Dutchwest by-pass help

[yankeesouth]

Okay….stupid question from probably an even more stupid rookie. I bought a used Consolidated Dutchwest ( FA264CCL model.) Installed it at camp. Got it to burn. BUTT! Once a good flame got going it seemed to smolder down fairly quickly (30-40 min), wood was dry and seasoned. Also smoke came out of the front when I opened the door (obviously a draft problem) . My question is this…..Where in the $%#% is the by-pass damper located? I think that may be contributing to my draft problem. To be honest……I am really not sure if the damper was open or closed when I fired it up. It has a flu damper in the back, is that the by-pass damper on this stove? It also has a CAT under the top plate. I did a forum search and internet search however I cannot seem to find an answer as to where the bypass damper is located and how to open/close the by-pass damper. Thanks in advance!

 

[dougand3]

Here is a parts diagram:
(broken link removed to http://www.blackswanhome.com/cdw-fa264ccl.html)

Here is a manual to DL:
http://www.google.com/url?sa=t&rct=...N40UjnkXlYXFomaSDNssg&bvm=bv.1355272958,d.eWU

 

[raybonz]

Okay….stupid question from probably an even more stupid rookie. I bought a used Consolidated Dutchwest ( FA264CCL model.) Installed it at camp. Got it to burn. BUTT! Once a good flame got going it seemed to smolder down fairly quickly (30-40 min), wood was dry and seasoned. Also smoke came out of the front when I opened the door (obviously a draft problem) . My question is this…..Where in the $%#% is the by-pass damper located? I think that may be contributing to my draft problem. To be honest……I am really not sure if the damper was open or closed when I fired it up. It has a flu damper in the back, is that the by-pass damper on this stove? It also has a CAT under the top plate. I did a forum search and internet search however I cannot seem to find an answer as to where the bypass damper is located and how to open/close the by-pass damper. Thanks in advance!

It is located on the left side near the top with a square shaft sticking out. To open the bypass turn it clockwise and CCW until you feel it latch to close the bypass and engage the cat. Always open the bypass before opening the door and do not close it until the cat temp probe reads 350-400 and watch that it goes to 650+ which means the cat is active. The bypass damper itself is located directly behind the cat. There is a learning curve to this stove. I found it runs best with the ash bin full, primary air always closed and adjustments made to secondary air only.

Ray

 

[yankeesouth]

Thanks for the replies. And I agree about the learning curve. I only burned this stove a few days/times and it wasn't pretty. Smoke, smoldering fires, 1-2 hour burns. Not what was I was anticipating or expecting.

Also, I don't plan on doing this but being this stove is an early model cat stove.....can you run it without the cat?

 

[seaken]

Thanks for the replies. And I agree about the learning curve. I only burned this stove a few days/times and it wasn't pretty. Smoke, smoldering fires, 1-2 hour burns. Not what was I was anticipating or expecting.

Also, I don't plan on doing this but being this stove is an early model cat stove.....can you run it without the cat?

That stove was designed as both a wood stove and a coal stove. So, technically you can take the cat out. That's why they made the griddle easy to open. But, by the book, you're supposed to burn wood only with the cat in place. Take the cat out to burn coal (which also requires modifying the firebox).

That stove often had issues with the damper. I recommend popping the top and servicing the damper parts. This will require some mechanical skills and will get messy. You also have to be careful when you pop the top to not break the seal of any other joints. If you can manage you may be able to service the damper parts through the griddle opening. Or maybe you'll get lucky and the damper is already working good and all you need is a handle or a pair of pliers.

 

[raybonz]

Thanks for the replies. And I agree about the learning curve. I only burned this stove a few days/times and it wasn't pretty. Smoke, smoldering fires, 1-2 hour burns. Not what was I was anticipating or expecting.

Also, I don't plan on doing this but being this stove is an early model cat stove.....can you run it without the cat?

I do not recommend running the stove with wood without a cat. That stove came with 3 brass handles so I hope you have one plus a handle for the shaker grates. You only need one brass handle though. The cats for that stove are 6"x2" round, easy and inexpensive to buy.I never ran coal and for that you have to remove the cat and replace it with the cast iron strainer and add the coal hopper parts.

Ray

 

[imacheezhead]

It is located on the left side near the top with a square shaft sticking out. To open the bypass turn it clockwise and CCW until you feel it latch to close the bypass and engage the cat. Always open the bypass before opening the door and do not close it until the cat temp probe reads 350-400 and watch that it goes to 650+ which means the cat is active. The bypass damper itself is located directly behind the cat. There is a learning curve to this stove. I found it runs best with the ash bin full, primary air always closed and adjustments made to secondary air only.

Ray

I think you and I discussed this several years ago. I can't recommend to anyone to run this stove or any stove with a full ash drawer. If you want to start a fire I found that I had much better results giving the fire draft from the bottom. Also, from my 25 year experience with this stove, if I notice the stove is getting sluggish and I'm having more trouble achieving proper CAT temp. It's usually due to a full ash drawer. Also I don't like having to let the fire go out to clean out the firebox.

When starting a new or building a weak fire I would also recommend keeping the bypass damper and the bottom door open for primary air until a good fire is established and then closing the bypass to heat the CAT. Trying to heat the CAT with the bypass open takes forever! Watch the CAT probe very closely and then close the bottom door when the CAT probe gets to around 600 deg. If the CAT is working properly, the probe should climb to around 1300 deg. If you can't achieve at least 1000 deg. then I would suspect a bad CAT. I can't say I ever did have trouble with the bypass damper except for re-roping it a long time ago. Overall I believe this stove is very reliable and I was never sorry I bought it!

 

[webby3650]

When starting a new or building a weak fire I would also recommend keeping the bypass damper and the bottom door open for primary air until a good fire is established and then closing the bypass to heat the CAT. Trying to heat the CAT with the bypass open takes forever! Watch the CAT probe very closely and then close the bottom door when the CAT probe gets to around 600 deg.

If you have to open the ash door to get a fire going, or the cat up to temp, it indicates a problem.
Shutting the by-pass before the cat is up to temp is also not normal. I'm not sure why this works for you, but it won't work for most cat stoves. In order to get the Cat up to temp properly, the by-pass needs to stay open.

 

[raybonz]

I think you and I discussed this several years ago. I can't recommend to anyone to run this stove or any stove with a full ash drawer. If you want to start a fire I found that I had much better results giving the fire draft from the bottom. Also, from my 25 year experience with this stove, if I notice the stove is getting sluggish and I'm having more trouble achieving proper CAT temp. It's usually due to a full ash drawer. Also I don't like having to let the fire go out to clean out the firebox.

When starting a new or building a weak fire I would also recommend keeping the bypass damper and the bottom door open for primary air until a good fire is established and then closing the bypass to heat the CAT. Trying to heat the CAT with the bypass open takes forever! Watch the CAT probe very closely and then close the bottom door when the CAT probe gets to around 600 deg. If the CAT is working properly, the probe should climb to around 1300 deg. If you can't achieve at least 1000 deg. then I would suspect a bad CAT. I can't say I ever did have trouble with the bypass damper except for re-roping it a long time ago. Overall I believe this stove is very reliable and I was never sorry I bought it!

Yes we had this conversation and I did find my CDW ran best with the ash bin full however it is gone now so no longer a problem.. I did retry emptying the ash bin but went back to keeping it full as it ran best this way and others have had the same results.. For some reason your stove seems to work best with an empty ash bin which is great.. BTW I sold the CDW for $350.00

Ray

 

[imacheezhead]

If you have to open the ash door to get a fire going, or the cat up to temp, it indicates a problem.
Shutting the by-pass before the cat is up to temp is also not normal. I'm not sure why this works for you, but it won't work for most cat stoves. In order to get the Cat up to temp properly, the by-pass needs to stay open.

Opening the ash door is a simple method for supplying primary air. I could just as well open the primary damper which would accomplish the same thing, but since I have the door open anyway to clean out the ashes I just leave it that way until my fire is going good and it doesn't take long either. Also, I said to keep the bypass closed to heat the CAT. If the bypass is open, all the gasses go up the flue rather than through the CAT, so the CAT takes eons to heat up. Maybe we're dealing with semantics here. When I say the bypass is open I mean the CAT is out of the loop. In other words, the CAT is bypassed. Normally my CAT runs at 1300 deg. and when it drops to around 500 - 600 I open the bypass, no primary air, open the door, put in more wood, close the door, close the bypass and watch the CAT temp climb back to 1300 deg. in less than half an hour. You can't get much better than that! Also I should say that I am running a steel CAT.

 

[webby3650]

said to keep the bypass closed to heat the CAT. If the bypass is open, all the gasses go up the flue rather than through the CAT, so the CAT takes eons to heat up.

I'm aware of how it works. I'm saying that the the cat should be by-passed until the cat is up to temp.
Also, the ashpan door should not be used to get a fire going. According to all the woodstove manufacturers.

 

[imacheezhead]

Yes we had this conversation and I did find my CDW ran best with the ash bin full however it is gone now so no longer a problem.. I did retry emptying the ash bin but went back to keeping it full as it ran best this way and others have had the same results.. For some reason your stove seems to work best with an empty ash bin which is great.. BTW I sold the CDW for $350.00

Ray

I noticed that you no longer have the CDW in your personals. How do you like Pacific Energy Alderlea T-5. I haven't visited this forum for a long, long time so I missed a lot I guess.

 

[raybonz]

I'm aware of how it works. I'm saying that the the cat should be by-passed until the cat is up to temp.
Also, the ashpan door should not be used to get a fire going. According to all the woodstove manufacturers.

The CDW comes with an underfire air inlet so is a different animal.. This stove will burn coal or wood and the reason it has underfire, secondary and cat air inlets..

Ray

 

[raybonz]

I noticed that you no longer have the CDW in your personals. How do you like Pacific Energy Alderlea T-5. I haven't visited this forum for a long, long time so I missed a lot I guess.

It's still in my signature.. The T5 works great and much easier and efficient than the CDW plus get easy 10+hr. burns.. Can't complain about the CDW for what I paid though..Where ya been hiding?

Ray

 

[imacheezhead]

Also, the ashpan door should not be used to get a fire going. According to all the woodstove manufacturers.​

The manufacturer put the bottom primary vent in the ash drawer door so opening the vent or the door is basically the same thing. Keeping the ashpan full is not recommended either, but there doesn't seem to be a problem with that here.

 

[raybonz]

The manufacturer put the bottom primary vent in the ash drawer door so opening the vent or the door is basically the same thing. Keeping the ashpan full is not recommended either, but there doesn't seem to be a problem with that here.

Unless someone has owned one the these stoves they will not get it lol.. Pretty much toss out the rule book and figure it out..

Ray

 

[imacheezhead]

It's still in my signature.. The T5 works great and much easier and efficient than the CDW plus get easy 10+hr. burns.. Can't complain about the CDW for what I paid though..Where ya been hiding?

Ray

Oh I guess I just get these urges occasionally . I jump in and out of several forums and I always find them very informative.

Actually I was thinking of getting a new large CDW, but I've had so much luck with this one I decided to stay with it for now. It got down to 0 deg. and I was able to keep my furnace from turning on. (set for 69). I have a magic heat on it as well so that also helps a lot.

 

[imacheezhead]

Unless someone has owned one the these stoves they will not get it lol.. Pretty much toss out the rule book and figure it out..

Ray

I guess you're right about that. like you said, it's a learning curve. I'm not going to argue with someone that is having good luck with the way they do things. What I do, I've been doing for 25 years with the same stove and unless someone really convinces me, I'm gonna keep doing it the same way. If it ain't broke, don't fix it!

 

[webby3650]

Unless someone has owned one the these stoves they will not get it lol.. Pretty much toss out the rule book and figure it out..

Ray

I have owned one, and I sold it!

 

[sticks]

The primary air is on the side door. If you at the models that dont burn coal there is no control on the ash door. Do what you have to but that method will cook your grates and the frames around the glass.

 

[webby3650]

The manufacturer put the bottom primary vent in the ash drawer door so opening the vent or the door is basically the same thing. Keeping the ashpan full is not recommended either, but there doesn't seem to be a problem with that here.

The air dial on the door was there because it was designed to also burn coal, coal needs air from below to burn properly.
Leaving the ashpan full isn't gonna cause any problems at all. It might prevent some though.

 

[imacheezhead]

The primary air is on the side door. If you at the models that dont burn coal there is no control on the ash door. Do what you have to but that method will cook your grates and the frames around the glass.

I guess 25 years with the same stove means nothing! It's okay, it's just a discussion, I'm not mad. If I were mad, I'd vent on Facebook!

 

[imacheezhead]

I have owned one, and I sold it!

I Googled that stove of yours. It's very attractive! I was also thinking of getting a non-cat stove, but I read that they need parts replacing in the secondary burn area quite often and that scared me away. Any thoughts on that?

 

[raybonz]

The primary air is on the side door. If you at the models that dont burn coal there is no control on the ash door. Do what you have to but that method will cook your grates and the frames around the glass.

We are talking about the old models (mine was FA264CCL) and they could do wood or coal and they had 3 air knobs.. primary, secondary and cat..

Ray

 

[webby3650]

We are talking about the old models (mine was FA264CCL) and they could do wood or coal and they had 3 air knobs.. primary, secondary and cat..

Ray

Thats what sticks was saying, The air on the ashpan isn't the primary air, it was there to use when burning coal, not wood.