Dealing with bad dealers (quadrafire)

[Andrei]

so we bought a new house early this year and the top floor comes with a stove and electric heat. I never had a woodstove in a house before. The stove was made in early 70s and from my experience running it this early spring it wasn't too adequate to heat the top floor well and it may have had some minor leaks. The previous owner hasn't done much in terms of maintenance on anything in the last 20 years.


Ok, so now we were trying to buy a new stove, hopefully better built, bigger capacity. We settled on Quadrafire Adventure III, went to our local dealer this Spring. I asked the guy what's the best time to buy, what timeframes we are talking about to get it into a house. He says it doesn't matter, you order any time, spring, summer or fall, it takes two weeks and we'll deliver it right away as it arrives. $150 to the curb, +$150 into the house.

September comes, we place an order. I ask the guy, how are you delivering it, how can I help (I got tractor with forks) He says: couple of guys will bring it in by hand. I reply: the brochure says it's 630#s ... two of your guys are going to lift it? Now he is trying to find the specs online (which btw says it's 400# ... go figure) and then he says that he has to get back to me on delivery price, since it's a bigger stove etc. but two weeks.

Well, the salesguy never calls but two weeks later I get a call from some subcontractor (which somehow relates to the owner) and they are booked 3 weeks ahead, because they are busier in the fall. That's good to know, even better to know that in the spring. I call the guy and he is giving me an attitude, if you don't like it come pick it up yourself or call some other people to deliver the stove. Honestly, if I could back out of this deal, I would and just go do business somewhere else, but the stove is already at the dealer.


This "dealership" had a couple of positive reviews and they are close to us. I don't understand the concept of the "dealership" where sales people don't know what they are selling and seems clueless on how to deliver the stoves that they sell. Is this normal in the stove world? It seems to me that if I want to do all my own research, deliver it myself and service, I can go to a big box store or buy online. How these "dealerships" make their money, because salesguy said they make no commission. Quadrafire should kick some money back to them to keep the lights on. Is there anyway to back out now, should I (because I'm not too keen dealing with him should I need a service call)? May be the guy isn't bad at all, this is normal, you tell me.

 

[BrotherBart]

Call a couple of local chimney sweeps. Most of them do installs and your chances of them knowing what they are doing is better. Not guaranteed, but better.

 

[Lake Girl]

www.csia.org/search will help you find a certified sweep near you

 

[iceman2424]

I think, sadly, its normal. I too bought a stove recently. Fresh out of the box, the door wasn't level - would only latch if I put it in a camel clutch and wrestled it in. Manual was outdated so I couldn't level it myself...called the dealer and they said, "sure we will come out and level it for $85." Me = not happy.

 

[Ashful]

Not normal, but something we see from time to time. Reading hundreds of dealer experiences here, most are decent folks, even if they are lacking on technical knowledge of the product.


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[JA600L]

Hire a moving company to deliver it and put it on the hearth. Then have the dealer install it. He doesn't want to break his back and I don't blame him.

 

[Andrei]

well, we aren't talking about some rocket science here. Dealer needs to be aware that stove is 600+#s and you need more than a couple of guys to deliver it, that fall is a busy season when you got long delivery wait. None of this is hard.

People complain about not buying American, not supporting mom & pop shops. Well, in my case the "dealer" simply opened a browser with his account to place the order. He is a middleman that brings nothing of value to the table. If I have to do my own research, hire moving companies and deal with other aspects, I'd rather gone to a place that offers online sales at a discount, plain and simple. I am just regretting getting suckered into this dealership business.


This is what I believe a real dealer should offer:
1. Know the product that I sell
2. Know how to deliver, install and service it

I can see that there is a value in that, not to deal with those headaches, but I see dealers become a middlemen who sucking off revenue and provide nothing in return.

 

[Lake Girl]

Problem with many of the larger stove companies is that you can only get warranty and parts from a dealer...

 

[bholler]

well, we aren't talking about some rocket science here. Dealer needs to be aware that stove is 600+#s and you need more than a couple of guys to deliver it

No you really don't we almost never have more that 2 guys.

People complain about not buying American, not supporting mom & pop shops. Well, in my case the "dealer" simply opened a browser with his account to place the order. He is a middleman that brings nothing of value to the table. If I have to do my own research, hire moving companies and deal with other aspects, I'd rather gone to a place that offers online sales at a discount, plain and simple. I am just regretting getting suckered into this dealership business.

But then what do you do if you have an issue? Yes there are some bad dealers but there are also very many good dealers. And they are offering something in return even if they are not that great they have a showroom where you can go and see the stoves. That costs lots of money and they need to make money to have it.

 

[Lake Girl]

Andrei, As to the weight of the stove, perhaps the 400# weight is for the stove body not including the firebrick jnstalled or the door assembly on? The total weight quoted in the brochure is so the consumer understands the weight stressor that will be placed in a small area on their floor. Because of the weight, some flooring joists may have to be beefed up to carry the weight. Hearth may be additional weight. So, there is a difference between assembled weight and individual component weight.

As to the wait time, why did you wait until heating season to get moving on this? I would have wanted it all done early so I had time to figure it out before heating season got started. As to backing out of the deal, it will be the same story at the other stove shops. Take some ownership for waiting so long.

Do you have your wood at 20% moisture content so you ready to burn?

 

[Andrei]

Andrei, As to the weight of the stove, perhaps the 400# weight is for the stove body not including the firebrick jnstalled or the door assembly on? The total weight quoted in the brochure is so the consumer understands the weight stressor that will be placed in a small area on their floor. Because of the weight, some flooring joists may have to be beefed up to carry the weight. Hearth may be additional weight. So, there is a difference between assembled weight and individual component weight.

As to the wait time, why did you wait until heating season to get moving on this? I would have wanted it all done early so I had time to figure it out before heating season got started. As to backing out of the deal, it will be the same story at the other stove shops. Take some ownership for waiting so long.

Do you have your wood at 20% moisture content so you ready to burn?

The total weight is 630#, that was what also marked on the crate as it came in. Firebrick was in too, but I doubt that it would help much to remove it.

In terms of waiting til fall, I asked "dealer" when is the best time to buy, timing on discounts and promotions and if during fall there are delays. He said, it makes no difference, 2 weeks flat, spring, summer or fall.

The simple reason for this craziness is that he didn't realize the weight. They do installs with a couple of guys and not until I told him that it's 630# that he figured that he'll get their sister store involved. I don't know why or what the plan was, it was more like they didn't have one and didn't want to deal with it. That's sad. This is top of the line stove, you'd figure they want to get experience installing these. I told him that I got a tractor with forks and would help, but literally, every sentence was: hey call these guys to install this for you or why don't you do it yourself.

Well, I did do it myself: https://www.hearth.com/talk/threads/630-stove-one-man-installation-in-pics.156978/
As a professional, it would tick me off greatly to have a noob come and do my job.


Yes, I have enough wood (so I think) + some extra and I have been working on building a stash for the next season all this summer. I should be in good shape hopefully. I don't know how much wood it would take, this is our first winter. I'm planning on about 4 cords as a minimum, +2 extra if I need it (I should be able to calculate that in the first month)

 

[Woody Stover]

Most stove makers only sell through dealers, not online. If it were me, I would find a certified sweep...they will know how to move the stove in and hook it up, the right way. There's one sweep in our area that some of my in-laws used in the past. I found out later that he wasn't certified, and I've had to correct some if his shoddy workmanshi...p that he did replacing a cat. His chimney install at my MIL's was OK as far as I could tell. Another installer that my BIL got somewhere (claimed he used to work for the stove shop) was a hack as well. Maybe he used to cut the grass at the stove shop. I had to re-do the support box installation to the chimney maker's specs, and replace black pipe off the stove with something that actually fit. Sheesh.

 

[branchburner]

The total weight is 630#,
In terms of waiting til fall, I asked "dealer" when is the best time to buy, timing on discounts and promotions and if during fall there are delays. He said, it makes no difference, 2 weeks flat, spring, summer or fall.

It amazes me that two pros can move and install a 500-600# stove, without additional help, but I've seen it done.

No responsible retailer, of anything, ever tells a customer that he can guarantee that availability, price and turnaround time will be exactly the same at the moment of peak demand (like the day before Christmas) as it will be in periods of slack demand.

You are exactly right in what you should expect from a dealer: added value. The fact is, some retailers add negative value when they provide misinformation or steer customers towards the wrong products. (In politics, this is of course the norm.) But I would say that is the exception in retail, thanks to competition, which inspires many goods-and-service providers to go above and beyond and gain loyal word-of-mouth support.

 

[Andrei]

It amazes me that two pros can move and install a 500-600# stove, without additional help, but I've seen it done.

No responsible retailer, of anything, ever tells a customer that he can guarantee that availability, price and turnaround time will be exactly the same at the moment of peak demand (like the day before Christmas) as it will be in periods of slack demand.

You are exactly right in what you should expect from a dealer: added value. The fact is, some retailers add negative value when they provide misinformation or steer customers towards the wrong products. (In politics, this is of course the norm.) But I would say that is the exception in retail, thanks to competition, which inspires many goods-and-service providers to go above and beyond and gain loyal word-of-mouth support.

I never bought a stove before so I wasn't sure how all that works. I can see that for a smaller stove, a couple of guys can do it and it doesn't seem like they have a tonne of business, I can see two people from the floor can deliver the stove the moment it comes in. Two weeks is really for Quad to make the stove and deliver it to the dealer.

I was buying a tractor earlier this year. Some dealers were pain, some a-holes, but everyone of them knew their tractors real well and could handle logistics like having right trailers for each tractor, all the ins and out of the laws/registration/taxes, also all of them well setup to do service, come out for service etc. Comparing that to this stove dealer was frankly a disappointment.

Once thing salesperson said, he is not working on commission which can explain the apathetic attitude. They are in a nice location, so traffic to the store will be there no matter what. Our initial visit went pretty smooth, they were good to talk to, but perhaps I just wasn't asking the right questions.

 

[Lake Girl]

... Well, I did do it myself: https://www.hearth.com/talk/threads/630-stove-one-man-installation-in-pics.156978/...
Yes, I have enough wood (so I think) + some extra and I have been working on building a stash for the next season all this summer. I should be in good shape hopefully. I don't know how much wood it would take, this is our first winter. I'm planning on about 4 cords as a minimum, +2 extra if I need it (I should be able to calculate that in the first month)

Really well done plan to get the stove in place! Congrats... You've got the big burly brother compared to our machine. Agree with Ashful that the lift would be tricky.

I'm sending wishes for trouble free operation so you have to have minimal contact with the dealer.

Glad you have wood in place. If nervous on amount, you could always add bio bricks to supplement the stock.

Waiting for pics of first burn...

 

[bholler]

I can see that for a smaller stove, a couple of guys can do it and it doesn't seem like they have a tonne of business, I can see two people from the floor can deliver the stove the moment it comes in. Two weeks is really for Quad to make the stove and deliver it to the dealer.

2 of us delivered and installed a regency 5100 last week. That is just as heavy as your stove if not more. If they know what they are doing and have the right equipment it is not a problem. And quad is not making the stoves to order they are sitting in a warehouse waiting for orders.

And by the way nice job getting that big boy into place by yourself.

 

[BigDogYooper]

wow-interesting debate about quality service, I have to chime in my dumb opinion as a old fart seeing this country going to chit in a hand basket.
1. a piece of paper (certified) means NOTHING TO ME, means you can read is
all that means.
2. I have known 2 cert master mechs that could barley change your oil, but they could read and take test.
3. this is a world these days where you better do your homework about anything you buy and do yourself. None of it is ROCKET SCIENCE.
4. find a contractor that can build a square building is a joke, throw everything up or together and shim or cover gap is the way its done 99% of the time, and if your not watching everything your in for a surprise later.
5. bottom line is you better do homework and watch all work done your paying for, basically be your own contractor if you cant do it yourself.

 

[tarzan]

A friend of mine brought his ATV jack to help out when we swapped stoves here. That thing seemed to be custom built for moving wood stoves......providing you don't have carpet.

With the tractor on the outside and the ATV jack on the inside we made easy work of moving a couple #400 stoves.

 

[Jags]

Last stove I helped move was an Enerzone 2.9. At 420# me and my neighbor just picked it up and walked it in. Two guys that are a little smarter and have proper equipment shouldn't have much trouble moving a wood stove.

 

[branchburner]

3. this is a world these days where you better do your homework about anything you buy and do yourself. None of it is ROCKET SCIENCE.

Agree. Good news is, this is a world these days where you CAN do your homework, thanks to the internet... you don't have to learn the hard way (by getting screwed) as much as in the past. It's a lot easier these days to learn from the mistakes of others instead of having to make them yourself.

 

[EatenByLimestone]

I purchased a stove from a dealer. I can't say much about him, but the stove is a good one. I moved and installed it.

Why didn't your old stove heat? What was the problem?

 

[Ashful]

Why didn't your old stove heat? What was the problem?

You did catch that it was over 40 years old?

 

[EatenByLimestone]

Yup. But that doesn't mean it won't put out heat. Stoves with cracks and rust holes will put out heat, sometimes uncontrollably. There may be safety issues with his old stove too, but he only mentioned no heat and a lack of maintenance by the previous owner.

I'm just wondering if wood quality doesn't have a part in this, or even a clogged chimney. I don't want the guy to drop a few thousand only to find out the issue was something other than the stove.

 

[Andrei]

that stove was fairly small for the room, it leaked (pissing off wife ) and it wasn't very efficient, I can see that compared to the new stove.

The new stove has plenty of capacity to easily heat the top floor and enough heat to pipe some heat downstairs (to save on electric baseboard) and it got some fancy features like thermostat.

I'm not throwing away the old stove, I'll put it to use in a garage or another place. I believe that previous owners used it for decorative purposes only, not as the heat source for the house.


The efficiency is pretty dramatic. I used the same stack of wood and without any specific numbers or calculations, the new stove is at least twice as good to heat more the floor to higher temp from the same few logs and similar outside temps.

Yup. But that doesn't mean it won't put out heat. Stoves with cracks and rust holes will put out heat, sometimes uncontrollably. There may be safety issues with his old stove too, but he only mentioned no heat and a lack of maintenance by the previous owner.

I'm just wondering if wood quality doesn't have a part in this, or even a clogged chimney. I don't want the guy to drop a few thousand only to find out the issue was something other than the stove.