Following in Woodsplitters recent post about going solar, I recently met with an installer. It would be a rooftop 6K system using 15 REC alpha series pure 400wp panels with enphase IQ7+ inverters. I was quoted $23000 ($17000 after tax credit). This seems a bit high based on everything I have read but I am ignorant of what it actually does cost to have panels installed. Does anybody have a thought on this? Thanks for your time.
cost of solar panels
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Did they break down the cost estimate? How much electrical infrastructure change will be needed at the house?
No. Basically, the price covers everything--the equipment, labor, engineering, permits, inspections, etc. All I have to do is give them a check and they do it all. When I asked what all is involved electrical-wise, basically it will run from the panels into the attic then out a gable end down to the meter can. The power company will then switch out the meter with a net-metering (bi-directional) meter. Nothing was implied about any changes on the interior or with the breaker panel. They will however switch out my current programmable thermostat with an Ecobee. I am not really sure why this is needed but supposedly it adds to the overall efficiency of the system. Not yet convinced on that part.
That sounds quite high. The rule of thumb for last several years is $3 per installed watt pre rebate with competitive markets getting down to $2.75. There currently is hiccup in the supply of solar panels so panel availability is difficult for small installers. It they are running it down to the meter can, they are doing a line side tap which does a bit more materials than running to main panel.
Solarguy3500
Feeling the Heat
While I agree that recent years have seen cost per watt in that range, that tends to be on larger systems 10 - 15 kW or so. OP is talking about a small 6 kW system, so I'd expect the CPW to be higher than that, especially with a premium panel like the REC Alpha.
Also, you mentioned the recent disruption in panel availability, and the other impact of that is that panel prices have gone up recently.
Just for giggles, I tried running this system through my pricer with 15 of the REC Alpha panels and IQ8+ micro inverters and I got a price around $25,000 so that $23,000 price might not be too bad. I don't know the market in OP's area, though.
You guys are lucky I got a quote up here in northern Canada and it was 45000$ after rebates. And that was 9-10k system. I know a few neighbours have done it and even with the price point a bit higher say it pays off in a few years
I was looking at the OPs location and was speculating that the labor cost might be lower in Missouri than in area with higher labor costs (like Massachusetts). We also do not know how long the cable runs are and I had to guess if its line side tap or a tie into a main panel with enough bus bar rating capacity (200 Amp). Some contractors were getting away in my area with doing line side taps directly in the meter box without installing a separate box or a box with separate compartment. The local utility put a stop to that.
All of my arrays except the first small one were installed by myself with panels from major firms that decided to get out of business or bankruptcies. I bought my first 4 Sharp panels at $6 bucks a watt 20 years ago.
I guess I should have suggested that the OP wait, the panel shortage is potentially a short term thing, the panels are still being made its just a potential tariff that is being challenged. The bigger issue is that the Koch Brothers and some electric utilities are and have been fighting solar incentives state by state including pulling back incentives that were in place. They have been quite successful in some states (like the recent solar rules in Florida). Thus a homeowner needs to take into account how solar friendly their state is currently and where it may be in the future.
All of my arrays except the first small one were installed by myself with panels from major firms that decided to get out of business or bankruptcies. I bought my first 4 Sharp panels at $6 bucks a watt 20 years ago.
I guess I should have suggested that the OP wait, the panel shortage is potentially a short term thing, the panels are still being made its just a potential tariff that is being challenged. The bigger issue is that the Koch Brothers and some electric utilities are and have been fighting solar incentives state by state including pulling back incentives that were in place. They have been quite successful in some states (like the recent solar rules in Florida). Thus a homeowner needs to take into account how solar friendly their state is currently and where it may be in the future.
Thanks for all the feedback guys. There are so many rabbit holes you can go down when it comes to solar installation. I was just trying to establish a base point on average cost. I will be getting 2 more bids this week so I will see how it compares.
Solarguy-thanks for doing a cost comparision. That does help put things in perspective.
Im sure being in the middle of the country our costs cant really be compared to those on the coasts.
Missouri did offer incentives but they have expired. I believe the only "incentive" left is a law that you cant be assessed a higher value on your property if you have solar panels.
Our energy provider, Evergy, doesnt exactly roll out the red carpet to go solar. Why would they. They limit the system size and offer a 1:1 credit on net-metering that carries over monthly but does expire at year end. However, my credits (for overproduction) are worth 0.024 kWhr to 0.12 that I would have to use/buy from them for under producing. I realize why the cost difference, just saying its not exactly a 1:1. Also, I will still have a customer connection charge and surge protection charge and all taxes related to that. They local municipality mandates you stay connected to the grid.
As far as DYI, you cant. Both the utility and city require a licensed electrician.
Solarguy-thanks for doing a cost comparision. That does help put things in perspective.
Im sure being in the middle of the country our costs cant really be compared to those on the coasts.
Missouri did offer incentives but they have expired. I believe the only "incentive" left is a law that you cant be assessed a higher value on your property if you have solar panels.
Our energy provider, Evergy, doesnt exactly roll out the red carpet to go solar. Why would they. They limit the system size and offer a 1:1 credit on net-metering that carries over monthly but does expire at year end. However, my credits (for overproduction) are worth 0.024 kWhr to 0.12 that I would have to use/buy from them for under producing. I realize why the cost difference, just saying its not exactly a 1:1. Also, I will still have a customer connection charge and surge protection charge and all taxes related to that. They local municipality mandates you stay connected to the grid.
As far as DYI, you cant. Both the utility and city require a licensed electrician.
Being up in rural NH , the labor cost for a local journeyman is almost half of what it is in Eastern Mass. Net metering with required yearly expiration or cash out requires some planning as they inevitably seem to cash out the program at the worst time of the year, usually winter so that summer credits can not be carried over.
BTW the government just waived tariffs on panels on imported panels for two years. Panels pricing will drop soon once the supply chain fills up.
www.reuters.com
Exclusive: Biden to waive tariffs for 24 months on solar panels hit by probe
President Joe Biden will declare a 24-month tariff exemption on Monday for solar panels from four Southeast Asian nations after an investigation froze imports and stalled projects in the United States, sources familiar with the matter told Reuters.
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Got a second bid this week from a local company. A 6.6K system using 18 Silfab Prime panels with IQ8+ inverters for $21600 ($16000 after tax credit).
Yeah I found I ver difficult to get any other installers even close to my 2.73 per watt price. I have a signed contract but no install date of yet. This is my design 28 rec alpha 405 with iq8M'S
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Woodsplitter67
Minister of Fire
I think comparing cost to systems pre pandemic is not accurate. When my system was installed labor material fuel ect were much lower. Id check to see what the ROI would be. if its reasonable then its worth doing. if the ROI is way out there id be having second thoughts.
EbS-P
Minister of Fire
I often see that people compare pre pandemic prices and I agree that this is not accurate. Times has been changed as prices.
Woodsplitter67
Minister of Fire
Id still do a system even if the ROI was longer. The life of the system say 25 years.. To break even say at 8/10 years.. then your living at least 15/17 years with no or a little utility bill
None of us can predict the future. Solar was expensive back when we bought our system. In addition to the installation, it also needed trenching to get the wiring to the house and a new panel. That extended the payback period to 10 yrs. We are now past the break-even point. Whatever we get now is gravy. If electrical rates go up, so does the benefit. Same with our Volt. It was expensive when we bought it, but now with higher fuel prices, the payback is accelerating. In summertime, thanks to solar, the mileage is essentially free.
Same with me, about 25 years ago the solar hot water went in, 20 years ago the first small solar system went in and since then two more permanent arrays and an upgrade to one of them have occurred.
We got a revised bid after an on-site meeting with a local installer. He knocked off an additional $1500 AND told us that our electric provider (Evergy) does still have a rebate initiative that expires at the end of 2022. We will get a check for $1600 once installation is complete so this reduces our out-of-pocket cost to $13000 for that 6.6K system.
Our ROI is still on the long side. ROI is an important consideration but ultimately we are doing this to basically "lock in" electricity rates for the next 25 years. Also, this is a cash deal- Im not sure in todays enviroment where I can park that money and get a much better ROI in 8-10 years.
Our ROI is still on the long side. ROI is an important consideration but ultimately we are doing this to basically "lock in" electricity rates for the next 25 years. Also, this is a cash deal- Im not sure in todays enviroment where I can park that money and get a much better ROI in 8-10 years.
Woodsplitter67
Minister of Fire
if you dont mined me asking.. how long will it take for the system to pay for itself
IF electric rates were to stay the same and the system produces a true net-zero result-- 8.8 years.
EbS-P
Minister of Fire
Seems like it’s a solid decision. I don’t see how power rates don’t go up and stay there for quite some time. If I had the cash on hand, and a decent location that would get Sun I’d probably do the install. I do think power generation rates for renewables will keep dropping some but twitch materials and labor up we will probably see that flatline for a bit. but I don’t see a a good green solution for base load in the short term, storage is probably the best.
9 year or less ROI to be green seems like a good decision Next 16+ years it is making money for you.
Woodsplitter67
Minister of Fire
Yes.. 8 yrs is not bad and the savings covers any payment.. so.. good decision
When I bought my first 5.3 kW array, payback was calculated at 16 years based on electricity at $0.10/kWh. 4 years later I added another 10 kW. Last winter, electricity was $0.20/kWh a couple of months in a row, and it is routinely now $0.12 to $0.14/kWh. I'm not going to have to wait 16 years from install to get my money back.
My utility in NH just announced a 115% increase in power costs (to over 21 cents plus a transmission charge and a few other surcharges) starting August 1st for the winter period (6 months). I rolled the dice years ago and put in solar on a rate plan that was grandfathered, and it was effectively a onetime admission charge for effectively free power. I am glad I paid it when I did.
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