Detuned?

[Easy Livin’ 3000]

Keep reading about detuned pro versions of pro chainsaws. What does it mean, why do they do it, and can they be re-tuned?

 

[woodhog73]

Keep reading about detuned pro versions of pro chainsaws. What does it mean, why do they do it, and can they be re-tuned?

You see this with Husky and Jonsered I'm sure just a way to increase product line offering. Stihl does not do this. I would imagine marketing and product line reasons.

Example. I bought a new Jonsered 2166 a few years back. It's identical saw to a Jonsered 2172. The Husky versions are the 365 and 372xp. The only difference between the saws is there is a divider in the transfer port cover that reduces the power on the 2166 and 365 by roughly 1/2 hp from the 2172 and 372. The sticker says 2166 instead of 2172, and it only has the inside felling spike, not both spikes. Thats it. Every other part is the same they are the exact same saws.

The lower hp version is between $100 and $150 less depending on dealer. Everything else is identical. You can grind the divider out yourself for free or have a mechanic do it for $50 bucks ( any more than that is too much in my opinion) and then you have essentially a 2172 or 372 for $650 ( give or take a few bucks) brand new . Once the divider is ground out it bumps the power up roughly 1/2 hp.

If you don't care about the 1/2 hp difference then you can get a 2166 for $650 to $700 new and don't bother grinding the transfer cover. $650 bucks is a good deal for a professional 70cc saw that has been around on the same chassis since the 1990s and is more than proven itself over the years.

Or you can buy the 2172 or 372xp and pay closer to $850 to $900.

I went the " I will grind the cover for free" route and basically paid $650 for a brand new 2172/372 xp. This does void the warranty however.

Jonsered / Husky does this with the pro 60cc ( 2260 and 2258 and 562 and 555) and the pro 50cc ( 2253 and 2252 and 550 and 545) although I'm not sure about how they reduce power in those. I'm only familiar with the 70cc versions as it relates to the 1/2 hp difference.

Just goes to show you the profit margins must be large because in my example the same saw cost less and it requires the company to manufacture 2 different transfer port covers. Strange I know. Not sure why they do it.

Hope that helps.

 

[Wildo]

You see this with Husky and Jonsered I'm sure just a way to increase product line offering. Stihl does not do this. I would imagine marketing and product line reasons.

Example. I bought a new Jonsered 2166 a few years back. It's identical saw to a Jonsered 2172. The Husky versions are the 365 and 372xp. The only difference between the saws is there is a divider in the transfer port cover that reduces the power on the 2166 and 365 by roughly 1/2 hp from the 2172 and 372. The sticker says 2166 instead of 2172, and it only has the inside felling spike, not both spikes. Thats it. Every other part is the same they are the exact same saws.

The lower hp version is between $100 and $150 less depending on dealer. Everything else is identical. You can grind the divider out yourself for free or have a mechanic do it for $50 bucks ( any more than that is too much in my opinion) and then you have essentially a 2172 or 372 for $650 ( give or take a few bucks) brand new . Once the divider is ground out it bumps the power up roughly 1/2 hp.

If you don't care about the 1/2 hp difference then you can get a 2166 for $650 to $700 new and don't bother grinding the transfer cover. $650 bucks is a good deal for a professional 70cc saw that has been around on the same chassis since the 1990s and is more than proven itself over the years.

Or you can buy the 2172 or 372xp and pay closer to $850 to $900.

I went the " I will grind the cover for free" route and basically paid $650 for a brand new 2172/372 xp. This does void the warranty however.

Jonsered / Husky does this with the pro 60cc ( 2260 and 2258 and 562 and 555) and the pro 50cc ( 2253 and 2252 and 550 and 545) although I'm not sure about how they reduce power in those. I'm only familiar with the 70cc versions as it relates to the 1/2 hp difference.

Just goes to show you the profit margins must be large because in my example the same saw cost less and it requires the company to manufacture 2 different transfer port covers. Strange I know. Not sure why they do it.

Hope that helps.

Good question... Why do they do it?

 

[woodhog73]

Good question... Why do they do it?

Don't know. Marketing or product line expansion not sure.

Stihl does not do this and if I had to guess it's because they donot want to devalue their homeowner and farm line of saws.

Husky and Jonsered on the other hand has a perfectly good line of homeowner and farm saws in their rancher line up. They compete well with Stihls home and farm saws. However Huskys and Jonsereds home and farm saws are sold mostly through big box stores , a sales channel that Stihl has avoided ( unless you consider Ace Hardware big box store. )

If you want a pro ( or detuned pro ) Husky or Jonsered most often you will need to find a small dealer

So perhaps Husky and Jonsered are less concerned with a lower brand value on their home and farm saws than Stihl?

I'm guessing Husky and Jonsered have difficulty in competing with Stihl in the $600 and under price point. Users who spend more than $600 usually know what they want. Stihl is an excellent marketing company. So perhaps offering detuned pro saws at prices similar to Stihls plastic clamshell saws helps them make up the lack for equal brand awareness in that price point.

Husky and Jonsered may be assuming that customers are not comparing the prices of detuned pro saws and comparing them to the plastic rancher saws in the box stores . Perhaps they figure the 2 different markets donot share the same customer base ? Not sure.

But Stihl cares about the name "Stihl" in the market and they want homeowner customers who purchase for example a MS250 to not realize their plastic clamshell saw is any different from a pro MS 660 etc.

Just guessing.

Reality is they all cut wood. Even a cheaper Poulan cuts wood if maintained and is wearing a sharp chain

 

[firefighterjake]

I suspect it may be marketing . . .

I know when I get ready for a new saw I am looking at the 555 -- a detuned 562. In my case I am not a professional logger and do not need or want to pay the premium price for the extra horsepower, but I like the specs on the 555 and want something built a little more rugged than a home owner saw. The price for the 555 meets my needs.

 

[Easy Livin’ 3000]

Don't know. Marketing or product line expansion not sure.

Stihl does not do this and if I had to guess it's because they donot want to devalue their homeowner and farm line of saws.

Husky and Jonsered on the other hand has a perfectly good line of homeowner and farm saws in their rancher line up. They compete well with Stihls home and farm saws. However Huskys and Jonsereds home and farm saws are sold mostly through big box stores , a sales channel that Stihl has avoided ( unless you consider Ace Hardware big box store. )

If you want a pro ( or detuned pro ) Husky or Jonsered most often you will need to find a small dealer

So perhaps Husky and Jonsered are less concerned with a lower brand value on their home and farm saws than Stihl?

I'm guessing Husky and Jonsered have difficulty in competing with Stihl in the $600 and under price point. Users who spend more than $600 usually know what they want. Stihl is an excellent marketing company. So perhaps offering detuned pro saws at prices similar to Stihls plastic clamshell saws helps them make up the lack for equal brand awareness in that price point.

Husky and Jonsered may be assuming that customers are not comparing the prices of detuned pro saws and comparing them to the plastic rancher saws in the box stores . Perhaps they figure the 2 different markets donot share the same customer base ? Not sure.

But Stihl cares about the name "Stihl" in the market and they want homeowner customers who purchase for example a MS250 to not realize their plastic clamshell saw is any different from a pro MS 660 etc.

Just guessing.

Reality is they all cut wood. Even a cheaper Poulan cuts wood if maintained and is wearing a sharp chain

Thanks for your response Woodhog 73. Why wouldn't someone just buy the transfer port cover for the pro version rather than bother with grinding the divider down? I get that not having to have a whole separate design and manufacturing line while still offering a full product lineup makes some sense, if one is just trying to maximize profit, and assuming that your customer base would never be the wiser. If I bought a pro version and found out I could have saved a bunch of money by just grinding a little metal off of an easily accessible part, I guess I'd feel like a sucker.

 

[woodhog73]

Thanks for your response Woodhog 73. Why wouldn't someone just buy the transfer port cover for the pro version rather than bother with grinding the divider down? I get that not having to have a whole separate design and manufacturing line while still offering a full product lineup makes some sense, if one is just trying to maximize profit, and assuming that your customer base would never be the wiser. If I bought a pro version and found out I could have saved a bunch of money by just grinding a little metal off of an easily accessible part, I guess I'd feel like a sucker.

Not sure what the cost of the transfer port cover is. Good point though. Either way I imagine it will have a different part number so I'm sure from a warranty standpoint your out of luck either way.

Don't have the answers. But this is not new. Husky has been doing this for years.

Keep in mind in the case of the 70cc saws you also get the extra felling spike and probably better resale value for that extra cost of the 2172 / 372

But if you strictly care only about that bottom line, then why would anyone buy any pro stihl over any pro Husky/Jonsered / Dolmar saw when 99.9 percent of the time the Stihl is slightly more money ? There's no easy answer but for sure there's more to it than price.

And I like Stihl. I may be replacing my well run in 2166/2172 Johnny with a new Stihl 461. I'm liking 6hp at 14.5 lbs Husky doesn't offer that much power in a mid 14lb saw and I've been thinking of a new big saw anyways.

Just depends how good of a deal I can get on the Stihl.

 

[Easy Livin’ 3000]

Not sure what the cost of the transfer port cover is. Good point though. Either way I imagine it will have a different part number so I'm sure from a warranty standpoint your out of luck either way.

Don't have the answers. But this is not new. Husky has been doing this for years.

Keep in mind in the case of the 70cc saws you also get the extra felling spike and probably better resale value for that extra cost of the 2172 / 372

But if you strictly care only about that bottom line, then why would anyone buy any pro stihl over any pro Husky/Jonsered / Dolmar saw when 99.9 percent of the time the Stihl is slightly more money ? There's no easy answer but for sure there's more to it than price.

And I like Stihl. I may be replacing my well run in 2166/2172 Johnny with a new Stihl 461. I'm liking 6hp at 14.5 lbs Husky doesn't offer that much power in a mid 14lb saw and I've been thinking of a new big saw anyways.

Just depends how good of a deal I can get on the Stihl.

I'm a value guy, so if I could buy a part or two and save a hundred or two, I'd be for that. My experience with warranties has not been favorable (read Jetsam's recent experience with his new Dolmar). I've never owned a Stihl, so I can't comment on the Stihl experience, but I do not pay up for a brand and superior marketing.

 

[woodhog73]

I'm a value guy, so if I could buy a part or two and save a hundred or two, I'd be for that. My experience with warranties has not been favorable (read Jetsam's recent experience with his new Dolmar). I've never owned a Stihl, so I can't comment on the Stihl experience, but I do not pay up for a brand and superior marketing.

I've owned saws as well as various power equipment in just about all the major brands over the years. I've found it comes down to certain models in each brands lineup that are standouts more so than the brand itself.

I switched from Stihl to Husqvarna and Jonsered a few years back for chainsaws because of dealer service . But the products themselves are usually apples to apples comparisons they are usually comparable depending on the models.

If you want a pro saw at a good value than look into the saws mentioned in this post. You can certainly leave them stock just because it's " detuned " doesn't mean it's bad we are only talking 1/2 hp difference if that.

It's funny because Husky and Jonsered doesn't market them as " detuned". They market them as professional saws for part time users instead of professional saws for full time users. I'm guessing they figure the general buying public won't figure it out.

 

[dougand3]

Found a pic showing transfer covers.
L = Husky 365. R = Husky 372.



Mweba made a video of these 2 saws and conversion of 365 into 372:

 

[woodhog73]

That's a great picture. Clearly that little divider does something to lower power output. But it's minimal. Videos and timed cuts are one thing and they do show differences . But I've ran my 2166 stock for awhile and then converted to a 2172 and the difference in most cases is hardly noticeable. It's more noticeable with a 28 inch bar buried in hardwood. The 2172 with it's extra 1/2 hp can run a 28 inch bar with moderate authority. The 2166 struggles a little with a 28 inch bar in big wood. But honestly if I needed a 28 inch bar all the time in a heavy use environment or production environment I would have a bigger saw than 70cc regardless. For occasional use they both pull the 28 inch ok enough.

The difference is less so noticeable with the 24 inch bar. And with the 20 inch bar I'm hard pressed to notice any difference at all. Buried in dense wood or cutting small softwood little to no difference in my case with the smaller bar.

But like I mentioned there must be big profit margins because other than a $15 extra felling spike that cover is the only difference. And it costs the company to manufacture and stock 2 parts instead of 1.

I guess if you think your 2172/372 has too much power you could go the opposite way and put a transfer cover on with the divider ya right