magnetic thermometer starts reading higher.